My Doubts About "God."

I am basically creating this thread for the sole purpose of getting some thoughts off my chest. If you want to comment, please feel free to do so.

People who read the F,S&T section know that I am a Christian, but what they may not know is that I have doubts like anyone else.

The doubts I have about God are never about his existence. Just like some people believe the universe has always existed, this is the same way I feel about God.

Now, the things I doubt about him are I sometimes doubt that he is a personal "God." If he is then there is no way I can explain why he allows such horrible atrocities to happen all the time. For example, The Holocaust.

How could he allow all that to happen if he is a personal God who care about us? Is it as simple as apathy?

Another thing is children who are born with all sorts of diseases and who born into a third world countries where they can't even get food or water.

Some people may write off certain things as "free will" but I think the above is a little beyond that.

What happens to those children is fate, they did not choose to be born that way. What is the purpose of their life if they don't even live past 8 years?

There are many more things I could write, but these are just a few of the things that make me doubt "God" is personal, loving, caring etc.



[edit on 31-7-2007 by thehumbleone]

Originally posted by thehumbleone
People who read the F,S&T section know that I am a Christian, but what they may not know is that I have doubts like anyone else.

The doubts I have about God are never about his existence. If he is then there is no way I can explain why he allows such horrible atrocities to happen all the time. For example, The Holocaust.

How could he allow all that to happen if he is a personal God who care about us?

Another thing is children who are born with all sorts of diseases and who born into a third world countries where they can't even get food or water.

You mention God in your post. Lots of people talk about and believe there is a God. You didn't mention Jesus. Jesus is God.

My first question to you is can you remember a moment when you made a confession of faith in Jesus Christ for salvation?

If not you need to do that.

As far as the evil and troubles in the world, we live in a world that has rejected God. As such man has made a mess of it. this proves without God we cannot build a utopia.

Tjhis world filled with death and destruction will be done away with at the return of jesus, so hang on day by day.

Originally posted by dbrandt

You mention God in your post. Lots of people talk about and believe there is a God. You didn't mention Jesus. Jesus is God.

Yeah, at the beginning I said i was a Christian. I believe Jesus was God, but I doubt him too sometimes.

My first question to you is can you remember a moment when you made a confession of faith in Jesus Christ for salvation?

Well, I was raised Catholic so I have always believed in Jesus. then when I was in about 10th grade I began to doubt him. After that I found faith again but i still waver in my faith sometimes.

As far as the evil and troubles in the world, we live in a world that has rejected God. As such man has made a mess of it. this proves without God we cannot build a utopia.

Tjhis world filled with death and destruction will be done away with at the return of jesus, so hang on day by day.

I would love to believe that dbrandt, I try my damnedest to, but it's getting harder everyday.

I wondered why my sons' leg was amputated because of cancer.
I wondered why his father was brutally murdered in B.C.
I wondered why everyone else gets to live in the big fancy homes while I clean them for a living.
The list goes on and on.

Humble, like you, I was raised Catholic, had more than my fair share of doubts, and even took up martial arts way back.

It's my faith, my belief, ME, BEING THE HUMBLE ONE or person. I acknowledge and respect a higher something that isn't what the eyes can see or ears can hear. Call me greedy, but there has to be MORE!

More to this life. More than a haulocost, more than your best friend that took his life, more than 911, My God...this can't be it!

Science is an extremely valuable thing to explain the world around us. I have a great respect for it. Believe me, I do. But, for all the things that science can't explain, there is faith. 2 complete opposites. They may never meet eye to eye, OR, one would compliment the other, down the road someday, when we have a better understanding of the universe at an intricate atomic level.

Until then, I don't honestly see the two playing nice-nice right now, because, well....look around you! Look at all the threads that started up concerning belief and non-belief. I'd hate to see these people 'live' in a room - they'd probably start name calling and all kinds of uncivil things. What a stinkin headache.

I rarely post in them now because sometimes I think that my opinion wouldnt mean a rats arse to others. I had to step back, stay away from the ATS board some days and come to grips with 'me'.

I remember some words from scripture: "Be in the world, but not of it". And I add to that: "Lest one go mad from all the maddness that surrounds him/her."

Someone told me this as well: "Man can count how many seeds in an apple, but only God can count the apples in a seed." This tells me that men and women, whether they choose to believe it or not, ARE limited in the way they perceive things in the world. I don't think anyone will be able to fully grasp lifes mysteries.

As I probably wrote in another thread: My faith in our Father in heaven has sustained me thus far. If it were different I probably wouldnt be typing to you right now. Who knows what would have happened.

Look at my signature below.

Humble keep your faith.

Thanks for the post Duckster. while I agree with the majority of it, there are some things that still bother me.

As I stated in my OP, I will always believe there is a God, but there are things I will doubt about God as well.

For example, I question his motives, I question what he thinks when all sorts of terrible things happen, I even question if he is truly "all-loving."

Do I sometimes question if Jesus was the son of God? Yes.

Do I believe there is an after-life? Yes, but then I question what that will be like.

Will it be heaven or everlasting torment? Why must there be everlasting torment?

Would a loving God do this? I don't know, but what I do know is that I have finally come to grips with the fact that I will probably never truly understand God.

Humble,

Live in the moment 'right here and now'. I've seen you post good advice to others, well...it's coming right back atcha buddy.

Tomorrow nevers comes. It's always 'today'. Tomorrow is out there somewhere taunting us. The past never truely comes back to visit us, except in our dreams and memories. Today is the only day we can truely count on.

Our faith taught us about the rewards and reprecusions that will happen when we die. If you are unsure if there is an afterlife (don't worry, alot of people ask the same question) then let it go. Let that notion go away from you. Just strive to be the best person you can be, for yourself and others. Focus on only that.

I think to myself from time to time - What would I want my friends and family to remember me by, after my time is spent on this world. "Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself."

Desiderata

Ask yourself this too. If god is all knowing and created the universe and everything in it, he wrote every single day of our lives, and knows where, and what we have done, are doing, and will do, why does he still punish us for our "sins"? For our actions? Did he not already know that we were going to sin? Did he not already know what we were going to do? If anything we should be honored for carrying out god's will. But yet, he still punish us for what he wrote out we would do.

Think about all of the criminals in the world. Rapists, molesters, thieves, murderes...etc. If God is supposed to be omniscient, then he already knew what these people were going to do. He desinged it that way, he created all of those crimes. And he created the victims. Yet, society still punishes these people. For what? For carrying out God's will? Think about it.

Thanks for the post Duckster.

I agree that all I can do is try to be the best person I can be.

Life and God are so mysterious that I will probably lose my mind trying to figure them out.

Once again, thanks for your posts, they are really uplifting and inspiring.

Souls, your post does not disprove "God" to me.

You are using the notion that this "God" is like the Christian God.

What if he isn't?

Many might laugh at this:

I am happiest when I look at the world through child-like or new eyes

For example:
*Walking through a garden; touching and smelling the plants and flowers - taking it ALL in. Smelling the air after the rain.
*Watching how a little baby interacts with the world. It's so beautiful.
*Reading an inspiring book. Seeing the world through the authors eyes.
*People watching. One time I saw a family say grace just before they ate their burgers at McDonalds. It was only a burger, but wow, they were greatful for whatever food was in front of them. Heck, I've seen my grandfather bless himself and say a prayer over a plate of beans.
*Being greatful for EVERYTHING; the good and the bad. Every nuance in our lives changes us when we graciously allow it.
*Thankful that I'm alive and give thanks to that wonderful spirit or force out there that has saw fit to allow me the experiences I have and to share with others.
*Thankful that I can cry. Yes cry. Crying is a form of cleansing in one respect. Releasing. Allowing the spirit within you to truely accept repentance and make it part of your life. Crying is great way to show pleasure. Never be afraid to cry.

Being greatful is probably the most important thing.

On earth as in heaven. If a father on earth gives a gift to an un-greatful child, fewer gifts will probably be given to that child in the future. Mabey, just like in heaven as well. If we are un-greatful what our Father gives us, perhaps the same can be said as well.

When I pray, and don't receive what I get, it doesn't mean that my prayers wern't heard. It just means, "Not now". I can look back at how many times I heard those words, and not too soon after I heard the words 'NOW!'. What I thought was good for me at the time, wasn't as good as the 'NOW' words.

Patience. Lovely little word. This can make or break peoples' spirits. We're in a fast-paced world that seems to be getting faster. "Me me me", "I want it NOW."

I don't want to keep up with the Jones; I've walked by too many beautiful things to see what's really important to me. I don't want to walk at anyone elses pace. Just my own. When I started walking at my own speed, WOW...am I ever greatful for the little things. How could I have ever missed them before??

I remember hearing or seeing somewhere about an Asian culture or philosophy..Dang..mabey you heard Humble? These people revered the tortise. This pretty slow moving creature lived for a long time. Mabey because it didn't get all riled up about life; stress didn't kill him, that's for sure.

How ever you perceive God, Humble, is your business and nobody elses. Be thankful that you have an 'awareness' about you. Things could be worse my friend, look at the people who are bed-ridden, mentally challenged, amputees, and so forth. God has seen fit to give them 'gifts' in their own right.


[edit on 1-8-2007 by TheDuckster]

[edit on 1-8-2007 by TheDuckster]

Originally posted by thehumbleone

My first question to you is can you remember a moment when you made a confession of faith in Jesus Christ for salvation?

Well, I was raised Catholic so I have always believed in Jesus.

I'm asking if there was a moment when you realized you have sinned and are seperated from God?

It appears the answer is no, so there is the problem. Accepting Christ as Savior is a decsion when faith is placed in Christ for the forgiveness of sin. That is made and then you confess that you believe Jesus took your sins upon Himself and took your punishment in your place.


www.gotquestions.org...

Originally posted by thehumbleone
Souls, your post does not disprove "God" to me.

You are using the notion that this "God" is like the Christian God.

What if he isn't?

True, my assumption is based on a "Christian" god, but the same thing applies to any other God created by the human imagination. The notion of God has been coming from generation to generation, based on religious beliefs, according to ancient texts written by primitive men.

Why is it that what you feel you interpret as a "God"? Look at the definition of God.

God most commonly refers to the deity worshipped by followers of monotheistic and monolatrist religions, whom they believe to be the creator and ruler of the universe.[1]

Theologians have ascribed a variety of attributes to the various conceptions of God. The most common among these include omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, perfect goodness, divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence. God has also been conceived as being incorporeal, a personal being, the source of all moral obligation, and the "greatest conceivable existent".[1] These attributes were all supported to varying degrees by the early Jewish, Christian and Muslim theologian philosophers, including Augustine of Hippo,[2] Al-Ghazali,[3] and Maimonides.[2] Many notable medieval philosophers developed arguments for the existence of God,[4] attempting to wrestle with the apparent contradictions implied by many of these attributes. Philosophers have developed several arguments for and against the existence of God.

en.wikipedia.org...

God /gɒd/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[god] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, god·ded, god·ding, interjection
–noun 1. the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
2. the Supreme Being considered with reference to a particular attribute: the God of Islam.
3. (lowercase) one of several deities, esp. a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.
4. (often lowercase) a supreme being according to some particular conception: the god of mercy.
5. Christian Science. the Supreme Being, understood as Life, Truth, Love, Mind, Soul, Spirit, Principle.
6. (lowercase) an image of a deity; an idol.
7. (lowercase) any deified person or object.
8. (often lowercase) Gods, Theater. a. the upper balcony in a theater.
b. the spectators in this part of the balcony.

–verb (used with object) 9. (lowercase) to regard or treat as a god; deify; idolize.
–interjection 10. (used to express disappointment, disbelief, weariness, frustration, annoyance, or the like): God, do we have to listen to this nonsense?


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[Origin: bef. 900; ME, OE; c. D god, G Gott, ON goth, Goth guth]

Click this link for more definitions.

Maybe, I don't understand what you interpret as "God". By all definitions, God is an all powerful entity, whom is omniscient, omnipotent, perfect. Please define what you feel as a "God".

Well, Humble, I understand.

However, I have come to the stark realization that we are all little more than ideas in the mind of God playing our individual roles. Yes, we all have a significant role we each play in the grand scheme of things, even though we think it insignificant.

You ask

What is the purpose of their life if they don't even live past 8 years?

Look at it this way, that child brought eight years of joy,laughter, pain and yes, sorrow to its parents life. Who is to say that the child's life was not as much about the child as it was about its parents? Perhaps that child's life and death will inspire one or both of the parents to do something great that they wouldn't have done otherwise.

Everything has rhyme and reason. I could get into the whole esoteric spiritual stuff, but I don't think that is what you need. Besides, you and I don't always see eye to eye on spiritual matters anyway.

Beautifully put Speaker. I know of families that have cared for children with profound disabilities and the parents have growb spiritually to new dimensions. We cannot question God from our own limited point of view.

Imagine that a poor fishing family has a boat which they need to maintain their living. One day the boat sinks. Is it tragedy? Is God unfair? Or are all the boats going to be commandeered by the ruler of the country for a petty war?

The war ends, other boats are lost. The family's boat is brought up from the river bed, patched up and then reused to make their living once again because they had placed their faith in God.

Yes, I know it is a poor example but we cannot see from a 'Global/metacognitive' point of view from our limitations. As for the Free will argument, my personal opinion is that there are metaphysicals Laws of nature out there and that bullies oppressors and murderers cannot hope for peace of mind.

A believer will have doubts and rightly so. Question, question and question until your mind is at ease humbleone.

TheDuckster you are right, I should count my blessings and be thankful for the things I do have.

SpeakerofTruth, your post has helped me see things from a different perspective, thanks for helping me understand.


Heronumber0 Thanks for your reassuring words.


Thanks to all who replied to my, you have helped me see things from a different perspective.

You're welcome, Humble. I help when and where I can.