Michael Vick's Dog Fighting Indictment

edition.cnn.com...

First time I've posted links. Hope I did it right.

This has been floating around in the news for the last several months. Looks like the hammer is finally coming down on the NFL's fastest quarterback.

There probably won't be many here that will argue in support of dog fighting. I'm wondering if anyone can explain the mindset of these type of people? That's why I felt it appropriate for the Social Issues forum.

Is this a southern thing? Is it a racial thing? Is it an economic class thing? Is it a spoiled professional athlete thing? What makes people think fighting dogs could in any way be acceptable? I remember when rumors concerning Michael Vick and big time dog fighting first came out, Clinton Portis, another NFL player, implied that it was really no one's business whether Michael Vick was fighting dogs because he was a role model that contributed to the community. He basically was stating why would anyone care. They were Vick's dogs and they were on his property. Mind your own business. It wasn't anything outside the norm to him. He took considerable heat for those comments.

I have heard rumors on ESPN talk radio that other athletes could be involved. The article linked states Vick allegedly has been involved personally with the hanging, electrocution, and/or drowning of losing or injured dogs.

It's mind blowing. This guy has millions of dollars, a legion of fans, and is under the public microscope. Yet he feels that fighting dogs is a worthwhile past time. His fame will guarantee this gets a lot of exposure. His fame and money may get him off.

I don't understand why anyone would want to fight dogs. I understand even less why someone in Michael Vick's position would want to fight dogs.

This disconnect with what most of society would consider repugnant is hard for me to fathom. What causes it?

Well in reference to the social issue in the aspect of mind set i'm not sure what would drive a man in his position to do the irresponsible actions that took place.

I do believe however that he should suffer repercussions just like that of Tank Johnson and Pacman Jones. People who work in the NFL have such a sphere of influence that i think there should be a no tolerance mandate for severe misdameanors (sp?).

Cruelty to animals as "sport" has existed since the dawn of time. Vick might've grown up watching organized dogfights or cockfights. There's always a seedy subculture where such "games" are acceptable. Furthermore, when you're an athlete like Vick, you probably start to feel invincible and like you could potentially get away with anything.

First of all, I think its a regional thing. You know, dirty south..

Is it black and/or a white thing? No. I think its sort of a sick power thing. Blacks and whites both engage in it.

It's weird. Here where I'm at (in Charlotte, NC) pitt bulls are a prized commodity. A status symbol. I guess b/c they're percieved as bada$$es and probly b/c they fight them.

It's sad, b/c of this stereotype pitt bulls are totally demonized here in the media. They will have you believe that pitt bulls are nothing but snarling baby eaters.

And that couldn't be farther from the truth.

I have a beautiful 3 yr-old pitt bull. She's the sweetest dog I've ever had (and I had many as a kid, growing up in South Carolina). It kills me to think of how all those pitt bulls are brought into this life and made to suffer miserable existences for the sole purpose of amusing people devoid of all humanity and conscience.

If Vick is involved, he should do some time. If its his people, his relatives, then throw them in jail for the six years prescribed. I have no sympathy for those idiots.

No, I would not say it is just operating in the American South. The Wikipedia article also mentions major dogfighting busts in the suburbs of Chicago and also in Dayton, Ohio.

en.wikipedia.org...

It's not like I didn't know dog fighting, cock fighting, etc., exist. In a way, it will be somewhat ironic if a person of Vick's fame ends up in prison for five or six years, when rapists, child abusers, and even murderers sometimes see less time.

On the other hand, it is unbelievable someone with his life would be a major player when he has so much to lose. Of course being a major player in a dog fighting ring could give him a sense of power he cherishes. I assume he's worshiped as he stands around the fighting pits at such an event.

That's why I wonder if it's a cultural thing. He's not exactly known for being warm and cuddly towards football fans; flipping the bird, missing scheduled school appearances, etc. He's not the media darling I'm sure the league, his team, and his sponsors hope he could be. He doesn't have to be, I guess, unless he wants the big paychecks.

If it's something he grew up with, maybe it has a pretty strong hold on him. Maybe he does feel he's invincible or entitled to do what he wants because of his skills. Maybe that's where he's most comfortable, and feels he's most powerful.

I think the comments made by Washington Redskins running back Clinton Portis speak volumes. Those comments were made in May long before any charges were filed. Basically it's nobody's business.

Vick's finding out that might be true, until it becomes public.

Who cares who Vick is. Dog fighting is animal cruelty.

Im no PC pusher, but dam, life is hard enuff, why do we need to push violence among our domesticated animals. That's really just sick.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Who cares who Vick is. Dog fighting is animal cruelty.

Im no PC pusher, but dam, life is hard enuff, why do we need to push violence among our domesticated animals. That's really just sick.

I won't argue with that. I find it interesting that he comes from a tough background, and chooses to keep what was probably part of that background a main part of his life. It must be important to him.

There's a good chance that by continuing to participate in this cruel sport, it will cost him the fame and fortune that allowed him to leave the tough parts of his life behind.

There has been the typical amount of virtual pompocity on this thread.

Cruelty to animals = intolerable

Cruelty to animals for the sake of gain = lazy-ass greed and intolerable

Cruelty to animals for the sake of chump-change gain when you're making millions = stupid lazy-ass greed that's just absolutely intolerable

Now, does it matter what color he is, where he is from or how long cruelty to animals has existed? Not really. It kind of boils down to it appears he is a stupid greedy idiot who just pissed his golden chance away on $1000 bids in a stupid greedy lasy-ass intolerable venture. AND he appears to be a lying sadistic bastard as well.

good-riddance.

Hey, I don't know...

Sometimes I wonder what kind of damage my pitt bull Baby would do. She's not scared or deterred by anything or anyone and she's stubborn as hell. I think she could kill some $&*%.

But I won't let her go at them. It would be wrong on so many levels.

EastCoast your 100% correct..

I too have owned Pits and found them to be fun, lovable and most of all loyal.

I have no idea what Barney would have done had someone tried to hurt anyone of us, but thankfully he went to the promised land having lived a full and happy life...He was one of my greatest friends and companions...

Perhaps we should take those that engage in this, put them in an arena and let them chew on each other awhile....

Now I would pay to see that...

Semper

Sounds like folks involved in this endevour might just be great soldiers and Marines. Hell, I say, if you're into dog fighting, we'll give you a bonus to go sign up to fight this endless war in Iraq. You're into pain and misery.

Having fought with some of those wonderful brave men and women that have ideals far greater than that comment deserve, or perhaps you can understand, I must say your analogy is somewhat egotistical and perhaps even psychosomatic... or jealousy raising it's ugly head huh?

But it is as expected.

Semper

I don't think it's that he grew-up watching animals fight, at least not completely.

Some of the things they found are, well few things make me physically ill, and this did.



**WARNING**
If you have a weak constitution or are easily upset do not read the following.


Alright I've been listening to this story the last few days, and I've heard some of the more
disturbing things they found.

While the police were searching the property they found several dead dogs buried,
some of which had been electrocuted, some beaten, some hung and one apparently died
from being body-slammed.

Apart from that they found evidence of torturing the animals and a 'rape stand',
basically they tied a female dog up and let all the males dogs have there way..

The dog's were also killed or discarded if they were not good fighters.


They also starved the dogs and would put them in a ring/room, when they were so hungry
they would eat anything.

**END OF DISTURBING CONTENT**



In my opinion he should be locked up for life, and I don't mean 15-20 years,
I mean the rest of his life and his fortune and the money that is made from any of
his products be given to animal charities.

[edit on 7/19/2007 by iori_komei]

Why do they do it?

I think in some cases where people fight dogs, they do it as an extension of what they'd like to be able to do. In other words, (in some cases) there's a unleashed violence, unexpressed rage and almost psychopathy buried in a person and this is the form they use to 'express' it or get it out. Their dogs are like an extension of them.

I can't help it, I hate these people. I hope he gets locked up. I wish they all would.

Another thought here... What the hell is happening in professional sports? They're turning into groups of thugs and criminals. Professional athletes used to be people that kids could look up to and strive to be like. I wouldn't want my kids trying to emulate the gangster athletes of today...

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Another thought here... What the hell is happening in professional sports?

That's a very good question, and like most good questions, there's no simple answer.

I happened to see a remark by Johnny Bench (Hall of Fame Cincinnati Reds catcher) the other day. His rookie year in the majors, he made $11,000. That's less than 6 bucks an hour for a person working 40 hrs/week. Yes, yes inflation and all. But there's a HUGE difference between 11k and 20 mil.

Most pro athletes back in the day had off-season jobs. Johnny Unitas (Colts Hall of Fame QB) sold paint!

Today you've got athletes who have no idea what it is to not be coddled. They're allowed to skate on most responsibility by grade school, and are seriously on recruit lists by jr high. The top ones that actually make it to college (not skipping from high school directly to the pros) don't stay long, and while they're there, they're absolved from doing much more than playing, in a lot of cases.

And to be fair, years ago there was much more of a sense of "protecting the reputation" by the media. We now know what guys like Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle were up to during their playing days, but no one would dare write anything disparaging about them while they were playing.

Totally different mind set today by the athlete and the media, and the money's just ridiculous.

No sense + too much time & money = trouble.

[Edit for typo]



[edit on 7/19/2007 by yeahright]

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Sounds like folks involved in this endevour might just be great soldiers and Marines. Hell, I say, if you're into dog fighting, we'll give you a bonus to go sign up to fight this endless war in Iraq. You're into pain and misery.

This totally out of line ECK. My brother is going over there and has never been a proponent of mindless violence in his life. The soldiers he is going over with have high moral standards. I really don't appreciate the insult intended or not towards the soldiers and marines who are serving or have served with honor and decency.

This is just absolutely dreadful. This kind of thing makes me think that maybe torture should be legal for idiots like this. There are no words to express how I feel about this.

I have read that in Native American beliefs, a person who betrays a dog's loyalty, that that is the worst thing anyone can do.

Unfortunately, people who do this kind of thing (cruelty to animals), don't stop with animals. They always go on to do this kind of stuff to human beings as well. I bet if they start digging around they'll find bodies of children or women who have been raped and killed. These people get their kicks from destroying the poor innocents they encounter, whether it be children, animals, women or young girls or men. Also, unfortunately, the people who have Pit Bulls that they love and treat right, have also had to give up their beloved dogs for euthanization, because laws have been enacted to prohibit Pit Bulls from being owned. As usual the innocent people and animals are the losers and the bad guys often get off the hook.

People like this are subhuman. I'm sorry, they just have no soul.
I hope he goes to prison and the other prisoners beat the living hell out of him, after using him like a woman. And I'm not a violent person, but this just needs to stop. What is our society coming to?

I was listening to a sports show on the radio on the way home last night and the host said that "you could get a Grand Jury to indict a ham sandwich". I don't really care for Michael Vick, I'm a Steelers fan, but a few years ago Jerome Betis was accused of rape. It eventually turned out to be a blackmail attempt. I disagree with the NFL imposing suspensions and fines on players before they are convicted of a crime. If and when Vick is convicted then punish him, untill then he is presumed innocent. Come on people the Duke rape case wasn't that long ago.