The Black Knight from Space

Good post! I like the posts on here that really raise alot of questions. But it seems like people on here don't want to research anything on here anymore. Don't listen to the naysayers who don't like this thread, there hasn't been a good thought provoking one in awhile. Good job op there's also a thread of a monolith and carl sagan supposedly knew about that was made back in like 2004ish.

[edit on 22-7-2007 by malakiem]

More interesting data, with "automatic" drawings for your viewing pleasure...

Link to probe drawings

Originally posted by sensfan
Actually, meteors do this all the time. Depending on the angle that they strike the atmosphere, they can skip off back into space like a stone skipping on the water.

They do but that requires a particularly shallow angle of approach, and the particular object referred to in the "Fast Walker" case pulled something like a 120/160 degree turn as I understand it.

Meteors don't do that

OP, thanks for posting, really interesting read!

Possible explanation or perhaps coverup...?

Space watch´s first catch - Time Magazine 1960

Originally posted by NGC2736
When one steps back from the actual discoveries, it's almost like a classroom setting where a "teacher" asks a question, with a hint towards the answer, and the brighter students start working on the problem.

And the "spark" in different locals seems not to be just one of technical discoveries in the sense of inventions of a mechanical nature. There is no way to be sure, but there seems to have been separate, yet nearly identical, timelines for the invention of writing, basic math, fire, burial of the dead, and such things.

This is the pattern that UFO researcher Jacques Vallee eventually noticed in the data that he had collected over the years which made him veer away from the ET Hypothesis and made him so frustrated with his fellow researchers that he eventually left the field. What he noticed was that considering all the possibility of alien cultures being anywhere from thousands to a million years older than ours, it was curious that UFOs generally only represented technologies that were at best 50 to 100 years in advance of our own. Not only that, the representations apparently seemed to always keep that distance ahead. As our planes and jets went faster and higher, so did the UFOs.

When he looked at the data, what he saw was a classic teaching curve. You introduce something new, let the student soak it in, and when the student gets used to it and understands it, you introduce something just a little bit more advanced and keep repeating the process. It works great for training animals to do tricks. Curious.

Working only from the data, he couldn't say exactly what was causing this phenomenon. What he suggested, however, was that there was some kind of organization of beings, entities, or something, who made it their job to slowly guide the progress of advancing intelligent cultures. They drop "hints" in the form of UFOs (which are only partially real, as we understand reality), and put ideas into people's heads via dream imagery. They are hidden teachers.

It's an interesting idea, as gleaned from the data. But I don't think I completely buy it. We're not animals being trained. As intelligent beings, we have a natural desire to learn and progress, and rather than teach us like trained dogs, they might do a better job if they would tell us outright what we were supposed to learn and provide us with a reason why it's a good thing. We'll take it from there. Our colleges are packed for a good reason. We know when it's in our best interests to learn. When I corresponded with Vallee several years ago about this idea, he seemed to think it was a good one, although, he suggested that the Teachers may have very good reasons not to make their identities directly known that we don't understand. Our tendency to deify things we don't understand may be one of those reasons.

So, as a result, the Teachers are very subtle. Like in Carl Sagan's "Contact," maybe the work is slow, in tiny steps, taking place over many, many years. Hard to say.

I do like the idea of a secret Nazi satellite, though. There is still an awful lot of stuff about our very early experiments with rockets that is unknown, and in many cases I imagine purposely classified.

Originally posted by Astyanax
Valis was published about the time (maybe shortly after) its author died. It was published as fiction, but it wasn't a novel: more a documentary of Dick's final surrender to the paranoia and suspicion of perceived reality that dogged his life and were the key elements -- endlessly fascinating ones -- in his work. Novels like Flow My Tears, The Policeman Said and The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch left the reader disoriented and confused within nested unrealities, uncertain of which direction, if any, 'true reality' lay. Note ATS book-lovers, especially NWO, Illuminati, etc. enthusiasts: Dick's The Penultimate Truth describes the final result of the ultimate conspiracy of that kind. A fun read.

What I find interesting is that Dick was influenced in many ways by Carl Jung. Physicist Wolfgang Pauli also corresponded a lot with Jung, first as a naysaying skeptic, but later as someone who was recognizing patterns in his dreams that were helping him with his work in quantum physics. When dealing with the complexities of variable reality states, I suppose Jung is a suitable nexus, whether you're a physicist or a fictionalist. I haven't read much of Jung's biography. It makes me wonder if he ever had an incident where he was "instructed" in some dramatic way by something equivalent to VALIS. I'll have to look that up one of these days.

Put another way, if extraterrestrials actually exist, would we recognize one of their probes if it flew right by our planet?

hehe like that one ,

i belive this is not the nasa ring critters , they seam to more "between" places and not solid solid as a rock but mabye more like water or a mist , 1 celled organisms , wherent they measured more then a mile across , thats mass , but i dont see the mass in em , can you knock on em or will your hand go throu it ?

gelly fishes in space ?

nor do i think this is the worm like things, they to where measured to be quite long , but they seam to have mass , ..

but i do find the idea some what stupid that we re being preaced to about animals getting extinct when we do even have latin names for these " rings and worms that apparently live in high atmosphere / space like enviroments .

anyways getting of the track , . .

id guess the lde and the probes to be in connection ,


they are coming , . .

wheter it be nazi testube androids radiocontrolled from earth with some thing tesla built or a friendly visitor , i want one their driving...

Brilliant find! i have to say i, i've never come across this before! Gives me more reading material

Originally posted by SuicideVirus

Working only from the data, he couldn't say exactly what was causing this phenomenon. What he suggested, however, was that there was some kind of organization of beings, entities, or something, who made it their job to slowly guide the progress of advancing intelligent cultures. They drop "hints" in the form of UFOs (which are only partially real, as we understand reality), and put ideas into people's heads via dream imagery. They are hidden teachers.

It's an interesting idea, as gleaned from the data. But I don't think I completely buy it. We're not animals being trained. As intelligent beings, we have a natural desire to learn and progress, and rather than teach us like trained dogs, they might do a better job if they would tell us outright what we were supposed to learn and provide us with a reason why it's a good thing. We'll take it from there. Our colleges are packed for a good reason. We know when it's in our best interests to learn. When I corresponded with Vallee several years ago about this idea, he seemed to think it was a good one, although, he suggested that the Teachers may have very good reasons not to make their identities directly known that we don't understand. Our tendency to deify things we don't understand may be one of those reasons.

So, as a result, the Teachers are very subtle. Like in Carl Sagan's "Contact," maybe the work is slow, in tiny steps, taking place over many, many years. Hard to say.

Hate to say it, but Valee's thinking is typical of a certain strain of subversive French intellectualism. You have to have lived there to recognize it. First, it delights in going against the grain, of flipping things on their head, inverting them. It's an old tradition, "epater la bourgeoisie," or shock the middle classes, they being, in this case, the UFO establishment. Secondly, it delights in its own cleverness of thought, and is narcissistic verging on hermetic, and tends to displace the question at hand from the verifiable and quantifiable into the realms of pure speculation, mind puzzles. Third, it makes sweeping, unsupported assumptions trying to unify unifiable data.

For Vallee to proclaim that the data of UFO sightings indicates a continual time lag of 50-100 years beyond our own technological advancement is an example of the third point, a sweeping proclamation that has no real basis in the reports and cannot be deduced from them. Rather it is a seduction.

His idea of "teachers" would, in any other context, simply be called insight. Is every brilliant idea supplied to us by totally speculative entities, or do they come from our own thought processes? Are we simply robots, waiting to receive a new data command from on high? Mind games, IMO, not to be taken too seriously. The mind is better than the game he proposes.

[edit on 23-7-2007 by gottago]

Originally posted by gottago
His idea of "teachers" would, in any other context, simply be called insight. Is every brilliant idea supplied to us by totally speculative entities, or do they come from our own thought processes? Are we simply robots, waiting to receive a new data command from on high? Mind games, IMO, not to be taken too seriously. The mind is better than the game he proposes.

Like I said, I don't think I buy the idea, myself.

But I should say that he himself has never specifically identified the source of this instruction, these Teachers. That's just a suggestion. He may also be referring to a kind of collective subconscious driving us forward, which sometimes results in a physical manifestation of something, a UFO, that we can sometimes even photograph.

The numbers he crunched particularly highlighted the way UFOs seem to come and go in waves, or "flaps." This ebb and flow corresponds to a typical teaching curve. Along with that, there is the notion that technical progress seems to move forward in the same way. It's not linear, but moves ahead in bursts, and is often stimulated by specific individual with an insight, often arrived at in a dream.

It's certainly possible because of the way human beings think, that the process is all internal. But the way I interpret it, he was also suggesting that the process might be stimulated from an external source. It may be his arrogant way of purposely going against the intellectual grain of common UFO thought, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong. The biggest problem is hypothesizing about the mechanism. It requires a greater incorporation of the concepts of psychic or telepathic transmission into the UFO field, which curiously makes a lot of people uncomfortable. Curious, because a huge percentage of UFO encounters have a psychic component.

This is where he began to part company with the strict "nuts and bolts" UFO folk who are convinced that we're dealing only with alien creatures, quite similar to us, who are flying metal spaceships to Earth from other planets.

Personally, I think Vallee's ideas are intellectually stimulating, however, they do rely on things such as psychic connections or subconscious communications that have not been proven to most people's satisfaction. On the other hand, the idea of UFOs being metal ships with organic aliens in them also rests on a notion that has no basis in proven fact. We don't know of any life outside of Earth, much less any that can build and fly space ships.

It's unfortunate that a pre-Sputnik satellite might be so easily mistaken for a meteor, comet or minor moon, such as Toro. Otherwise, a review of such reports would be a lot easier and fruitful. And if nothing else, Werner Von Braun knew how to keep a secret, so information on any early orbital rocket experiments (even those crash landing near Roswell, New Mexico), is going to be difficult to find.

Originally posted by SuicideVirus

It's an interesting idea, as gleaned from the data. But I don't think I completely buy it. We're not animals being trained.

This is a very interesting idea... and may actually be right on the mark.

Jules Verne writes about man landing on the moon, has the whole thing pretty close... so did he dream the future? Or did we take up on the seed he planted

The liquid fuel rocket was "discovered" by a Russian, a German and an American all abot the same time and they had little if any contact with each other. History books say they were independent ideas at the same point in time.

I bet you can find many examples... maybe worth a study or at least a thread

Originally posted by zorgon
This is a very interesting idea... and may actually be right on the mark.

Jules Verne writes about man landing on the moon, has the whole thing pretty close... so did he dream the future? Or did we take up on the seed he planted

The liquid fuel rocket was "discovered" by a Russian, a German and an American all abot the same time and they had little if any contact with each other. History books say they were independent ideas at the same point in time.

I bet you can find many examples... maybe worth a study or at least a thread

This is true, but it's also explainable rather mundanely. If you have multiple scientists working form the same initial information and techniques (historical gunpowder rocketry and chemistry) and going towards the same goals (more powerful or efficient and powerful rockets), then it's entirely reasonable they would all hit upon the same solutions, assuming there is one "best" solution.

Also, just because scientists aren't working together or communciating with eachother doesn't mean they aren't hearing about eachother's experiments through mutual colleagues or scientific journals.

It's an interesting idea, but it's really just explaining one mystery with another. Any questions it may answer are replaced by equally strange ones.

space-2001.net

Alien satellite.

"Writer and explorer Erich Von Daniken made mention of the time delay phenomenon in his book In Search of Ancient Gods, commenting: "Apart from a few experts, no one knows that an artificial satellite has been revolving in our solar system for 13000 years!" According to Von Daniken the answer to this mystery was of alien origin! He quoted that in 1960 a Professor RN Bracewell of the Radio Astronomic Institute of Stanford University, "had said that if an alien intelligence had wanted to get in touch with us it might possibly do so by the delayed return of radio signals!"

Star Chart.

An even more bewildering twist to the saga was soon to be revealed! Studies made by the president for the Association in Scotland for Technology and Research in Astronautics, revealed that the signals could be broken down and decrypted in a manner that seemed to show the outline of a star chart. When this outline was converted onto a detailed map of the sky the bewildered researcher found to his amazement that it corresponded to a region in the constellation of Bootes! The evidence seemed to focus on the star Epsilon Bootes, and a delighted Professor Bracewell of Stanford University is on record as claiming: " The maps produced.... can be adduced as a possibility of communication with another intelligence!"

Bracewell also went on to add that such a satellite camped in orbit around our world would want to communicate with us in a pictorial method of digital origin! In this way the decrypted picture - like the star map - could furnish important information in the universal language of science - numerical evidence!

Decoded Intervals...

Continued at source.

[Mod Edit: Quote trim & Formatting - Jak]


[edit on 2/8/07 by JAK]

Hey Stanley06, just a heads up mate, quotes from external sources need to be posted within the quote tags. Just so you dont get in trouble.


ATS Handbook - How to Quote

A Search for Natural or Artificial Objects Located at the Earth-Moon Libration Points- This link is important for two reasons. The first, obviously, that it was a search for artificial satellites/probes at the most logical areas for them to have parked in the solar system. Of course, they didn't find anything.

The second I think is a little subtler. The date is 1980, and there was a real effort to look for evidence of alien contact within the solar system. This was right after the Viking program, which for whatever reasons you choose to accept did not detect life on Mars. However, many people at NASA were hopeful or even expecting life to be discovered.

It seems to me that not too long ago, the science community was much more open about the possibility of direct contact with some kind of alien life, be it intelligent or simple bugs. Then after a while, things seemed to be more low-key. We had SETI, which was one of those "we might hear something from 1,000 years ago" deals. Maybe it had scientific merit, but it wasn't... tangible. There wasn't a whole lot of talk of aliens. Even suggesting the idea that we could encounter alien life of any kind was considered science ficiton at best.

Then we had the possible fossiziled Martians in a meteorite. And the various Mars probes that have been sent in the past decade discovered much, even prompting sientists to outright claim once again there might be life on Mars. We've landed probes on Titan, it's entirely possible to get one to Europa, a place prime for life. Science is once again seeming to be embracing the idea of being able to see something alien with our own eyes.

I don't know if that's really important, but it makes me smile.

Funnily enough I was reading an article about this just last night.

The article title: Signals from the stars:

The article charts the history of anomalous radio signals from Tesla onwards. With particular relevance to what's been discussed here the article reads:

Signals from the Stars?

Strange cries and voices:

The dawning of the space age brought with it more strange phenomena. On May 16 1963, in his Mercury capsule above Hawaii, astronaut Gordon Cooper was talking to mission control on a special frequency channel when extraneous voices broke in. Later examined on tape, these were found to correspond to no language known on earth. The phenomenon was repeated on the Apollo Vlll Borman - Lovell - Anders mission on December 21st, when UFOs were seen in the lunar orbit and more voices broke into the communications channel with mission control.
This, not unnaturally, caused some consternation back on Earth. The frequency channel they were using is such that it is virtually impossible for any amateur operator to intrude. Controllers were left with a problem they could not explain, but at the same time could hardly ignore - the security risk was too great.

But as far back as 1927, two Americans, Taylor and Young, had taken such phenomena seriously enough to try to locate the source of the radio signals. They had identified an echo-periodicity of 0.01 seconds originating from a distance of between 1800 and 6250 miles (2900 and 10, 000 Km), and were comparing their observations with those of Marconi. By December 1928, a number of scientists were interested - Jurgen Hals of Phillips Einddhoven laboratories in Holland had discussed his findings with Professor Carl Stormer of Oslo, mentioning three-second delays he had experienced with an experimental radio transmitter. After another year, on October 28 1929, Dr Van der Pol, also of Phillips, confirmed that he had noted further odd echoes from a planned emission of impulses at the same time every morning. It was van der Pol's analysis of the delay between emissions and the reciept of their echoes, always on the same wavelength, that effectively excluded ideas that they may have been bouncing off the Moon, or inner Van Allen belt, or that theyt might have been somehow stored and reflected from layers of ionised gas.

This just a snippet from the article and ends with recommended reading on the subject:

Messages from the stars - Ian Ridpath - Fontana 1978
The UFO verdict:examining the evidence - Robert Sheaffer - Prmometheus Books (New York) 1981




Continued at source
[Mod Edit: Quote trim. External source cited for further reading. - Jak]

[edit on 2/8/07 by JAK]

I was meaning to post that Lunan himself later admitted that it's highly unlikely Epsilon Bootes was the source of the probe/transmissions, as later information placed the star much farther away from Earth than we had originally though. There was also more information that led him to believe it was unlikely life intellgient life would evolve in the binary system. So, since the epsilon Bootes star map was the main evidence this was intelligent communication in the first place...

Also, Gordon Cooper rejected he ever saw a UFO in space. He was, as many should know here, an avid supporter of Ufology and claimed to have seen UFOs on other occassions. But the story of a green orb and foreign language communication is a complete fabrication according to him. Sicne he was the only person in the capsule at the time, he's the best source to go to for whatever went on up there

[edit on 7-24-2007 by Esoterica]

Originally posted by Esoterica Sicne he was the only person in the capsule at the time, he's the best source to go to for whatever went on up there

Unless he was "reminded" of his oath of secrecy that he signed...

Originally posted by zorgon
Unless he was "reminded" of his oath of secrecy that he signed...

Then why would he talk about other times he saw UFOs and supprot UFO research? He only discounted this one lie.

If your only excuse when the guy himself says he didn't see something is "The government told him to shut up," then you've already decided what the truth is, especially since he's totally open about other UFOs.

When he says he saw a UFO, he's 100% telling the truth. When he says he didn't see a UFO, he's just lying for the government. Either way, you get what you want out of him. I don't doubt that the government has pressures people, especially their own agents and officers, to keep quiet about UFOs. But handpicking which statements you choose to believe from the same guy isn't productive unless you have reason to believe int his instance he was coerced. It don't help any discussion of UFOs, because you have the answers before anyone even asks the questions.

[edit on 7-24-2007 by Esoterica]

but, to argue the point ...

he has a non-disclosure agreement with NASA, and what he saw and did with them and their missions ... he has to say what they tell him to regarding his missions; not what he may have saw on his own time and life away from the organization. To me, that can make a huge difference ... and they wouldn't pressure him, because they could discredit the statements rather easily if they wished to even make a comment.

Not saying I necessarily believe one way or the other, but, I try to look at it from a different perspective.

Interesting thread.