Think about this?

Change how things are portrayed in the Media!!!! that is really the only way.

my only suggestion is to bombard the media and your local and state governments with your opinions.

If enough people complain, the minority will become the majority.

The majority is only the majority because they are blinded by the media. For anything to change, the media will have change first.

Do we have any super-rich ATS Members who could perhaps BUY over one of the Media outlets???? I got approximately $2.50 in my pockets right now that I will gladly contribute to the cause.

Thats a great idea WW, however it will take a very large effort to accomplish that. I remember contacting CNN in regards to something published about the Jessica Lynch case in an effort to have them quit building up her hero stautus 3 or 4 times a day, contacted them 5 or 6 times, never got a reply or nothing.

I think it would take more than Individual emails from one person. no offence tracer, but I feel that individual emails with opposing opinions to the accepted "norm" are quickly lumped and disregarded into a category "as just junk from a hippie/liberal/feminist/etc, etc"

However if, let's say "3000" people emailed CNN or FOX with the same "subject title" and expressed their views, CNN and others will have a harder time dismissing it as "one wierdo"

I would think the hardest part of my theory is organizing people to work together and do things together in MASS!!!

I'm curious to know EXACTLY what freedoms of yours have been taken away
Besides health issues like smoking in public and stuff like that....what have ANY OF YOU ACTUALLY LOST????

On the roadblock thing--I'm glad to see someone else noticing about roadblocks. They always do roadblocks and checkpoints here whenever they think they've got enough on a guy to bust him for meth manufacturing, trafficking, or dealing. This means every person on any given stretch of highway is pulled over, identified, and has every conceivable hiding place in their car searched for drugs. I don't think a single one of those stops has yielded a drug arrest in this county. I can see using the roadblocks in the event of a carchase or a manhunt to minimize the risk or injury or death to the officers or bystanders, but I don't think that the random ones prove a thing except we have money to flash and trash.

The media, my other baby. I also have tried contacting several media outlets in an effort to make them at least speak the half-truth. I contacted my local NBC and CBS affiliates and Larry King during the whole Jessica Lynch thing, and nothing was done. Actually, when I called my local NBC, they assured me that my opinion meant nothing when they put me on hold and I got the "we value your opinion" answering machine set up. I wrote in to the opinion column in the Register and started a flamewar with people all across the state because I told things they don't want to hear, but the Opinion column is the only part of the paper that does it.

Originally posted by Venus
I'm curious to know EXACTLY what freedoms of yours have been taken away

Besides health issues like smoking in public and stuff like that....what have ANY OF YOU ACTUALLY LOST????

Free speech is an endangered species right now. Have you heard of free-speech zones? Apparently, those are the only places a person can voice their opinion if they disagree with the government. I guess I was still under the assumption that the entire country was a freespeech zone. By free speech, I'm not going to take some moron's standpoints and say that I can say anything I want whenever I want, even if it is slander. By free speech I mean a valid arguement against actions the government takes but the citizens think are wrong.

Right to privacy has been in danger for years. Section 216 of the PATRIOT Act of 2001 allowes all phone calles to be monitored and recorded without a warrant or notification. The government has been trying to get absolute, supreme control over the web since 1998 when they first proposed that they would be allowed unlimited access to look at the files, folders, programs, and surfing history of every internet capable computer in the US. If I'm not mistaken, the PATRIOT Act also allows search and siezure without a warrant or probable cause.

These things may not seem like a big deal, but I think that they are. Take away the free speech, right to privacy, the no search and siezure without cause thing, add a national religion and tax the # out of us, you have the British types that we fought for the right to speek freely and be private over 200 years ago.

[Edited on 13-1-2004 by kaoszero]

Venus, I really dont think its a question of what any of us have actually lost, but its more like the slow or should I say fast erosion of our Constituitional Rights being thrown out the window. Did you by any chance hear yesterday about people being color-coded to fly on an airplane? Read the Patriot Act lately? Tried to buy a firearm lately? These are all things that are changing the freedoms as we have known them to be, and each day they seem to be changing. You maybe happy with the way things are going in regards to these things,I am not.

Originally posted by Venus
I'm curious to know EXACTLY what freedoms of yours have been taken away

Besides health issues like smoking in public and stuff like that....what have ANY OF YOU ACTUALLY LOST????

I lost the freedom to walk into airports, seaports and other government buildings without being scrutinized, because of the color of my skin. I travel alot and it never fails....I am always selected for additional searches. I stopped wearing underwire bras, jewelry, shoes with big heels, and belts so that I don't trigger the metal detector, but even when the metal detector doesn't go off, I am still subjected to pat downs and searches.

I lost the freedom to dress in traditional ethnic wear because I am automatically assumed to be "ARAB" and have to face stares and whispers behind my back even though I am not an "ARAB"

I lost the freedom to speak my mind freely for fear of being considered "UNPATRIOTIC".

Is that enough or do you need more details on freedoms lost??? Do remember, Just because you are not personally affected in your daily life, doesn't mean you cannot fight for the rights of those who are.

Originally posted by worldwatcher

I lost the freedom to walk into airports, seaports and other government buildings without being scrutinized, because of the color of my skin.

I lost the freedom to dress in traditional ethnic wear because I am automatically assumed to be "ARAB" and have to face stares and whispers behind my back even though I am not an "ARAB"

Good points, worldwatcher. I also can't walk freely through an airport, I couldn't go to the airport to see my parents off when they went to Australia earlier in the month. I've also stopped wearing metal on my person, but I still get stares and whispers because I look like a threat, although I am not an "arab".

I also can no longer wear my robes when I go to a gathering of people of my religion *which I'm not going to name here*, because most people see the robes and assume we're part of some Islamic Jihad group. Our religion is in no way related to Islam, or any of the other western-world religions, but to the closed minded, we appear to be terrorists.

I lost the right to be a non-Christian. This war on terror is one of those other things that Bush advertised as it was God's plan this, God's plan that. In doing so, he advocated Christianity to such a degree that in my area it's either convert or pretend just to keep from being assaulted verbally or physically.

PS-sorry for truncating your post worldwatcher, I just nabbed the points that I wanted to hit on too.

Ya know, the last thing I had to ask the government's permission was for my handgun purchase, 3 years ago. I have never hit a drug roadblock... ever. Maybe your county is full of druggies and the roadblock is a desperate attempt to curb the problem?

Just the other day I said taxes were too high in my state. No Gestappo came in and took me away.

I got on airplane and went to the Carribbean for my honeymoon in August. I didn't need to get permission to leave. My bags were searched as I left the island, but if a customs official looking through my unmentionables means there is a less likely chance of my plane blowing up, search away!

Don't like what your government is doing? Vote against the current people and get new ones. If they keep winning, that means more people agree with them then disagree and you are in the minority. That's how Democracy works.

I know the American Government isn't perfect and has done some crappy things in the past (American Indians, Slavery, Japanese internment camps in WWII, to name a few) but what government is perfect?

Great points WW, if they are not freedoms lost then I dont know what is! On the roadblocks kaozero, I think that they should be ruled totally illegal, except as you menioned in the case of pursuit of an actual criminal. I understand the deal check for drunks, look for illegal autos and stuff like that, but that makes no sense, let let the police get out on the road and watch for these things, they dont need no checkpoint to do it, but we all know the real reason for these checkpoints, to get us used to the fact we are not free to move about as we please!Thats my opinion on checkpoints!

Originally posted by Gadget

Don't like what your government is doing? Vote against the current people and get new ones. If they keep winning, that means more people agree with them then disagree and you are in the minority. That's how Democracy works.

I know the American Government isn't perfect and has done some crappy things in the past (American Indians, Slavery, Japanese internment camps in WWII, to name a few) but what government is perfect?

True that their is no perfect government. However, people who are against Bush and his polices were NEVER in the minority, Bush lost the popular election. It was only they second time in US history that a president lost the popular election and won the electorates election, but it happened anyways. In November, I'd say expect a lot of us to vote against him.

EDIT******
I look forward to rejoining this thread later in the day, I have to do a few things now. Keep posting, a lot of good posts are happening in this thread.

[Edited on 13-1-2004 by kaoszero]

Gadget, there seems to be a problem with voting in this country, I mean I cant prove one way or another about the voting fraud, but enough material exists out there to make one question where their vote is going. And if this is true then how do we vote someone in or out of office?

I will agree that the whole Bush losing the popular election but still winning leaves a bad taste in one's mouth, but that what the COnstitution says. The Popular Election is nothing more than an opinion poll. The founding fathers didn't feel we were smart enough to elect such an important position. And judging by such low voter turnout in most places, can't say as I blame them sometimes. Too many people seem to not care sometimes.

Originally posted by worldwatcher

Originally posted by Venus
I'm curious to know EXACTLY what freedoms of yours have been taken away

Besides health issues like smoking in public and stuff like that....what have ANY OF YOU ACTUALLY LOST????

I lost the freedom to walk into airports, seaports and other government buildings without being scrutinized, because of the color of my skin. I travel alot and it never fails....I am always selected for additional searches. I stopped wearing underwire bras, jewelry, shoes with big heels, and belts so that I don't trigger the metal detector, but even when the metal detector doesn't go off, I am still subjected to pat downs and searches.

I lost the freedom to dress in traditional ethnic wear because I am automatically assumed to be "ARAB" and have to face stares and whispers behind my back even though I am not an "ARAB"

I lost the freedom to speak my mind freely for fear of being considered "UNPATRIOTIC".

Is that enough or do you need more details on freedoms lost??? Do remember, Just because you are not personally affected in your daily life, doesn't mean you cannot fight for the rights of those who are.

My deepest apologies BUT....WHOSE FAULT IS THAT? These freedoms were not taken away to hurt you or me....they are to PROTECT ALL OF US. Same with every other example given here......NOTHING has been taken away from any of us to hurt or control....just sounds like more of the same old "poor me, poor me crap"

Originally posted by tracer
the real reason for these checkpoints, to get us used to the fact we are not free to move about as we please!Thats my opinion on checkpoints!

YOU NEED HELP DUDE!

Originally posted by Venus

Originally posted by worldwatcher

Originally posted by Venus
I'm curious to know EXACTLY what freedoms of yours have been taken away

Besides health issues like smoking in public and stuff like that....what have ANY OF YOU ACTUALLY LOST????

I lost the freedom to walk into airports, seaports and other government buildings without being scrutinized, because of the color of my skin. I travel alot and it never fails....I am always selected for additional searches. I stopped wearing underwire bras, jewelry, shoes with big heels, and belts so that I don't trigger the metal detector, but even when the metal detector doesn't go off, I am still subjected to pat downs and searches.

I lost the freedom to dress in traditional ethnic wear because I am automatically assumed to be "ARAB" and have to face stares and whispers behind my back even though I am not an "ARAB"

I lost the freedom to speak my mind freely for fear of being considered "UNPATRIOTIC".

Is that enough or do you need more details on freedoms lost??? Do remember, Just because you are not personally affected in your daily life, doesn't mean you cannot fight for the rights of those who are.

My deepest apologies BUT....WHOSE FAULT IS THAT? These freedoms were not taken away to hurt you or me....they are to PROTECT ALL OF US. Same with every other example given here......NOTHING has been taken away from any of us to hurt or control....just sounds like more of the same old "poor me, poor me crap"

wait a minute....forget the airport stuff for just one second...

BUT CAN YOU TELL ME HOW THE OTHER REASONS ARE TO "PROTECT ALL OF US"?????

SINCE WHEN IS TAKING AWAY FREE SPEECH A PROTECTION? WHO IS IT REALLY PROTECTING????

WHO IS GETTING HURT BY ME WEARING ETHNIC CLOTHES? SHOULD EVERYONE WHO DRESS IN ETHNIC WEAR JUST ACCEPT ALIENATION???

[Edited on 1-13-2004 by worldwatcher]

WW - Who said you couldn't wear ethnic clothes and who is stopping you from speaking?

[Edited on 1/13/2004 by Venus]

Venus, why do you need the government to protect you ? Me I dont need all the laws and bills they are passing, supposedly for our protections, I want my freedoms intact, as I am sure most other people do, if you buy into that line that these laws are to protect us , you may be the one who needs help. As for your statement that I need help, Could you please explain exacly why I need help? Oh I know, you must be one of those people who dont believe that their is anything like an NWO or that we will never see Martial Law in this country, Venus you may be the very one that needs help or should I say will need it one day when you little protected world comes crashing down around you.

Originally posted by Venus
WW - Who said you couldn't wear ethnic clothes and who is stopping you from speaking?

[Edited on 1/13/2004 by Venus]

No one is stopping me in the literal sense. Yes I still do wear my ethnic clothes at home and among relatives. However I am no longer free in the sense that when I wear these clothes on the streets,.....this is hard to explain to someone who has never felt it...but you have probably never been singled out because your skin color is the same as the "arabs" terrorists. At restuarants, conversations become quieter, the waiters hurry you up, everyone looks at you..

Most recent incident, an elder relative past away. We kept wake everynight for a week before her burial. Everyone who attended wore traditional ethnic clothes. On the day before the funeral, guess who shows up???? The cops and the feds!! not many just 4 guys in a dark suv. When they realized what was going on, they apologized and said someone called and said suspicious "arabs" were gathering every night for secret meetings.. AGAIN I AM NOT AN ARAB! Our clothes are not even the same style...jeez...anyway I am going ot on this..sorry.

maybe you don't understand but before 9/11 this never happened to me, ....so I have basically lost my freedom to be proud of my ethnicity...

but I guess in your thinking It's okay for people like me, who look a certain way or has a certain last name, to be profiled, stopped, questioned, harrassed, denied attorneys, kept in detention for however long John Ashcroft says, because we look a certain way.... and the freaking old lady down the block said we met in large groups....and it's our fault we look this way right?...poor me...but it's for my protection right?

sorry I can't touch the freedom of speech question, i'll get back to it, but I need to chill for a while..i'm hungry!


[Edited on 1-13-2004 by worldwatcher]