here's why violent crime is going through the roof

Originally posted by Liberal1984
The Real Reason Why Violent Crime Is Going Up...
Simple: We lack a draconian system of escalating prison sentences for repeat offenders. I have no problem with light sentences for first time offenders (except the most serious crimes life murder above).

Well, that's not really draconian... it's common sense. I think the statistics back i up - if you commit a crime, go to prison, clean up your act then you've probably learnt your lesson and will go back on the straight and narrow.

However, if you're released from prison and then re-offend, then surely that suggests you haven't understood why you went to prison in the first place and thus deserve to go back - taking into account that you've committed a crime in the past too. It stands to reason that these type of people are the most likely to re-offend again and again if they commit more than one crime.

Originally posted by ubermunche
While I know it's deeply unfashionable and almost tantamount to an admission of neo nazism to admit to reading the Mail or Express here's a little food for thought.

My post wasn't an attack on those papers in particular - simply a statement of British tabloid journalism in general (and perhaps British journalism as a whole). The Mirror, Sun, Mail, Express... not exactly the pinnacle of journalism, shall we say.

Originally posted by Liberal1984
We lack a draconian system of escalating prison sentences for repeat offenders

Blimey, I think we may be in some danger of all agreeing about that.

Blimey, I think we may be in some danger of all agreeing about that.

Well it took us all about a week to reach some kind of broad agreement but the politicians have remained in status FAFF about the issue for years.

And with yet more depressing regularity.

www.express.co.uk...

The same old story. The area has suffered from this kind of anti social targetting for years, the police do nothing, an innocent man has the temerity to confront them and......

No doubt they'll be out in a few years after getting the flimsiest manslaughter charge. I hope somome takes a gun to them all. F**k this, if no one else is going to put people's safety and right to live above these toe rags perceived right to do exactly as they please then I hope we all go vigilante. Scum each and every one.

The same old story. The area has suffered from this kind of anti social targetting for years, the police do nothing, an innocent man has the temerity to confront them and......

No doubt they'll be out in a few years after getting the flimsiest manslaughter charge. I hope somome takes a gun to them all. F**k this, if no one else is going to put people's safety and right to live above these toe rags perceived right to do exactly as they please then I hope we all go vigilante. Scum each and every one.

Always happens, The authorities do not do anything on community relations, until something like this happens. Sadly this is not new.
Nowadays alot more Teenagers/chavs, or gangs go around causing mayhem in towns cities up and down the country. The three involved should have the maximum sentence, imposed on them in found guilty. No Parolle either or Rehabilitation.

But knowing the UK Justice system, I agree with you They will be out in a couple of years, which I find absolutely disgusting. If they do not recieve the maximum sentence for this appalling murder. Then the UK justice system is a complete joke....


Here is another breaking story on BBC News:

2year Old Stabbed to Death

A toddler has been stabbed to death in a flat in east London. A woman in her 20s, thought to be the mother, was also found at the flat with stab wounds and was taken to hospital where she is in a serious condition.

This is dreadfull, no arrests havebeenmade so far. Lets hope the mother didnt do this.


[edit on 14-8-2007 by spencerjohnstone]

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
But knowing the UK Justice system, I agree with you They will be out in a couple of years, which I find absolutely disgusting. If they do not recieve the maximum sentence for this appalling murder. Then the UK justice system is a complete joke....

Here we are again, different scenario but a similar underlying set of problems apparently.

I'm not going to comment on what the police have or haven't done in the area because I simply don't know, although I do remember more than one recent thread here where the police were being roundly criticised for over reacting to kids who were causing a nuisance. Seems like they're damned if they do and damned if they don't sometimes.

What I would reiterate is that there is no question of receiving "the maximum sentence", there is only one sentence for murder by a juvenile which is indefinite detention with a minimum tariff to be set by the trial judge - i.e. the equivalent of an adult life sentence.

If they're found guilty that's what they'll get and I agree the tariff should be a long one.

Crime isn't "going through the roof" and neither is "violent crime".

This is just another sad example of the behavior which, thankfully, is not typical.

I remember much the same lurid headlines when Headmaster Philip Lawrence was murdered outside St George’s Roman Catholic school, Maida Vale, in 1995
(which is worth noting for those who want to try and politicise this & do the whole 'Labour's at fault, too soft in the last 10years, letting them all out.......er, I mean some selected few 2 weeks early; blah blah blah).

Middle-class middle-aged nice people are the least likely to be victim of crime (always has been the case).
You are more likely to be a victim of crime if you are unemployed and living in a council house or bedsit and are under 25.
FACT.
The “safest” people of all are old people.

Of course it's unacceptable and the guilty ought to be caught & sentenced appropriately.

posted by Liberal1984
I agree with timeless test about this sentence. If the girl had been the only one involved, then yeah 10 years would not be nearly enough. The fact is her boyfriend is the one who is really responsible and as he has got at least 25 years; frankly I’m extremely impressed (by English standards.) What I despise is when they say someone has got life and they let them out after 12.5 years on good behaviour.

Every crime is different. Every perpetrator is an individual. One size punishment does not fit all. The penal system needs to be flexible. Judges impose sentences on convicted persons based on objective criteria, within a given a range of punishments. In my home state of Kentucky, a common law state, murder is the premeditated, unlawful taking of human life without mitigating circumstances.

In Ky the crime of murder is a Class A Felony. The punishment range is 20 years to life in prison. Ky treats a life sentence as a 40 years sentence. The term “life” is more an historical artefact than a definite time period. First offenders are eligible for parole after serving 50% of their sentence. Before the 1980s, parole eligibility came after serving 20% of the sentence. Eligibility is not the equivalent of parole. In Ky, only 33% make parole on the first appearance before the Board. Another statute gives every prisoner 1 day off his or her sentence for every 30 days of good behavior.

My point? To assist guards in keeping internal order, prisoners must have some reward for staying out of trouble. If a ten year sentence meant serving 3,650 days, regardless, then you’d likely need to increase staff by 50%. It is economical to allow prisoners tv and equipped gyms. To keep the cells air conditioned. To have hot and cold running water. To serve decent food well prepared. To have clean bedding and laundered clothing. All of these amenities go towards keeping prisoners in good order. With fewer guards and other support staff required. It has nothing to do with being SOFT on crime. I think it is important to instill a sense of decency and fair play when dealing with persons held in confinement, too. But see Foot Note.

Finally, when a person is released before the end of his sentence, on parole, the time remaining on sentence is held over his head during the term of parole - five years in Ky - as an incentive to obey the Parole Officer and parole rules. Parole violations are not hard to prove. The process is considered an administrative proceeding. The standard of proof is “clear and convincing” (low) rather than “beyond a reasonable doubt” (high). Almost all parole violation hearings result in revocation and immediate return to the prison from which he or she was released. A good crime control tool.


Foot Note. I do not believe the perceived “sudden” rise in violent crime is an overnight phenomenon. The UK is about 20-25 years - one generation - behind the US. Our television programing is ghastly. Instead of tv films showing Florence - world’s greatest city? - Venice, Milan, Roma, Naples and so on about Italy, we get endless reruns of the Godfather series and the more recent Sopranos. I’m surprised the Italian-American Clubs do not sue!

On the virtues of war, I prefer Afrika Korps re-runs to the Battle of Stalingrad but I’d really rather see documentaries about Alexandria and Volgograd. My point is that 20% to 40% of American tv viewing time is violent and almost 100% paints violence as a viable alternative to resolve most problems. I cannot believe this 2,000 - 5,000 hours of viewing annually does not mold the viewer. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

[edit on 8/14/2007 by donwhite]