So what's going on at Groom Lake?

Like many here in this forum I don't buy easily into conspiracy theories. I prefer to deal in cold hard facts or reasonable probabillities. But when someone builds a 600ft long hanger in the middle of a dry lake bed at an airbase that isn't acknowledged and doesn't want you to even photograph it from 10 miles away, my ears prick up.

Take a look here, click on the "new building" link and view for yourself.

So I guess the question is what are they doing? Could it be a "Lockheed SR-72"? Obviously no one here knows (or if they do they are not about to tell) but after seeing that photo provided by intelgurl looking from Creech AFB towards Groom Lake, I thought it might be interesting for us to speculate. Over to you all.

LEE.

To be honest I doubt anyone here knows. It could be anything for testing of new aircraft to just being a decoy...

I'm curious as well but I doubt we will know anytime soon what's going on out there

that site talks about the sr-72....which there's an article in the airforce times about it.....it'll be unmanned

www.airforcetimes.com...

They hust enhanche the capability`s to test new aircraft and to store them...

And for Groomlake itself it is a facility to test the latest in aircraft designs and it isnt the site where supposedly the UFO`s are stored....

Could it be a giant maintainance bay? For lots of assorted things. THey could require that the equipment be out of the sun, heat or dirt and dust. might not be for secret aircraft.

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
Could it be a giant maintainance bay? For lots of assorted things. THey could require that the equipment be out of the sun, heat or dirt and dust. might not be for secret aircraft.

Having done work at Tonopah, I know how compartmentalized some projects can be and how the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing (metaphorically speaking).

Considering that projects at Groom Lake are spooky black, and even more compartmentalized, I would venture a guess and say that whatever is housed in that large hangar is one project, not a potpourri of projects.

We know that work is being conducted on the follow-up to the SR-71 - the USAF has admitted it - at what stage that work is - is anybody's guess.

Also consider the possibility that there is something going on in the Global Strike project that would require a large hangar like that.

Interesting,

SO, there is an Aurora. I knew it! Thanks for tacitly confirming that for me. Just kidding.

What i meant was that the hanger might not have any black project stuff in it. just lots of...ahhh hell. I have no explanation of the hanger.

Always look forward to your posts and threads Intel. Try not to judge me from the immaturity of all of my threads. I know i don't offer much to defend myself about that statement from looking at my posts.

Groom Lake is a flight test and research center. The base is home to many experimental aircraft that are used to try out everything from the latest developments in stealth technology, to advanced propulsion concets. Basicly, think of Groom Lake as the black world's equivelent of Edwards Air Force Base.

Tim

Originally posted by intelgurl

Having done work at Tonopah, I know how compartmentalized some projects can be and how the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing (metaphorically speaking).

Considering that projects at Groom Lake are spooky black, and even more compartmentalized, I would venture a guess and say that whatever is housed in that large hangar is one project, not a potpourri of projects.

Hey Intelgurl its great to have you back posting! I'm actually just returning myself after getting hitched on the 14th and going to Cuba for a honeymoon. Married life just as crazy as before. Hope to see you around for a bit how long is your leave? Anyways back to the subject eh.

The above quote from your post goes in the face of a possible F-19 myth that Mr John Lear has been touting as a answer to the designation. Personally I think the F-19/F-20 Tigershark explination is good enough but hey who knows 100% for sure anymore. The point is that Lear claims that the F-117 and the F-19 where built in the same building. He also claims the 2 planes had major difference. For me this is harder to believe espesially when as you said these projects even though compartmentalized are still seperated to not allow problems that Mr Lear claimed happen.

As to my take more so on tha addition I think its neat that we can follow it with its progress but I doubt we will get a good idea what its intended for unless the Gov makes a mistake about whats sitting out for the sat's equipment to pick out.

Three things,

1) Intelgurl, Hmm Global Strike (or interim bomber?) that is a reasonably logical suggestion. I do wonder however why a white world project would be out at Groom Lake? Not saying it isn't feasible, just that they normally wouldn't be to keen to raise a high profile on a project out there and all the possible scrutiny from nosey congressmen and press that it brings. Then again it is a nice quiet place to work on a strategically important project. Maybe the government is getting concerned about spying activity on such development work by the Chinese and others?

2) Tim, have you gone and changed your name? you used to be a "1" now you seem to be just a Ghost.

3) "Oh Canada!" you got married. What on earth convinced you to to do such a foolish thing? Congratulations.

LEE.

Having seen the most recent (18 July) satellite image of Groom Lake, I revise my previous estimate of the new building (Hangar 25). It is smaller than I thought, but still larger than the other hangars. It definitely appears to be ideal for a single project.

The hangar is isolated somewhat from the Southend ramp and will soon be accessible by its own taxiway. The large earthen berm east of the hangar appears to have been built-up solely to block the view of unauthorized observers.

Originally posted by Canada_EH
The above quote from your post goes in the face of a possible F-19 myth that Mr John Lear has been touting as a answer to the designation. Personally I think the F-19/F-20 Tigershark explination is good enough but hey who knows 100% for sure anymore. The point is that Lear claims that the F-117 and the F-19 where built in the same building. He also claims the 2 planes had major difference. For me this is harder to believe espesially when as you said these projects even though compartmentalized are still seperated to not allow problems that Mr Lear claimed happen.

I would not presume to know better than John Lear concerning the F-117 and the F-19. That was 25+ years ago and I was still playing with dolls back then. All I can attest to is the level of security used now at Tonopah, and assume that project security at Groom is far more strict and compartmentalized than that.

Originally posted by thebozeian
Hmm Global Strike (or interim bomber?) that is a reasonably logical suggestion. I do wonder however why a white world project would be out at Groom Lake? Not saying it isn't feasible, just that they normally wouldn't be to keen to raise a high profile on a project out there and all the possible scrutiny from nosey congressmen and press that it brings. Then again it is a nice quiet place to work on a strategically important project. Maybe the government is getting concerned about spying activity on such development work by the Chinese and others?

"White world project"?
No.
The next gen bomber project will be/is deep black. Air Combat Command chief General Ronald Keys has been quoted as saying, “I think that it will probably start out just like a number of our high-end technical programs -- it is going to start as a ‘black' program until we understand where we are going...”
He goes on to say, “The details of what it is going to look like, how fast it is going to go, how far it is going to go, what it's real capabilities are and stuff like that, I am not sure we are interested in letting a lot of people know what those will be.”

No, the next gen bomber/global strike will have to be developed at a site such as Groom; Groom is remote with tight security and they have a 10 + mile runway - sounds perfect to me.

Source: New Bomber Program to Begin 'Black': InsideDefense.com



[edit on 7-25-2007 by intelgurl]

intelgurl,
when I say it wont be a black project I mean it wont be in the same class as say the F-117 development, which as you know was totally denied by the government untill it was declassified and brought out into the light. There is nothing too black about the interim bomber, given that we know about it, the project is discussed freely in the press and it is an officially announced DoD project. It may not be a full white world program but then it isnt really overly black either, more a shade of grey, much like the F-22 and to a degree the F-35 are.

In fact the very point that the Air Combat Command chief General Ronald Keys has been quoted as saying, “I think that it will probably start out just like a number of our high-end technical programs -- it is going to start as a ‘black' program until we understand where we are going...”, shows that it isnt a true black program, if it where he wouldnt be on record as having said this. Imagine if in 1981 or so the head of the F-117 project had spoken of it in a press briefing, he would have been hung drawn and quartered by the joint chiefs.

Having said that I believe that we agree that it is logical to run such a strategically important project out of somewhere like Groom Lake. In the end our only difference of opinion it seems is where black, white and grey lie.

LEE.

Originally posted by thebozeian
intelgurl,
when I say it wont be a black project I mean it wont be in the same class as say the F-117 development, which as you know was totally denied by the government untill it was declassified and brought out into the light. There is nothing too black about the interim bomber, given that we know about it, the project is discussed freely in the press and it is an officially announced DoD project. It may not be a full white world program but then it isnt really overly black either, more a shade of grey, much like the F-22 and to a degree the F-35 are.
...

Having said that I believe that we agree that it is logical to run such a strategically important project out of somewhere like Groom Lake. In the end our only difference of opinion it seems is where black, white and grey lie.

When I refer to "black" I am generally referring to a Special Access Program. Some such programs can be acknowledged but any and all details cannot be transferred to the public sector.

For instance the technology behind midcourse missile defense is a black program (SAP). We know they are doing something but what that something is, nobody on the outside knows.

While you have really good points, most of which I agree with, I think what we tend to disagree on is the terminology.

There is yet another possibiity of what the new hangar at Groom is for, and that is a Northrop Grumman - Scaled Composites spaceplane. I'll guarantee you one is in the works.

Originally posted by intelgurlWhen I refer to "black" I am generally referring to a Special Access Program. Some such programs can be acknowledged but any and all details cannot be transferred to the public sector.

While you have really good points, most of which I agree with, I think what we tend to disagree on is the terminology.

Ahh, of course you jogged my memory with the mention of Special Access. I guess that is what I was trying to clear up with my many shades of black, white and grey comment. So in short, it was just a matter of us clarifying what each meant about the word "black". Gotcha, now were on the same page.

Originally posted by intelgurlThere is yet another possibiity of what the new hangar at Groom is for, and that is a Northrop Grumman - Scaled Composites spaceplane. I'll guarantee you one is in the works.

Now that is one very sexy idea. If I recall correctlly NG has made a takeover of Scaled Composites, so the possibillities that brings are endless. And when you said "I'll guarantee you one is in the works", was that a knowing wink I detected, or have I missed something in the press recently?

LEE.

This new hanger could just be house cleaning. All the aircraft that have been tested and developed at Groom Lake need to be put somewhere for storage. Even after the production model comes out, you can't just send them to the neighbourhood wrecker. I would imagine that they have been collecting on the base for years.

Actually they have done that. They have disposed of and buried aircraft out there. I know at least of the two Have Blue test articles, but of course those crashed also, and it was the wreckage that was buried.

They could easily just take apart aircraft and dispose of them if storage was really a concern.