Mexican activist attempts to burn American Flag-key word "attempts"

Originally posted by Teutonic47
If I saw someone try to burn the flag I would first take the flag away from their dirty hands and then proceed to kick their ass - ... but I would kick his ass nonetheless.

another tough guy folks.
all i can say his bwuahahahahah to all these posts like this.

you guys will just never get it...i hope i never run into some bad mugs like you.....

I AM IN APOLOGIES AS I have not read any thing on this thread just thought I would throw my 2 cents in ... There were kids that got out of school and marched in protest down the Freakin Highway not to long back .. A bunch of hispanic kids that have family in Mexico ... Marching because their relatives over here illegally got thier jobs taken away making them go back to Hauling and Transporting .... of well You guess what back here ... To even further influence our younger generation that is gradually sliding in a Downward spiral.

Originally posted by Boondock78

Originally posted by Teutonic47
If I saw someone try to burn the flag I would first take the flag away from their dirty hands and then proceed to kick their ass - ... but I would kick his ass nonetheless.

another tough guy folks.
all i can say his bwuahahahahah to all these posts like this.

you guys will just never get it...i hope i never run into some bad mugs like you.....

You just do not get it!
Just because freedom of speech is in the constitution it does not specifically mean that the flag is nothing more than a piece of cloth that can be burned at will by Americans or illegal invaders.

The American flag burning is not a form of speech it is an action of anger toward our country. Standing on a soapbox shouting is speech.

Now for some reason I do not see our founding fathers saying
"Let him burn the flag if he wants its what makes this country great!"

I'm sure they had something else in mind when freedom of speech was thought up. Freedom of speech is used to much for things that it does not pertain to.

Hell the logic of flag burning covered under free speech is like saying I can run up and down the streets naked and piss on the white house lawn. But you see those freedoms that would normally be covered under freedom of speech are trumped by local laws.

So why cant the flag burning be covered under local laws also. To some people its tremendously important.

To the people that are saying that
"its just one more freedom taken away!" ,
"we might as well live in Nazi Germany"

I'm not saying shoot someone on sight for burning the flag. I'm saying at least frown upon it or fine them diligently for burning without a permit or do something appropriate to protect our heritage.

And if it was just a flag there would not have been so much fuss over the Georgia state flag by the African Americans. The point is ALL flags mean something to someone and pompass ass disrespecting people try to cause turmoil and anger by burning the flag. Its a form of hatred.

[edit on 2-8-2007 by Digital_Reality]

I can’t help but get a little worked up when the freedom of speech card is played in every instance where people do something THEY feel is freedom of speech. Its all about interpretation, much like the bible the US constitution has been interpreted to mean pretty much what anyone with an agenda wants it to mean. Freedom of speech people, doesn’t mean freedom to act or freedom to do anything you want and then claim it’s my right. This guy wasn’t speaking and he said nothing, he acted by trying to flame the flag of the country he came to. He could have sat on that street and yelled to the top of his lungs, how he hated or disrespected America all he wanted to, and he would have been well with in his rights to do so.

However the minute he acted out his frustration it no longer becomes freedom of speech, it becomes disrespectful to the country that gave him the opportunity to make a good life for himself. So It really gets me when people use the freedom of speech scapegoat to justify everything they do. It appears that the first amendment has been transformed into a loop hole for those who wish to further their own agenda.

en.wikipedia.org...

I included this link to show the transformation of the US Flag. The history behind the flag should be more than enough to show its importance through out the history of this nation. In fact many other countries have similar looking flags to the US flag. Why, because the US flag stands for something, always has and always will. It stands for freedom, democracy and sacrifice and independence from tyranny. Those who can’t see the importance of the US flag IMO just don’t get what it stands for and or probably just don’t care. And that’s ok because that IS protected by the constitution for sure.

Its like the old saying goes opinions are like assholes and everyone has one including me.


[edit on 2-8-2007 by geemony]

Originally posted by geemony
However the minute he acted out his frustration it no longer becomes freedom of speech, it becomes disrespectful to the country that gave him the opportunity to make a good life for himself.

Bottom line? The Supreme Court disagrees with this.

But you see those freedoms that would normally be covered under freedom of speech are trumped by local laws.

Wrong.

Constitutional law trumps all other laws, local, state, and federal.
No political entity in the United States can pass any law that does not pass Constitutional muster.

I find it funny that so many "superpatriot" types have no idea how our country's legal & political systems even work, and are so eager to subvert the very things that make this country different from some third world totalitarian hellhole.

[edit on 8/2/07 by xmotex]

Originally posted by Digital_Reality

You just do not get it!

Just because freedom of speech is in the constitution it does not specifically mean that the flag is nothing more than a piece of cloth that can be burned at will by Americans or illegal invaders.

The American flag burning is not a form of speech it is an action of anger toward our country. Standing on a soapbox shouting is speech.

I'm saying at least frown upon it or fine them [edit on 2-8-2007 by Digital_Reality]

i get it perfectly. as myself, intrepid, and several others haev explained and sourced for you, the SUPREME COURT states that it IS freedom of speech. so, YOU can have your PERSONAL opinions all you want. you want to look at it as an act of war, cool man. i can't stop you.
the flag means many things to many people. i know. some people hold the flag in high value. i know.
thing is, it matters very little to me. why does it matter very little? cause it is not my problem they can not keep their emotions in check.
by my afforded rights, rather you agree or not, i am allowed to burn a flag and you are NOT allowed to physically stop me, or take MY flag....
that has been made clear.

you want to stand there and frown and excercise your rights to free speech by telling me you think i am this or that and i shouldn't be doing it, fine..THAT is your right.

i am talking about the tough guy types in here that are ready to kick some ass if they see someone burning a flag. i think they(the so called patriots that feel that way) are at the least, hypocrites.
i am not talking about a person who expresses his distaste for such an action or even uses words against it or holds a protest sign...you have no rights to put your hands on others.
that is what i am getting at.
these tough guy types attach so much emotion cause ole grand dad died in WWII that they feel like it is a direct slap in the face to them and/or their pops and/or the country. they can 'feel' this way all they want.
that does not include violence.

if these patriots were truly about what the US 'stands for' then they would not be so willing to kick some butt and face the penalty...
i think that is a load of crap and people that feel like that, worry me far more than someone that feels it is needed to burn the flag in protest, whatever they are protesting.

see, there are 'victimless crimes'..in this case, burning the flag is not a crime but for the sake if this conversation only, i will buy that it is. IF it is(which it is not), then it is a victimless crime and unless you're a man of the law, it's not effecting you, you still have no rights to hit the person and/or take his flag.
either way you slice it, thats wrong.

your opinion don't trump the courts my friend....it is valid though.
i don't agree with many, many laws but i either obey them or break them knowing i will face the punishment....what i do does not include theft and battery though.

Originally posted by xmotex

I find it funny that so many "superpatriot" types have no idea how our country's legal & political systems even work, and are so eager to subvert the very things that make this country different from some third world totalitarian hellhole.

[edit on 8/2/07 by xmotex]

i find it funny(and disturbing at the same time) as well.
i don't know the background of every super patriot in this thread but i would wager that they are ex military or their immediate male family members were.

i cna imagine the conversations about duty and all that.
why?

my step father is a military man. ex navy and let me tell you, he follow is blind. when i turned 18, HE turned in my selective service card for me cause HE feels it is ones duty to serve.(he served, his dad served, all 3 of his bio sons are serving right now)...

the thing that comes to mind about not knowing what is going on is something my mom told me yesterday. now, he is a mailman and they have a union. the union is backing kasanich(sp) for president, so of course, my step dad is too. why? cause the post office union is backing him...he knows nothing else about it.
when the debates come on, he goes to watch dirty jobs.

my grandfather served. to this day, he, my mom and i will get into hardcore debates about politics and war and things like this.
with the bellowing voice 'of your country calls you, you go...blah blah'..

i guess what i am getting at is i just have a sneaking feeling that pretty much their whole lives, they heard these things.

i always think back to full metal jacket with the ponding it into their heads.

'marines are not allowed to die without permission'
the flag means this and that'

you know? and it is just pounded and pounded in there, and you feel this great 'whatever' towards the flag, and you don't really know why....

i unno...maybe i smoked too much

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by geemony
However the minute he acted out his frustration it no longer becomes freedom of speech, it becomes disrespectful to the country that gave him the opportunity to make a good life for himself.

Bottom line? The Supreme Court disagrees with this.

Bottom line, the Supreme Court is, wait for it, it's coming, oh yes, it's coming............

WRONG!!!

I am about tired of even responding on this thread. Some of you seem content to see your country disrespected in the name of "free speech." I'm not... If I am ever around to see such an event and I am able to get to the person that is committing such an act he will be receiving a "free" fist sandwich with his so-called "free speech."

America, yeah, there are those who would see your disrespect with impunity and yeah, even your destruction... But the man that will resurrect America will soon arise...America will be back with a rageful vengeance. It's coming.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
But the man that will resurrect America will soon arise...America will be back with a rageful vengeance. It's coming.

Hitler?

Cause, you know, that's kinda how he got into power into Germany.

Appealing to people's nationalist emotions, promising that "Germany's enemies" would be punished, and all that.

He's not on the ballot but there's always write-in's...

Originally posted by xmotex

Hitler?

Cause, you know, that's kinda how he got into power into Germany.

Appealing to people's nationalist emotions, promising that "Germany's enemies" would be punished, and all that.

He's not on the ballot but there's always write-in's...

xmotex, well.... Unfortunately, America is putting and has put itself in such a position where it's going to take a firebrand to ever pull it out. Otherwise, we, as americans, might as well pack it up and head to the house because the ball game is over. If you know about what led to the fall of the Roman Empire and the current situation in America, there are startling similarities.

It is going to take a pretty powerful person to wake most Americans out of their slumber.



[edit on 2-8-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
I am about tired of even responding on this thread. Some of you seem content to see your country disrespected in the name of "free speech." I'm not... If I am ever around to see such an event and I am able to get to the person that is committing such an act he will be receiving a "free" fist sandwich with his so-called "free speech."

.

no. some of actually believe in free speech.

since you're one of the though patriots that will give a knuckle sammy[/trembling] i will say now that i have a person to direct this to...
people that think and claim to or would act just like you are the people that worry me. i am afraid that people like you will trample on our rights.

turn it around a bit.
if your son was doing something that was within his rights to do and someone else came up and gave him a 'fist sandwich' would you just brush it off?
is there a list of things that would warrant a 'fist sandwich'?
how does it work?

screw the supereme court, i want to hear you speak the truth...

If you know about what led to the fall of the Roman Empire and the current situation in America, there are startling similarities.

Imperial overstretch? That we've got

Hyperinflation? Nope.

Barbarian invasions? Nope.

Civil wars? Nope.

Corrupt leaders enriching themselves at the taxpayers expense? Oh yes, certainly.

For more detail: Fall of the Roman Empire

Originally posted by xmotex

If you know about what led to the fall of the Roman Empire and the current situation in America, there are startling similarities.

Imperial overstretch? That we've got

Hyperinflation? Nope.

Barbarian invasions? Nope.

Civil wars? Nope.

Corrupt leaders enriching themselves at the taxpayers expense? Oh yes, certainly.

For more detail: Fall of the Roman Empire

Ahem, you're forgetting the anything goes mentality that exists in this nation today. Thank ya.

Originally posted by Boondock78

turn it around a bit.
if your son was doing something that was within his rights to do and someone else came up and gave him a 'fist sandwich' would you just brush it off?
is there a list of things that would warrant a 'fist sandwich'?
how does it work?

screw the supereme court, i want to hear you speak the truth...

I'll be honest here. I will... I probably wouldn't just brush it off.

Ahem, you're forgetting the anything goes mentality that exists in this nation today.

Which, assuming that such a thing is true, has all of jack squat to do with the fall of The Roman Empire.

If anything, the Roman Empire was morally a lot "looser" at the height of it's power than it was during it's fall.

Look it up.



[edit on 8/2/07 by xmotex]

Originally posted by xmotex

If anything, the Roman Empire was morally a lot "looser" at the height of it's power than it was during it's fall.

Look it up.



[edit on 8/2/07 by xmotex]

Really? Interesting assertion...

This is how Rome fell. First a vibrant empire comprised of wealthy citizens was reduced to an aristocracy. Then that decadent, impoverished empire was overcome by external enemies.

REally now

But besides our public works, the United States shares other, more disturbing similarities with the Roman Empire.

In the early Roman period the curials were the backbone of society. These were middle class landowners who could vote, and fought in the legions during times of war. By the end of the Empire, the curials had been reduced to the status of serfs. Wealth was concentrated in the hands of a few landowners, and the curials worked the land for them.

The Fall of the Roman Empire can be traced to the demise of the republican values that created it. In modern terms we can compare this to the death of our middle class. Our country was founded not just on Democratic principles, but the idea that the people were the owners of the country.

The first Americans were predominantly small farmers who owned their land, (with the exception of the black slaves, of course). In early American history just as in Rome, voting and military service where the duties of citizenship, and ownership of property was a right. As industrialization eclipsed agriculture, rural farmers became urban factory workers. But the goal of life in America has always been the same, to own a house, buy a car, in short, to live the American dream.

Over the past twenty five years, the ability of the average American to live that dream has all but disappeared. Per capita income continues to climb only because a small number of Americans have grown much wealthier. Incomes for the working poor and middle class Americans have stagnated, and even declined. The average American is increasingly a renter, not an owner.

Twenty years ago a high school graduate in Akron Ohio could look forward to a lifetime of factory employment, and earn enough from his wages to buy a house and a car. Today Akron Ohio consists of ghettos and boarded up factories. Those jobs have moved to China and Mexico, and what were once middle class neighborhoods are now tenements for the poor.

Truth

I suggest you "look it up" before making such rash comments.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
I'll be honest here. I will... I probably wouldn't just brush it off.

honestly man....it's ok to be emotional about things but don't you think that if seeing something like that(not physical hurting you, your family, or property) makes you jump to fighting, don't you think that maybe you need to get your emotions in check?

just saying man....feel how you want but you're talking out a lot...it does not do well for your argument you know...

your implication of kicking butt if you saw such a thing is tired...

can you not be a patriot, love your country and speak your ming as well as have your beliefs without getting physical with someone?

truth,

ok, so do you not want change?

you sound like you have ideals....do you have a solution for this problem?

back to how it was done in roman times? back how it wsa done when the colonies were first set of back to after the war of independence?
1940's sound good?

someone once said 'without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible'.
i like that quote. a lot of great changes have happened