Could we get in with robots?

Ok, the reason the majority of us access this particular forum is probably our thirst for knowledge about what really goes on inside the mysterious 'paradise ranch' - whether it truly is the mundane day to day running of the world () or the really spooky and unbelievably dubious rumours we all hear that make the likes of 'hangar 18' seem tame.

So my question is this; (sorry if it has already appeared in a thread at some point, but if it has i missed it) We ourselves cant get in without the boring catches of either being governed by the secrecy contracts we would have to sign to work there, or running the risk of being shot dead on sight if we were ever (heaven forbid ) to attempt to gain illegal access to the base.

So would it be possible to build a puppet bot to gain access for us? without running the risks? Using CIVILLIAN technology (do i need to bring up the scenario of opening the box with the crowbar inside it?).

It should be - and therefore, what kind of features would it need? - in a purely hypothetical sense of course ... Having considered the idea for a while, i already have some theories - but what would be most useful is more detailed information on the security of the area (im assuming already that CCTV, heat sensors and possibly pressure sensors are active somewhere)

Thanks for reading my rambling babble!

WHY do i bother? Or maybe 'certain people' are strangling this thread to suit their own ends...

Woo, paranoia is fun when theres nobody to talk to!!!

I don't think a robot would get in no matter how realistic it looked. Where are we talking about anyway?Sorry.

First, if you were to use a robot, there would have to be some method of it communicating the information it gathers to you. If it broadcasts that to you, it broadcasts it to anyone searching for it, too. If, instead, the plan was to have it go in and then come out, you run two risks -- first, that the programming guiding the robot will be viewed in the event of capture (which you'd be totally unaware of since it's not communicating real-time with you) and there's some officials waiting for you to pick them up instead of the robot, or they simply follow it to its destination.

If the facility is secure enough to prevent most, if not all, Russian and Chinese intelligence from getting in, chances are we're not going to be able to do much better.

well if we cant get in how bout setting up a solar powered web cam or something that could be interesting no?

Aww hell, maybe its so secure they dont expect intrusion?

I was thinking multi stage puppet bot - like a russian doll kinda thing, so that transmission signal strength could be kept as low as possible. I agree that it would be impossibly risky to attempt an in-and-out mission, and who could tear themselves away if they got in?

Its already possible to create semi-realistic robots that resemble flying insects and use solar power as their energy source, and that was a few years ago...

It is also worth pointing out that i am not referring to placements inside, even underground areas like bunkers - but outside (initially at least) as a prelude to further infiltration, if deemed possible, at a later date. even getting close enough to relay decent pictures or video from ground level of the base's layout without being torn apart by the 'cammo dudes' would be an achievement, no?

I happen to have something that greatly resembles a dragon fly from the commercial market - but it flys poorly

Hey, it was cheap!

I would highly expect there are many radio detectors in place where, no matter how weak, a foreign signal would set off all kinds of alarms. At least, that's what I would expect if the government's technology is on par with corporations like Motorola (and I'm pretty convinced it is beyond )

You know, it may well be! unless...

If different EM waves were used as a mode of transmission with a parabolic reflection dish, the signal could be focused in order to eliminate its detectability.

Or, if each robot were to remain in sight of each other, relay communication by laser to a more remote point where transmission would not be noticed.

edit:

Hmm, although thinking about it, a parabolic reflector would be an easily distinguishable shape...

[edit on 26-7-2007 by ScriptKiddie]

Maybe a robotic cockroach could infiltrate record the inside then return to base with the recordings, that way there are no signals. And we all know roaches can get into anything.

You better make sure the are resistant to RAID though.

I really think this is feasable btw.

Great idea!
Spying on the spys, nice, I like it.

Hmmm, I wish I knew more about robotics to answer your question thuroughly. A hovering-type robot would be the most effective, however extremely detectable. If I were to do it I would probably use less technical means. For instance, a dove. If you put a panoramic camera or other image capturing device on an intelligent bird, you could possibly train it to fly to a specific destination, take pictures, and fly back. They wouldn't be aware of the presence of this bird as it would look like any other bird flying around the base. Any robot would be to easily detected.
Start with simple recon, then build your spying arsenal once you get more intel.
Thanks
Good idea!

dont forget... a cockroach robot is all to well, but you try control that thing, get past/round/through the terrian sounding the base while remaining undetected is totally different matter, theres also the baking hot sun, i think a device as little as a cockroach would fry in that belting sun, which would mean you'd probaly have to go in at night which leaves you at square 1, but 10 times as hard...there is so many different factors which would make something like this close to impossible, but not fully impossible...it would need a hell of alot of planning and design. Also area 51 monitor you from 25 miles out of the base which adds further complication..

Actually I highly doubt that they have sufficient technology to detect that sort of thing. I assume the security at these facilities is not as incredible as we may think. I work security at a chemical plant, and our main objective is to convince people that our security is top notch, when in fact it's all smoke and mirrors. However, I bet they have a sort of jamming device that floods the frequencies they dont use. And if not, they've probably read this thread and are installing one right now.

What kind of range can you get on these radio-controlled bugs anyway? I wouldn't be at the controls of one unless I could be in a casino in Las Vegas while sending one into Area 51 or something. Nowadays if you got caught doing that you'd be buying yourself an unmarked-plane ride to some foreign country where you'll be tortured and end up starving to death - all in the name of Homeland Security.

[edit on 27/7/07 by an3rkist]

Wow, believers! Thanks for support!

i suggested a multi stage bot as i am well aware that usual operating range for radio controls would be insufficient to cover the base from a safe position. Using relay from multiple 'base' robots along the way to control the active system (kinda similar to the mountaineering base camp system) would be hazardous, however, as if one bot were destroyed the line would be lost.

I too considered hovering robots - using something like the Biefeld-brown effect lifters to maintain height. On the other hand, the wind created by such lift would have the same effect on the desert as cars do on the powder road leading up to the base - instantly giving away position. A bug type appearance would be easiest to get away with, and would not have to be too realistic - who looks at a roach twice in the desert?

It is also worth mentioning that if any robot were ever actually used for this purpose, it could not be fully discussed here - i think we all know why... But hey, ideas are helpful! cmon people;

efficient solar panels
methods of comms
possibility of faraday cage housing
insect movement patterns (i can never get the legs right )

di di mau, noble conspirators!

Yes, a long range would be comfortable - modern "re-education camps" aint too pretty are they? And theyd REALLY hate the fact im not even american...

[edit on 27-7-2007 by ScriptKiddie]

I think solar power would be an insufficient means of energy, due to the fact that you are considering an apparatus as small as a cockroach, and a solar panel of that size would be of little use, even for minimal energy consumption. Not to mention the fact that this whole endeavor will be pointless if the device could not infiltrate the inner parts of a secret facility, so a battery is necessary.

The relay idea may work, but that also leaves a clear cut radio-wave trail right back to the controller, and as I mentioned before it's likely that most radio frequencies commonly used for radio-controlled devices are jammed by the facility. Even in Iraq we had devices on our humvees called "Warlocks" to jam the frequencies commonly used by cell phones and other wireless devices to activate a radio-controlled improvised explosive device. I think the idea of a radio-controlled device is a sound one, were it not for my theory of this jamming device.

The only robot that could possibly achieve the stated goal is one that had some kind of artificial intelligence program installed. There was an episode of "The X-Files" about a man who built robots with the intelligence of insects, rather than that of humans. He said that this was a much easier intelligence to mimic, as insects are just reactionary. If you could get your hands on some AI script based on insect intelligence, you might have something worth sending into a secret facility. However, the lack of control over the device would prove to inevitably expose the device, and all future attempts would probably be caught immediately. Unless you could "teach" the device to only operate under conditions beneficial to the secreting of its presence in the facility, (i.e. keeping to the shadows, not operating when humans are present or when a security camera is pointed at it.) There are too many variables to take into account to do that, though, so have fun.

[edit on 27/7/07 by an3rkist]

Woah there! "Have fun"??? Whoever said i was constructing such an evil device which would constitute such an apalling threat to national security?

Batterys would probably be sensible - based on the time such a bot would probably get inside the base. Although i have heard that insectine robots relying soley on solar power have been constructed and run using basic AI scripting logic, these were under lab conditions - mega efficient part that i...erm... people in general... have no access to.

as for control - i still think it would be the only realistic way of gaining good quality feedback - as AI would take large amounts of power from the system, shortening trip duration, and would probably yield poorer results...

extract (C derived pseudo code for those who cant tell):
Main()
[
if(not in secret bunker)
[
int secret_keycode = 666;
find (bunker_entrance);
access using secret_keycode;
]
else()
[
find(strange_creepy_stuff);
photograph(perfect_quality, strange saucers);
]
]

No, it doesnt seem that realistic
but remember - if it was home made, any frequency or classification of EM wave could be used. Well not visible, obviously - but ULF Radio? or the other side, Xrays? They surely cudnt jam ALL frequencies in the EM spectrum... could they?

heeheehee - peering into the X files with X rays...

Hmm... they have rabbits out there...

and bats

Hey, and rattlesnakes... now THAT wud be a cool robot - think about it, you back away from rattlesnakes, you step on insects

[edit on 27-7-2007 by ScriptKiddie]

[edit on 27-7-2007 by ScriptKiddie]

Originally posted by ScriptKiddie
Whoever said i was constructing such an evil device which would constitute such an apalling threat to national security?

I did! Send me a postcard from whatever horrible third world nation you get sent to for torture and re-education!

Batterys would probably be sensible

I'm no expert, but even if you use solar power you still need a battery to store the energy, correct? I assumed a solar panel of sufficent size to power both the controls and recording and storing mechanisms of such a device would be much larger than the average cockroach.

They no doubt have garbage cans in secret facilities, also. Perhaps a robot shaped like a garbage can could have a large enough solar panel atop it? I bet you could find some blueprints for R2-D2 on some Star Wars geek's website somewhere on the internet.

as for control - i still think it would be the only realistic way of gaining good quality feedback - as AI would take large amounts of power from the system, shortening trip duration, and would probably yield poorer results...

I agree that a certain amount of control is necessary, which is why I find it difficult to to believe any way of infiltrating a secret facility is feasible unless it involves an actual human.

They surely cudnt jam ALL frequencies in the EM spectrum... could they?

I don't know anything about all this stuff. I could probably type a few sentences with enough technological jargon to convince some people that I know what I'm talking about, but I'll refrain from doing so, and just say that IF they jam any, they probably jam all the ones that are used in common, everyday devices such as cordless phones, wireless doorbells, garage door openers, RC cars, etc. I don't even know if all those things use the same type of waves, but those are all things that were used for IEDs in Iraq, so I assume that was what the Warlock system was for. I suppose if you could manipulate the transmitter and receiver to use some never-used frequency you would at least have a better chance of success.

[edit on 27/7/07 by an3rkist]

what if i dressed up lie a robot with thick metal all the way around me and went in with a camera and a cable running back to you and ill line the inside with that blue ice to hide my body heat and even if i am caught there the ones thats screwed cause ill be naked under that suit and when they get me out of it im just gonna dance to cause confusion while you reel the line back in

gangster? i dont even want to know wer ur gonna shove that cable.

And as for Mr sensible An3rkist...

Ok - batteries plus what solar cells can be space-budgeted for as an auxillery source.

Human control, hell yes - still thinking on how though... Maybe sumone could sneak in in camo, but i doubt it highly.

And as for shape, i can see a trashcan working - but ud be instantly screwed if anyone tried 2 use it! How much do people litter out there?

Maybe a fake 'black mail box' could be produced as a relay station.

or alternately - the tinyest thing possible - it would need less camoflauging.
I am already considering anti Visual/heat/IR/Microwave measures, but its hard without actually knowing what measures are in place.

Who was it mentioned a preliminary mission before "building up an arsenal" of such tools? they had a point

edit: Arrrgggghhhh! i started lapsing into text language! Curse you cool people with no spelling ability leading me astray!

[edit on 27-7-2007 by ScriptKiddie]