The Epic of Gilgamesh

Hmmm i wonder? a christian like yourself telling a lie?

Shame on you

Right now in front of me a Schlachter Version 2000

At the start of Genesis a sort of introductory explanation:

The first book of the bible was written, just like the 4 other books of the pentateuch by Moses, the great prophet on Gods order.

edit: and are you claiming that the Bible, Gods word is lying? Not according to the born again christians who own a book store, and recommended me this version, and have taken bible studies at this school in germany.

another edit:

Authorship of the Pentateuch

Jesus Himself and the Gospel writers said that the Law was given by Moses, and the uniform tradition of the Jewish scribes and early Christian fathers, and the conclusion of conservative scholars to the present day, is that Genesis was written by Moses.Source

Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy are sometimes referred to as:

1.)the "Five Books of Moses," because the writings themselves identify the author as Moses, or
2.) the "Pentateuch," a Greek term meaning "pente (5) teuchos (volumes)," or
3.) the "Books of the Law", or
4.) the "Torah" (a Hebrew word meaning "instruction")

[edit on 20-7-2007 by Fett Pinkus]

[edit on 20-7-2007 by Fett Pinkus]

Please pay attention.

and this extract compares the story of Noah with an extract taken from the epic of Gilgamesh whicxh predates the biblical version by 1500 years and the claimed existence of Moses by 1000 years

Let's try this.......try and stay with me, it's simple.

The epic of Gilgamesh does predate the writing of Moses because..... Gilgamesh(NIMROD) lived before Moses. Yes, there is a flood story in the epic of Gilgamesh because Nimrod is the great grandson of Noah.

Of course the epic of Gilgamesh predates the writings of the Bible. Moses lived in 1500 BC. Does that make the Bible wrong.......no. It's the same story.

Sorry sun matrix but your ignoring my previous post where i clearly have caught you lying

Im not to sure what your trying to tell me with that quote but please do try to explain why my bible might be lying in regards to the first 5 books of the bible and to who authored them?

Originally posted by Fett Pinkus
Sorry sun matrix but your ignoring my previous post where i clearly have caught you lying

Im not to sure what your trying to tell me with that quote but please do try to explain why my bible might be lying in regards to the first 5 books of the bible and to who authored them?

Well here's what Marduk quoted. He said the Bible was written by Moses.

this should really be useful for all those people who believe that the Bible is an original book dictated by God to Moses on Mt Sinai

And here's what I said.....Moses did not write the Bible only the first five books...the Torah.

Two minutes of research should disprove ths so called excellent post. Moses did not write the Old Testament.......only the Torah.........

I ignored your insult because I was cutting you slack. You said I lied but ..........that is a lie.

I suggest you run to the kiddie pool while the slack is still being cut.

[edit on 21-7-2007 by Sun Matrix]

Amongst all of this,
where is Lilith ?

Or the Apocrypha ?

I'm no believer of Andrew Collins, but he does provide
a serious trail of evidence as to who Noah was.

Regards,
Lex

There is a reason those texts are left out of the Bible.

Regards Sun

Dear Ariass:
I don't care if your reply was directed to me or someone else. It only shows what an ill educated rude person you are.
If you must know I was first in my state to receive credit in History from Princeton in my sophomore year. I do not worship on Sunday. While I have been called “professor” by many I do not teach Sunday school but if I did I certainly would not be ashamed of it. If you fancy yourself another Don Rickels you are once again mistaken.
If you had spent less time trying to determine your sex and more on class or listening to your audio-cassettes, as your clearly can’t read, you would be aware that Gilgamesh dates to at least 2700 BC.
I suggest you have someone read “Life Began in Sumer” to you. Everyone else can read it for themselves.
I have been to Iraq and I’ve actually seen the little people that are indigenous to that land, not to be confused with the majority of the Iraq population.
IF YOU CAN NOT STAY ON TOPIC IT IS YOU HOW SHOULD LEAVE THIS THREAD. Gilgamesh is a story I found interesting the first time I read it while in the fifth grade.
Everyone else I have included some sites about Gilgamesh:

www.hi.is...

www.timelineindex.com...

ancienthistory.about.com...

Originally posted by Comforter
Dear Ariass:
I don't care if your reply was directed to me or someone else. It only shows what an ill educated rude person you are.

My reply was directed toward theindependent journal who originally started the thread. I didn't find your thread offensive or ill thought out. Although, I don't agree with you on the earth having been surrounded by a layer of water as it is based solely on conjecture I most certainly was not attacking you. It holds the same credence as my theory to explain this purported phenomena which goes that the human dna was modified in such a way to accelerate the programmed death that is inherent. However, my theory can only be tested if dna from the period of the bible were evaluated on a genomic level and compared with current dna paying specific attention to the areas of our dna that deals specifically with programmed death. If the two samples were evaluated and no difference were found it would lead logical persons to the conclusion that a)this is not the reason for the differing life spans or b)there is no difference in life spans and therefore the information may not be completely accurate.

Originally posted by Comforter
And there would be less radiation emitted from once living tissue (how carbon 14 works).

This assertation makes no logical sense when evaluated in context with the mass of scientific data. How do you explain the increased amounts of vegetation found on the earth during the period of the dinosaurs? This vegetation would require the extra solar radiation that would have been blocked by the purported layer of water around the earth.

I agree with you that the epic of gilgamesh predates the hebrew bible.

I also thought your purposeful misspelling of my name was quite cute as well, kudos.

the epic of gilgamesh is the first piece of literature we have, that's why we know the bible plageurized it...

'nuff said

And there's floods stories all over the world in different cultures.

Nuff said.

Dear Arius,
Thanks for the clarification. I can see how personalities could get abrasive from long thread posts. After a re-read yours was not as venomous as I first thought. I admire your control. Interesting DNA concept, I like it, but it falls a bit short in my mind to allow a life span to approach a thousand years. I’ll have to give it more research. Now as for:
"This assertation makes no logical sense when evaluated in context with the mass of scientific data. How do you explain the increased amounts of vegetation found on the earth during the period of the dinosaurs? This vegetation would require the extra solar radiation that would have been blocked by the purported layer of water around the earth."-Arius.
My thoughts had nothing to do with a “layer of water” protecting the earth from cosmic radioactive particulates. I was thinking of a gas vapor that would give the earth a red/orange color of light. A thick enough gas layer to deflect rapid moving small particles and light waves. It is the color most needed by green vegetation. This also explains the miracle of a rainbow after the flood. Previously there would not have ever been one. Rain was the result of rapidly melting polar caps from increased heating by the introduction of new radiation levels. It also seems that there may have been more than one “great flood”. There are several “ages of man” spoken of by various ancient societies such as the Mayans. They believe we approach the fifth time mankind’s civilization will be blown back to the stone- age.
The Biblical flood I believe, as does all the evidence I have read, only covered the shorelines. Since most of the five million members of the human population lived near the shorelines it would and did destroy all civilization. But I honestly believe the reason is closer to that given by Sumerian tablets; that man was interfering with the dreams of the gods (angels of Satan? See the book of Enoch). We were not quite as good of slaves as expected. It seems likely that the last age of man ended by a war like the one discussed in all that literature from India. Perhaps part of the war between the Sons of Light and the Sons of Darkness.
I say slaves of the gods because of the Sumerian religious culture- vagina worship. The “nuns” were trained harlots and the “priests” trained (for a donation) to take care of women, particularly widows. The basis for a breeding colony and also would explain all metals that make good electrical conductors being highly valued. At any rate it appeals to me that some act of ignorance would drive the superior and much better armed “gods” to inadvertently destroy their “bosses” plans, an ultimate oops! Or an act that caused Gods angels to use extreme force in the capture of Satan and his angles destroying most of the atmosphere in the process. After all Satan and his angles came to earth then were imprisoned in Hell at some time seems a likely time to me. If we are not alone in our little world why couldn’t God use other beings to help mankind.
To be specific it was Ea in the Babylonian (the place many Israelites spent 50 years). He was also known as Enki in the much older culture of Sumer that warned the Sumerian’s “Noah” of an upcoming flood. The Sumerian ark was made of the same exact materials but it was round as it only needed to float.
Enki was always near water and used reed dividers or portable walls as he did not want to be viewed by humans. Now was our Bible based on previous deeds in Sumer or could there have been shared deeds by the same individuals? The Bible after all is a collection of books. Perhaps God sent Enki to help Moses also. You know the old fire by night cloud by day being a vapor trail and the Rock broken by Mosha / Moses being the pipe pumping water to Enki’s ship.

www.leaderu.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

www.answersingenesis.org...

whoa,interesting stuff all of it. i especially liked the intro made about the mayans and the 5th cycle of man, just a touch off topic but i find the correlations with greek myth of the 5 ages of man to be quite close. i wonder if there could be a way to narrow the timelines down between the greek myth and the mayan.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
And there's floods stories all over the world in different cultures.

Nuff said.

Several yes, but not in ALL cultures.

And they dont speak of noah. Nuff said?

Like in batak traditions, the earth rests on a giant snake, Naga-Padoha. One day, the snake tired of its burden and shook the Earth off into the sea. However, the God Batara-Guru saved his daughter by sending a mountain into the sea, and the entire human race descended from her. The Earth was later placed back onto the head of the snake.

Or In Mi'kmaq mythology, evil and wickedness among men causes them to kill each other. This causes great sorrow to the creator-sun-god, who weeps tears that become rains sufficient to trigger a deluge. The people attempt to survive by traveling in bark canoes, but only a single old man and woman survive to populate the earth.

According to Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Dardanus left Pheneus in Arcadia to colonize a land in the North-East Aegean Sea. When the Dardanus' deluge occurred, the land was flooded and the mountain on which he and his family survived, formed the island of Samothrace. He left Samothrace on an inflated skin to the opposite shores of Asia Minor and settled at the foot of Mount Ida. Due to the fear of another flood they didn't built a city, but lived in the open for fifty years. His grandson Tros eventually built a city, which was named Troy after him.

How do you explain that none of the flood stories dosent even resemble the Noahs ark story?
Was god so poor at his job, he was only able to spread his word in one small area?
Seems stupid, since he had the might and power to create existence itself, but he wasent able to make people aware of him.

//Jugg

Originally posted by Jugg

Several yes, but not in ALL cultures.

Did I say in ALL cultures or did I say all over the world in different cultures? There are over 500 different flood stories BTW.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
And there's floods stories all over the world in different cultures.

Nuff said.

Like in batak traditions, the earth rests on a giant snake, Naga-Padoha. One day, the snake tired of its burden and shook the Earth off into the sea. However, the God Batara-Guru saved his daughter by sending a mountain into the sea, and the entire human race descended from her. The Earth was later placed back onto the head of the snake.

Gee, we can find the snake and serpent all over the world in religion also....what a coincidence

Or In Mi'kmaq mythology, evil and wickedness among men causes them to kill each other. This causes great sorrow to the creator-sun-god, who weeps tears that become rains sufficient to trigger a deluge. The people attempt to survive by traveling in bark canoes, but only a single old man and woman survive to populate the earth.

Gee, there's that sun god that is all over the earth too. Can you say land of the rising sun? The light bringer.....Lucifer....what a coincidence.

How do you explain that none of the flood stories dosent even resemble the Noahs ark story?

Pretty simple.....you might try checking the god that is being served. The light bringer as the sun god.

Was god so poor at his job, he was only able to spread his word in one small area?

Please see the Tower of Babel for that answer.

Seems stupid, since he had the might and power to create existence itself, but he wasent able to make people aware of him.

Some people are aware of Him. Those that seek Him find Him. You might try following the manual.........the results are guaranteed.

[edit on 24-7-2007 by Sun Matrix]

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
I would give the reason and Biblical proof that the Bible is older,

...give the Biblical proof?
See this only works if you believe in the Bible as a source for proof.
For those on the fence, or skeptics, they really could care less as the Bible as a source in and of itself to show that it is 'older'.

It can be easily argued from other groups, peoples, that they can prove from their text that it is older. Point is, you can 'prove' whatever it is you want to prove.

Peace

dalen

in many oral cultures the story is passed down throught the generations and changes a little every time. its the process that naturally occurs in cultures who dont record theyre histories or creation myths by way of writing. its also if you want to go to the extremes, the best way to explain why all religions if they came from one god are so vastly different.

not a bad point in my estimation if you consider the vastly different regions, the time that has elapsed since, and the lack of credible evidence to refute it, but the same i guess could be said about the lack of credible evidence to prove it too. heh.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
If you want to make statements about historical facts, instead of telling people "let the critical thinkers do my research" I suggest you do it yourself. Otherwise, nobody's going to believe you, and some of us think you're just being lazy and trying to get others to do your work for you.

Without going and doing your work for you, the Epic of Gilgamesh is much older than the Hebrew version. Sumeria/Babylonia is the oldest civilization in the Middle East. the Hebrews took everything from the Sumerians when they were living there.

Now, unless you have "proof" of your statement -- that you have looked up and posted yourself, and not via the work of others here on site -- then please spare us the Christian egocentricism. Thanks.

Well said.

J.

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
Well I think the question should not be WHEN it was written down, but instead, WHEN WAS IT TOLD?

I believe that Adam wrote his portions of Genesis during his lifetime which puts it at over 5000 years old. I think a close examination of the lifespans of the Bibles charachters will show that not only is it possible that the hebrew story was written long before Gilgamesh, but that Adam told his account, FIRSTHAND, to his great great great great great great great grandson Lamech, who was Noahs daddy. According to the Bible Adam could have or would have known his great(x7) grandson and would have given him his EYEWITNESS accounts of the Garden of Eden and all of that.

We know that Lamech knew his grandson Shem, and Shem woulda known Jacob the father of Joeseph. So basically oral and written tradition would nly have had to been retold about 4-5 times before Moses. It is widely accepted that moses didn't write Genesis but instead he Edited it from the oral and written traditions handed down.

So the Sumarians heard the stories from Noah's children and they wrote them down at that time, because they wrote them down and that is the oldest find to date doesn't make it their story or the first writing of that story. It makes it a re-telling of the story by the Sumarians.

It is really simple to see when you look at the timeline so I posted one for you to see the Biblical told ages of charachters and whom they could have known... Not many of yus ever know our great grandparents let alone 7 times great grandparents, so as it is today wewould have to pass this story down several times to get it from one generation to 7 later generations. In Adams day this was NOT the case and in fact he probably knew Lamech and could tell him firsthand the story. I would argue that the story was written down by Adam and those tablets went with Noah on the ark and that those were passed down to Moses eventually who had it all put into one writing, the Bible as we have it today.

Longevity Chart

If the link doesn't work use this address in another browser window and it should come up, I don't know why the link aint working. www.the-independent-journal.com/livingchart.jpg

[edit on 7/17/2007 by theindependentjournal]

Errmm...'Adam wrote his portions of Genesis during his lifetime' - sorry? You actually believe the bible quite literally, don't you?

'Adam' is simply an analogy for early man: and like many other analogies in the bible, is not meant to be taken literally. These simplistic stories were written in this child-like, fairy-tale way because the vast number of people listening to them in ancient times were illiterate and completely uneducated. Taking anything in the bible literally is a BIG mistake, and simply shows how naive and credulous some christians today really are...
J.

i think the gap of understanding between fundamentalism and analogy believers will never be bridged simply by the devout stubborness involved in having the faith to believe in their respective takes on the bible.a can of worms i say this is...