Resources for the debunker

So now you're endorsing one of Greening's old theories, that he's probably retracted since? There have at least been actual lab tests that completely debunked him, showing that molten aluminum and rust will NOT cause a spontaneous thermite reaction.

I don't think you're reading up on the articles you're posting, not all of us. If you knew the back-story behind Greening and the 911myths.com site (basically a bunch of people posting on forums just like you and me, except running a website), you probably wouldn't be spamming them.

Originally posted by bsbray11
So now you're endorsing one of Greening's old theories, that he's probably retracted since? There have at least been actual lab tests that completely debunked him, showing that molten aluminum and rust will NOT cause a spontaneous thermite reaction.

I don't think you're reading up on the articles you're posting, not all of us. If you knew the back-story behind Greening and the 911myths.com site (basically a bunch of people posting on forums just like you and me, except running a website), you probably wouldn't be spamming them.

He's probably retracted? Huh? When did he retract. I'm using 911myths as a secondary source to provide 1st hand sources. All of his discussions into the 911 myths are backed up with sources. I just use that site as an easy database to collect first hand sources.

Seriously man, if there is anything in particular that you disagree with, post what you disagree, be specific, so I can respond.

You seem to like this, WELL IT'S BEEN DEBUNKED ALREADY SO LIVE WITH IT type response. I don't believe it's been debunked until I'm shown where it was debunked.

Doesn't really matter whether or not he ever retracted it, because he was proven wrong with this:




If you don't understand that, then read his paper.


And you keep telling us to look into these ridiculous web pages.

Hey look, you posted a picture without any thing else and you expect me to believe you.

You don't understand the significance of the picture because you haven't read the very links you're telling me to. If you're more than 14 or 15 years old, open up the PDF, and try to wade through it, before ramming it down all of OUR throats as if you know what it says and you're somehow sure that it's right. You have no idea what in the hell you're posting about, very literally.

Greening said a thermite reaction started naturally when molten aluminum from the airplanes contacted rust on the steel columns. Thermite is supposed to be made of finely ground aluminum and iron oxide particles, and then lit with a magnesium strip or etc., something very high-temperature. The picture is of Dr. Steven Jones pouring molten aluminum over iron oxide and observing the fact that no reaction results, just as anyone who reads over the chemistry behind thermite reactions could tell Dr. Greening, who's supposed to be a Ph.D. chemist himself. Steven Jones is well-known a Ph.D. physicist, formerly Professor of Physics at BYU.

[edit on 6-8-2007 by bsbray11]

Would the presence of other materials have an affect on the color of the molten material? Like..aluminum mixed in with computer monitors, carpets, drapes, papers, toner catridges etc..... if so.... did Dr. Jones do this?

Why do you guys try so hard to cling to junk science when it's on "your side", but pretend to absolutely deplore it when you're arguing with people like me? It's too obvious how hard you're trying to draw lines and make this a pissing contest. You don't care who's actually right; you don't even know what you're talking about!

And no, none of that matters. A thermite reaction is a eutectic reaction and none of those things thrown in would change that or do anything but make it harder for the particles to make contact with each other.

[edit on 6-8-2007 by bsbray11]

My question to all these "debunkers".

How can you believe that those "articles" have been peer reviewed? When not even the author has had access to the evidence? Then how would someone else review it without the evidence themselves?

And to further the complication, how did all these engineers do finite element analysis without knowing all the elements? If you don't know what I mean, look into the structural documents and see if you can get ahold of them.

I think bsbray11 has hit on something of importance. I think cchaic is a young person. This person is energetic and combative. That's a good thing. I would suggest to any young person though to be wary of the pronouncements of scientists. The whole history of science is an unending overthrow of one received "truth" after another. I'm sorry I can't cite the exact source but I read somewhere that Scientific American magazine actually debunked the Wright brothers heavier than air flight. Scientists and science are not the final court of appeal on anything. Science is usually playing a game of catch up with unscientific observation.

I managed to find some backup for my points. The quotes are from:

befreetech.com...

The Wright Brothers were derided as frauds for years after they were regularly doing flying demonstrations. The reporters, scholars and critics refused to attend the demonstrations, since they knew heavier than air flight was impossible. One of the better biographies of the Wright Brothers was written by Fred C. Kelly as an apology for calling them frauds and refusing to attend the demonstrations.

“Scientists always scoff at new ideas, and claim that they are 'impossible.' Mainstream scientists of the day always miss the boat for new technology. You might think people would have learned this by now. The case of the Wright brothers among many others, proves to be highly enlightening. They were debunked by Scientific American as frauds. The fact that the Wright brothers had given public demonstrations to thousands, did not change the minds of anyone at Scientific American magazine. Because they all knew for a fact, that heavier than air travel was against all the known laws of physics, and would not be possible for 5000 years. After all, 'if it sounds too good to be true, __ ____ __ ____’ (Fill in the blanks, if you know the lyrics.). So heavier than air travel must be impossible.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein

"There is not the slightest indication that nuclear energy will ever be obtainable. It would mean that the atom would have to be shattered at will." Albert Einstein

Thomas Edison - abused inventors like Tesla and put his name on their work. See what Edison has to say... "They never will try to steal the phonograph. It is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Edison (c. 1915)

"Fooling around with alternating current is just a waste of time. Nobody will use it, ever." Thomas Edison, 1889

"Man won't fly for a thousand years." - Wilbur Wright, to brother Orville after a disappointing flying experiment (1901)

"Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible."
Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895

"X-rays are a hoax." -Lord Kelvin, engineer and physicist (c. 1900)

[edit on 7-8-2007 by ipsedixit]

Originally posted by ipsedixit
Scientists and science are not the final court of appeal on anything. Science is usually playing a game of catch up with unscientific observation.

Good point. And to further illustrate it. Untill the advent of the super speed shutter video that we can now take, scientists couldn't figure out (with mathematics) how a bumble bee could fly. Now, since they can see the rapid movement of the wings and their direction of flap, they have figured out that it is because of the way it flaps it's wings.

Also, people thought apes were a myth until about 100 years ago.

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
Would the presence of other materials have an affect on the color of the molten material? Like..aluminum mixed in with computer monitors, carpets, drapes, papers, toner catridges etc..... if so.... did Dr. Jones do this?

If Al is hot enough to be molten... all of the materials you have listed would be burned off very quickly bu the molten Al.

Toner Cartridges... Digging...

[edit on 7-8-2007 by Pootie]