To all the debunkers: What makes you think its not a conspiracy?

Why does it have to be the US administration?

You have good points GwionX (TaxiDriver) when considering it solely to be a US operation.

But, if it was a joined effort of various countries. All of which benefit in some way having the US presence in the Middle East. Non of the countries that were supossedly involved benifitted. I can think of a few countries that did. But, since they are supossedly our friends, we can't say anything about them. Or if we say anything about Israel, we are labeled anti-semitic.

But, I believe there is more to the story than just the US and a hand full of "terrists".

Originally posted by Taxi-Driver
Event: Despotism
Event: Harboring Terroists
Event: Weapons Development
Event: Past Criminal Indisgression
Event: Civil Rights Violations
Event: Previous Attacks On US Facilities

Notice I never mentioned 9/11. We had enough to begin operations without 9/11. Clinton and Bush senior had already set precednce as well. Both in Afganistan and Iraq.

I can name plenty of countries that are not in the ME that do the exact same. Why are they left to do their dirty business if we are the world police?

I personally believe that either the government was warned ahead of time and simply did not believe it or didn't think it would be as bad as it was; or let it happen for political gain.

I do not think that the government was actually involved though.

Why?

For the simple reason that it would have taken a huge number of people to have pulled it off, and the more people involved in a conspiracy, the less likely it will remain a secret and for every person added to the conspiracy the greater the chances it will become exposed. The odds are that someone would have talked by now, if a large number of people (especially from the government) were involved.

If there is a government conspiracy in regards to 9/11 it is to hide the fact that they either totally bungled national security, or that they allowed it to happen.

[edit on 24-7-2007 by grover]

Originally posted by piacenza
I was going to post something similar.
Probably the Debunkers that write in this board voted (80-90 percent of them) for Bush.

GOD DUDE... you really are my ENEMY On this!

uhhh NO WE DIDN't.... Nor would we EVER...

Bush is a MORON... AND he LET 9/11 happen... you guys all know about pearl harbor...

Well it wasn't American Planes in Pearl Harbor... it was... KAMAKAZI....


hmmm... why is it so far fetched to think terrorists really did fly the planes, AND bush LET it Happen????

why do we have to buy into your story of hologram planes flew into hologram buildings with hologram terrorists and hologram passengers, and hologram people jumping out of the holographic burning buildings to not be an idiot???

you do realize 99% of scientific study is based on ANALYTICAL THOUGHT BASED ON EVIDENCE... you have yet to show a thorough analysis of your evidence, you just state what you have interpreted video footage to mean.
this is neither scientific or intelligent.

believe in creationism much?

lol
Coven Out

Originally posted by Griff
So, I am to believe that in '93, one of our intelegence agencies knew this stuff, but were totally incompetant in 2001?

BTW, I have been saying this from day one. I can't believe you people take incompetance as an excuse. If my incompetance led to the deaths of 3,000+ people, I'm sure you ALL would be calling for me to resign.

edited for correctness....

it goes just like in anything...it's competition....if i toss the ball to you...you make the basket you win the game...and everybody loves you...you get the extra funding...and i'm stuck in the cold.....
but if i keep the ball and make the basket and win the game...everyone loves me...i get the extra funding

if one doesnt share with the others...there's no way the other can crack the case before them....and if it backfires i can always say..."i sent you a memo.....did you get that thing i sent you?"

Originally posted by grover
I do not think that the government was actually involved though.

Why?

Plausible deniability.

For the simple reason that it would have taken a huge number of people to have pulled it off, and the more people involved in a conspiracy, the less likely it will remain a secret and for every person added to the conspiracy the greater the chances it will become exposed. The odds are that someone would have talked by now, if a large number of people (especially from the government) were involved.

I agree. Not many would attack their own country. But, imagine being a MOSSAD agent. Would you care about American lives? I'd say no.

If there is a government conspiracy in regards to 9/11 it is to hide the fact that they either totally bungled national security, or that they allowed it to happen.

Or (for whatever reason) to cover up that our "friends" attacked us.

All this is just me thinking aloud.

Remember the five dancing Israelis in a white moving van. And explosives being found in the van.

www.whatreallyhappened.com...

Remember middle easterners (possibly Isreali) having suspect WTC basement level passes.

www.whatreallyhappened.com...

Please read the whole article. It goes far beyond just this young man and even goes into a few lawyers in Virginia or Maryland (been a while since I read it) being prosecuted for obtaining false documents for the highjackers and even being convicted of it.

Remember reports of a car or truck bomb exploding in the basement.

www.youtube.com...

No matter what you believe, its a conspiracy.

No debunker is going to say its not a conspiracy. Either way, somebody CONSPIRED to pull it off.

So, technically, it is a conspiracy. Just depends on who really was involved with it.

Originally posted by coven
hmmm... why is it so far fetched to think terrorists really did fly the planes, AND bush LET it Happen????

It's not. Was all part of the plan.

why do we have to buy into your story of hologram planes flew into hologram buildings with hologram terrorists and hologram passengers, and hologram people jumping out of the holographic burning buildings to not be an idiot???

Why do we automatically get lumped into the no-plane theory people? You have made a HUGE generalization.

you do realize 99% of scientific study is based on ANALYTICAL THOUGHT BASED ON EVIDENCE... you have yet to show a thorough analysis of your evidence, you just state what you have interpreted video footage to mean.
this is neither scientific or intelligent.

Have you read the NIST report? Do you know that that is how they came to their conclusions? No tests on the steel for either explosives or thermite. 99% of their conclusions are based off video and/or photographs.

Did the NIST investigation look for evidence of the WTC towers being brought down by controlled demolition? Was the steel tested for explosives or thermite residues? The combination of thermite and sulfur (called thermate) "slices through steel like a hot knife through butter."

NIST did not test for the residue of these compounds in the steel.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analysis of the WTC steel for the elements in thermite/thermate would not necessarily have been conclusive. The metal compounds also would have been present in the construction materials making up the WTC towers, and sulfur is present in the gypsum wallboard that was prevalent in the interior partitions.

wtc.nist.gov...

That last part is total BS actually. Thermate contains barium nitrate. Which is NOT present in construction materials.

believe in creationism much?

lol
Coven Out

No. LOL?

First and foremost, Most CT's for 9/11 do not half their stories straight. Half of the the people are nut cases that actually think a plane didn't hit the towers. This takes away from many of the issues that may or may not be true.
Second, You seem to always use comments towards others as they are sheep or because we do not believe what you do we must be Bush people or some other nonsense like that. These things will NEVER help your cause.

I do think there was a cover up, it was a cover up of how incompetent this administration is. In one hand you say how much of an idiot the guys is and in the other he the biggest master criminal since Satan himself.

Alot of CTs deny actual science to fit their agenda, rather then go , hmm this may not be the way they did it. It doesn't mean they didn't, but by believing and spouting out nonsensical rants in alot of cases (not pointing any fingers here).

My advice, really really get a list of things that dont make sense, come to a consensus. Make sure the science is fact and not things that have been debunked 1000s of times then perhaps you can come to a REAL conspiracy.

As I have said above, I do think there was a cover up. here what the facts point to IMHO

The Bush Time line. I feel they knew something was going to happen, they didn't know where or when but something. But since they ignored documents from the previous admin, basically is seems like they were playing partisan politics with our lives. This is the real conspiracy, they love you guys saying they are hiding people that actually died in a plane. Because then you dont ask the real questions.

They didn't know what they were doing. bottom line, they didntscramble jets quickly and Cheny is the one who did it? , they probably did know something was gonna happen to NY but didnt know what hence all the drills and such. Do you think they would have put the Disaster training in Building 7 if they thought it was going to get hit?

They Didn't warn the public, and probably till the last min tried to figure it out.

They didn't check up on leads, basically, as dumb and as incompetent s we think this admin is now, is how they were then. They are no master criminals they are greedy fools.

And theres at least part of my 9/11 debunkers mind lol

[edit on 24-7-2007 by ShiftTrio]

[edit on 24-7-2007 by ShiftTrio]

Psychologically, the act of coming here, to "debunk" theories that are being tossed around is a very strange behavior especially for those posters that post the same "debunkings" over and over obsessively.

What would motivate someone who KNOWS the truth to come here and monitor the conversations of others who do not agree?

It really makes no sense.

If the non-believers are crazy, dumb, etc... why "debate" (I use this word very loosely re: "debunkers") us?

[edit on 24-7-2007 by Pootie]

Question ShiftTrio:

You say that they knew something about NYC but not where. What about the bombing at the WTC in '93? That would give me a clue about where it would happen. Of course, this is hindsight.

Originally posted by ShiftTrio
First and foremost, Most CT's for 9/11 do not half their stories straight. H

The government does not half [sic] their story straight... Pancakes, zipper "clips", bowing trusses, timelines, and on, and on...

[edit on 24-7-2007 by Pootie]

Perhaps, or not. Lightning striking twice in the same spot? Who knows. I think this also has alot to do with not paying attention to what the previous admin had to say about. Remember Condelisa (Spelling) and the memo that got ignored. I would bet its more then a memo they ignored. again just an opinion. But this to me points more to incompetence than government conspiracy IMHO

Originally posted by Pootie

Originally posted by ShiftTrio
First and foremost, Most CT's for 9/11 do not half their stories straight. H

The government does not half [sic] their story straight... Pancakes, zipper "clips", bowing trusses, timelines, and on, and on...

[edit on 24-7-2007 by Pootie]

Umm What? See this is my point. you don't explain anything. Like I said I believe there is a cover a cover up of incompetence, look at any action this admin has touch, name 1 thing they have done correctly. But they are the master minds behind the biggest coup in modern history?

For some reason I have a feeling this thread is going to get really ugly...
Really quick...


Ekkk


*hides in Corner*


P.s. to avoid off post... the previous post I made was SPECIFICALLY meant for Piacenza.


=P

Coven Out

I could almost buy into the controlled demolition theory except for one glaring fact. THE PLANES HITTING THE BUILDINGS!

Think about it for a minute. You are going to create a terrorist incident for the purpose of getting the US into a war in Iraq. You have wired both towers with explosives that guarentees their total destruction. Why fly a plane into them? Load up an 18 wheeler with AMFO, park it near the towers and detonate it at the same time as you blow the towers. Quick, easy and simple. Leave some evidence tying it in to some Iraqi nationals and you have the American people calling for Sadam's head on a pike. Why take a chance with the planes? Why take a chance of the towers not collapsing and evidence of your rigging the building with bombs being discovered? It just doesn't fit.

Don't give me some crap about holograms, or disguised missiles being used. It is too complex, too many chances of an error and too mush of a chance of discovery. I'm not even going to go into the logistics of rigging the buildings and the number of people who would have to keep the secret. I wish our government had the capability to pull something like this off. The only conspiracy here was committed by the people who flew the planes into the towers, plain and simple.

There is a cover-up being committed by the government, but it has nothing to do with the attack on the WTC. Keep an eye on the lawsuits filed by the families of the people who didn't take the government settlement. The hearings start in September.

[edit on 24-7-2007 by JIMC5499]

Look Coven I am quite sure many of the debunkers voted for bush in 2004 it would be interesting to make a poll.
As far as evidence I dont know anymore what to say ,if you don't see them you don't see them point.
I am sick and tired of exposing them as I mentioned many times I care ZERO if the truth comes out or not .I debate here because there are many smart people and I like to know the real truth about geopolitic.
The meteorite should be more than enough to understand that something very very weird went on on 911, those things are unexplainable unless you believe that bending some metal (as some other thread suggested) will create that kind of energy.

Originally posted by ShiftTrio
Perhaps, or not. Lightning striking twice in the same spot? Who knows. I think this also has alot to do with not paying attention to what the previous admin had to say about. Remember Condelisa (Spelling) and the memo that got ignored. I would bet its more then a memo they ignored. again just an opinion. But this to me points more to incompetence than government conspiracy IMHO

But, that also goes back to my original question. Why is incompetence an acceptable excuse? If one of my designs failed and 3,000 + lives are taken, wouldn't you want to know why, how, when, where and to what extent? Why is a botched "investigation" OK with people?

It's a good question, but it has been asked 100 times before on this very board, but more regularly from the other side of the fence.

There is far more evidence to support the 'official' line. 90% of debunking is speculative at best and down right ludicrous at worst.

What we need to know as truth seekers is what, why and where was the failure in preventing these deaths.

I think half the problem is the US gov not being honest about their own mistakes leading up to 9/11.

[edit on 24-7-2007 by myowncrusade]

How hard is it to hijack planes and crash into buildings? Not really hard. Keep it simple stupid.

All they need to do was hijack a couple of planes and simultaneously attack a couple of buildings before the U.S. govt. or the military has the chance to react. If you think the Arabs are too stupid to take on America, go look at the Iraq War as of right now because they are taunting us by inflicting American casualties everyday with primitive weapons and the U.S. military's slowness to adapt to the situation, especially IEDs. Think of that in terms of reacting to hijackings and how slow the response was.

Not to mention previous terrorist attacks committed by Muslims like U.S.S. Cole, Embassy bombings in Africa, 93 terrorist attack on WTC, 96 bombing of Khobar Towers.

I know it was due to govt. incompetence. We had warnings for many months before 9/11 but not enough to take it seriously. After all, when was the last time somebody hijacked a plane and crash it into a skyscrapper?