the system depends on MATERIALISM over everything else

i have a theory that the elite system of power and thus wealth depends on engineering a society that is focused on materialism. and i am not talking about living in the woods to avoid materialism. what i am talking about is a warped addiction to materialism over everything else, including the plight of others, loving other people ( relationships) and just finding other ways to enrich your life outside of material purchases.

I think that a certain structure has been created that follows closely to the protocols of the learned elders of zion ( i don't care if it is a gov't document or not) it was prepared by a genius! someone who knew what they were writing. none the less, this system is held in place by the federal reserve banking system and then other official gov't sponsored institutions are created and (glorified) and they have to toe the line as to what they can FUND, and what results are ENCOURAGED, and that society needs to be brought up to ASSOCIATE WEALTH in life with SUCCESS and make this a SOCIAL attitude, in order to make the rich richer and to keep the bankers in power.

any thoughts. i think the biggest threat to this is peace and also spirituality (which is not funded) spirituality is perverted by religion. religion i think still has some basic morals and universal truth burried within it , but only to the reader who can see the bigger picture and transcend the fear and dogma. if people begin to gain an awareness to spirituality and happiness (which they are) they may spend more time on this journey along with meditation instead of being caught up with insecurity's and thinking they have to keep up with the jones's and buy stuff they don't need. i think the media is an invaluable tool for the elite's in this endevor. i think this greed has infected every way of society and keeps people from doing things, or even getting a fundamental understanding of what could be done to help others, and instead things are developed and structured under the frame work of BUSINESS and what can help this business by SUCCESSFUL=wealth and helping others takes a back seat and infect society's general attitudes.

Good post, i also enjoyed your other one.



All very true, we are brainwashed into keeping up with the jones, even if we have to # all over the smiths to get there. Our worth as humans is more and more being judged on what material posessions we own. This starts in the playground with toys where material bullying is encouraged. Im in Australia and can vouch that these attitudes are becoming global and its a mission with a sinister purpose. These material types end up with an itch they cant scratch, credit debts and mental distress as we are brainwashed into thinking that if you cannot keep up with the jones you are a loser and there is something wrong with you. Im sure this is the reason anti depressant use has sky rocketed and there are so many unhinged people about.


Have fun keeping up with the jones family because you now have to compete globally with the Lees and Singhs. But really you deserve the mental anguish for being superficial and greedy.
The lord does indeed work in mysterious ways for these people will never find peace with themselves or fellow humans, hell on earth is what it is.

I read something yesterday that was interesting and is similar to what your talking about. What people need to know is that material things and money actually become more of a burden the more you have. Read this article on the subject. Its recent.

www.savethemales.ca...

[edit on 16-7-2007 by Beefcake]

I agree. We are trained to operate in a certain manner so as to not upset the institutions that are in place, which are designed to accumulate massive wealth for only a handful of people.

Everyday we are bombarded by images that tell us to be something we are not. We are told to buy this and that, and to show our friends, and ultimately throw it away and buy something else. We are shown images of people doctored to meet someone else's idea of perfection and beauty. We are made to worship our objects and engross ourselves in their prescribed reality. This way we are distracted, why question when I can have my beer and my sports, why question when my car goes fast and has a nice stereo?? We are living a life built on some other agenda than our own, and most of the population is caught up in that they cannot wake up to it.

[edit on 16-7-2007 by Vipassana]

i concur with most of what everyone has said and it is tuff to slow down and say hey is this really what i want, are there other options and who told me i wanted this

the only things i disagree with is that some people "deserve" the anguish that may be coming. i mean they are human, there are weakness (greed) in the human condition and they may have been born into being raised that wealth is success and worry about happiness later. i mean the drive that a lot of doctor's and lawyers have getting thru school is impressive , but it can lead to obsession. the bottom line is , we need change at the structural level , and then society's attitude will change

the coming recession will be a HUGE pivotal postion in time a proverbial fork in the road, it will give people the change to snap out of there comfy lives, and this is when the structural change needs to be demanded, because at a time society is at it's weaker points, there is also more disorder and this is a time when the foundation of power is more suseptible as well to change

i think we are getting toward a time in history where the probability of certain prophecy's and predictions that are negative are being increasingly likely. i firmly believe prophecy's are just possibilities and not absolute's of course sometimes people don't change and they are fullfilled.

it is basic psychology that people will not change out of there comfy lifestyle's or priorities until they see enough (pain) in the form of a threat to decide they should change. there is going to very likely be great pain faced by many in this nation, i think a lot will go from wealthy to very poor and if they were very materialistic oriented, this will be crushing and yet this is what it will surely take for a change, because you will not see the media helping you figure out the pain that is coming, if you recognize economics and politics ( housing sector, overleveraged markets, fall of the petro dollar) you can see what is coming, the media is too busy trying to boost consumer confidence and there spin meisters's are working over time. it will be a rude awakening, but that is what it will take. i just hope it is not a knock out punch

[edit on 16-7-2007 by cpdaman]

I'm right with you on all points cpdaman. It's too bad that you can't really get people to see past this veil of deception to understand what really matters in life. I think the best you can do is to make your life an example. When people see your happiness doesn't depend on superficialities, it has an effect on some level.

I also think that it's a little deceiving when you look at society as a whole. I believe there are an enormous number of people who are just as fed up as we are with this relentless emphasis on money, consuming and competition, but they're not getting the same "air time" so to speak.

I like Beefcake's observation that people become burdened by wealth. I read an article on lottery winners, and basically it's made them miserable.

Perhaps deserve is a harsh word to use. You either have human sympathy or dont. These people buy thier luxury goods with no regard to the poverty stricken children in 3rd world countries that make them nor thier fellow countrymen struggling to eat. I think the anxiety disorders associated with this is penance enough. Thats what i was getting at the mental anquish is just. And please dont take that the wong way as i know the middle tier is not the evil and should not suffer.

cpdaman you bring up a good point about when the global economy goes kaput it is these types who will struggle to stay sane. Hopefully we will all realise what is important during these times


I feel another motive behind the materialisation of society is to fracture us from one another. I dont have the community or support network my grandparents had, i would be lucky to know my neighbours name. We seem to distrust each other cause the media tells us there is danger everywhere. We have less chance of peace and co operation with each other as a fractured society when the economy struggles. I cant help but think it is all a wonderfully orchestrated plan.

"For example, what does the billboard say? Come & play! Come & play! Forget about the movement!" - RATM

What did bill gates said what we need now is a way to just transmit into your dreams at night. I am going for they already know how to transmit into our conscience while we are asleep.

One often wonders how new fads take of, even people who do not watch adverts seem adicted.

Yep the threadstarter is right, the west has created a secular society where we all have to obsess about material things, and if your not, your an outsider.

Let's not blame others for what we do to ourselves

Originally posted by cpdaman
i have a theory that the elite system of power and thus wealth depends on engineering a society that is focused on materialism... I think that a certain structure has been created... it was prepared by a genius!

society (is) brought up to ASSOCIATE WEALTH in life with SUCCESS and make this a SOCIAL attitude, in order to make the rich richer and to keep the bankers in power.

Nobody is engineering, creating or bringing up anything. The desire for more and more material wealth is human nature -- by which I mean, it is part of what we are as animals.

Here's how it works.

Humans seek status in order to win mates. Status in human cultures is defined by certain markers, commonly termed 'status symbols'. Status symbols are usually material objects.

The love of status symbols is not confined to modern capitalist culture. It is universal. Think of the grave-goods of the Egyptian pharoahs, a Sioux war bonnet, or the Taj Mahal. Status symbols are invariably expensive, difficult or dangerous to obtain. That's what gives them their value.

Modern humans are hugely wealthy and powerful compared to their ancestors. Ordinary folk enjoy goods, resources and leisure to a degree utterly unprecedented in history. Our status symbols are correspondingly elaborate and costly.

And they keep becoming more so, because, after all, the competition for status never ends. It's like an arms race: when hardly anyone owned an automobile, a Model T Ford was enough to set you apart,. Nowadays even a Ford LTD won't cut it; you need a Hummer or a Mercedes S500. And when all the Joneses have Hummers and Mercs, what do you do to maintain that good ol' status differential? Why, you purchase a LearJet. And so it goes...

Clever folk, realizing that there's money to be made by exploiting this insatiable hunger for status, continually invent new status symbols and encourage people to buy (or at least want) them through advertising, marketing and so on.

Most of this marketing is done to low-status individuals. The objects being peddled -- mobile phones, games consoles, automobiles, vacations, holiday homes -- have little real status value. This is pretty much what keeps the world economy going nowadays. Real markers of status in twenty-first century global society are far more difficult to obtain. Money alone is not enough to procure them.

As this fantastic article clearly (and disturbingly) explains, the 'arms race' for sex and status has reached a point where it is seriously degrading the environment and endangering other species as well as ourselves.

But there's no conspiracy in it. It's just human nature at work.

Blaming others (governments, corporations, secret societies and the like) for our own drawbacks and failings as a species is not only foolish, it is (in my honest opinion) somewhat dishonourable. We should admit where the problem really lies -- within ourselves -- and try to see what, if anything, we can do about it.

We may not be able to do very much. But until we stop putting the blame on others and admit where the problem really lies, we shan't be able to do anything.

you take general observations of human nature and you extrapolate we are all responsible (which is partialy true) but, because when doing so you create a blanket statement and twist together a conclusion of equal responsibility? and hoplessness to boot

are certain fractions uncapable of being in the position of power (ruling a society) whch in today's age are the (controllers of the currency) not capable of different levels of corruption and carelessness? that are unncessesarily high? Do you not see the short sightedness of you argument. What are the potentials of this influence in EXploiting weakness in human nature, not as a coincidence, but a carefully devised plan, based on an obsession with greed, and do these people not shoulder more RESPONSIBILITY FOR MAN's Shallowness, a lack of compassion for others, and a desire to heal your fellow man only if it happens to co-incide with a patenable man made drug. You grossly under-estimate mankind's potential IMO. Could Man not be instead encouraged from birth that your ability to help others is related to success and that you can have fun along the way.

For the sake of oversimplifying, While we may not be able to live in a society where there is not one murderer, one rapist, one burglar, does this assume humanity is not capable of not being stuck in a the bottom 10 percent of our capacities and morality. Do you presume it is impossible for most of us to be born into a life where the structure exists for us to bei unjustly manipulated from birth ? Do you not see we are taught to associate wealth with success, and yet no mention of being simply in search of love and loving as something more precious than dollars to enrich one's life. could this be to keep one feeling un- satisfied, and consantly craving more and more materialism, without even having a subset of other goals in one's decison set, always striving for more, breeding greed. the reward for greed is materlistic treasure. Business's drunk on greed beleive it is only cheating if they get caught which encourages workers to be immoral and irresponsible. Like u said human beings have inherent weakness, does this mean they are not being EXPLOITED FOR GREEDY PROFIT

while it is true things could be worse, this is never a perspective to take but to quietly acknowledge while focusing on what the limits are to happiness and ways to exploit the good in man's heart and find resourceful avenues for his "untamed" nature, such as friendly competition and solitary outlets for personal discipline and accomplishment be it golf, meditation, fishing.

Invisible from the materialistic reflections of posessions is the feeling of emptiness that so many posses, coupled with the fact that only a MINORITY of the world enjoy's the luxury's. There is much to the world that U DON'T SEE. You get the pg rated version on TV. We can do MUCH BETTER. Mental illness is the invisible epidemic that inflicts the western world and feeds the pharmacutical industry's who try to convince people that they may be feeling certain symptoms of this or experiencing that, and you refer to people who exploit inherent weakness as "Clever Folk". When you have nothing else in your decision set as to what can make up your happiness besides material things you would come to the conclusion "that the competition for status never ends". and to compound the matter you again insinuate that status must always be reflected by materialism.

people rush to gain knowledge which comes at the expense of widsom. Peope rush to find truth in order to write a book or claim an ego prize. people are not born with the answers but they do have a nearly infinite capacity to learn and improve, if only others did not gain by confusing, misleading or keeping others in the dark.

because in society the response we get (poverty, violence, mental "medical conditions" few truly happy), is often the meaning of the communication ( manipulation and greed, lack of "loving reltionships=success)

we need to overhaul the system (by force if necessary) patiently and creatively change the structure (leaving some flexibility) and begin the PROCESS of identifying and sharing the knowledge of our plight , and re-educating and priotizing oursleves as well as forgive ourselves as well as those who know not what they do (heck i don't even discount the possibility our exsistance may have been dealt a poor hand by being manipulated into existance by a more mature set of beings, but that is where the self-pity should end) we are capable of doing much better and we should be realistic to determine our existance is not a right, but a privelage and something that should not be taken for granted ,neither should our window of opportunity to be capable of reaching higher into our potential.



[edit on 19-7-2007 by cpdaman]

[edit on 19-7-2007 by cpdaman]

Among the Conspirators

Originally posted by cpdaman
you take general observations of human nature and you extrapolate we are all responsible...

...opportunity to be capable of reaching higher into our potential.

Phew. What a torrent of words. All came out in a gush, eh?

No, I'm afraid I do not see what appears so obvious to you.

I've lived on this planet nearly fifty years.

I attended a good university. My educational background is in the (very hard) sciences.

I have enjoyed some success in my line of work, which used to be advertising and public affairs consulting, though I do something different now -- many things, in fact.

I have travelled widely and worked in many different countries. I believe I know my way about the world pretty well.

Through the years, I have interacted professionally and socially with regiments of CEOs and company chairmen, bankers, economists, politicians, senior development professionals, respected academics and others of that fraternity that likes to hear itself referred to as 'the great and the good'.

Never in my life and travels have I seen anything that makes me believe, even for a moment, in the sort of universal, finely planned, brilliantly implemented conspiracy you describe. Oh, I've witnessed any number of plots and conspiracies, attempts to manipulate public opinion and behaviour, sell people things they don't need and so on; but when you have the access I had, it soon becomes clear to you that:

1. Everybody has his or her own agenda. The agendas rarely coincide, so what you end up with is the rich and powerful plotting and conspiring mainly against one another.

2. The would-be manipulators are all sending out different messages, and the messages contradict and subvert one another. There is no party line.

3. Manipulating the public is hard. Ordinary folk are smarter (though also dumber) than they give themselves credit for. They are wary, unfond of change and generally suspicious of it.

4. The techniques of manipulation are primitive and largely ineffective.

5. Democracy, the rule of law and a free media are excellent safeguards against the abuses of power you so fear. They exist, and they are effective.

Anyway: if a grand conspiracy of the kind you propose actually existed, I must be the world's biggest dupe, because I never saw a scintilla of evidence for it.

And if I'm not a dupe, then I must be one of the conspirators.

I'll leave it to you to decide which.

.in my last post i do not talk about grand conspiracy's, i talk about the short comings of your first reply to this thread and it's shortsightedness and how much better things can be and how a more balanced way of life should be coveted but society is focused on money money money

because any group in power is going to frantically try to maintain this power. wether it is in business where

www.lewrockwell.com...

A cartel is an organization made up of senior managers or their representatives in an industry. Established members of an industry fear competition from newcomers. Newcomers will cut prices and thereby reduce existing companies’ profit margins. So, cartels seek government protection against newcomers. In this quest, they give lots of money to politicians’ campaigns. Then, having bought access, they seek to persuade politicians to establish legal barriers to entry in their industry. These barriers are imposed in the name of the public interest

now imagine a cartel of wealthy old money (think last names of prestige who have owning intrests in a lot of institution thru generations) they seek to protect there power, and at all costs. over the generations they have gotten it down to a science. they have the money to fund whatever they wish and the influence to have willing puppets toe whatever line they deem fit. any competition or uncontrollable information is a threat to bring about to much disorder and thus weaken there influence, and is better quelled before it even has a chance to gain momentum. this may be anything that gets people thinking they may be wise and happy to lead life away from areas where they are influential. one or two people no problem. but a society's attitude as a whole is unacceptable. the media is owned buy a tight knit group that enforces these attitudes on people and molds and shapes them thru tV, radio, and newspapers. it used to be relgion, and now that we are more "technologically advanced" it is the instituions of learning and the very creators of currency and money where these biggest manipulators and there willing (paid for puppets reside)

you said

Anyway: if a grand conspiracy of the kind you propose actually existed, I must be the world's biggest dupe, because I never saw a scintilla of evidence for it.

And if I'm not a dupe, then I must be one of the conspirators

are you supposing that you must be a big dupe, because you have been able to get a degreee, make a few bucks, and travel a round the world and thus surely you would have been able to see something that has orignated long before you were born? and has been critiqued and funnelled (or funded) generation after generation thru channels of immense influence and power and trusted because of some authoritarian "prestige"and last names. have u looked? have u looked thru a persective where u try to prove i am wrong? (doubt it)

Oh, I've witnessed any number of plots and conspiracies, attempts to manipulate public opinion and behaviour, sell people things they don't need and so on; but when you have the access I had, it soon becomes clear to you that:....The would-be manipulators are all sending out different messages, and the messages contradict and subvert one another. There is no party line

so you were in business advertising and marketing, this is where there is a lot of greed and manipulation but this is not where i determined the big manipulators reside. but such all powerful conspirators would not need be visible everywhere if there was a basic infrastructure and "rule book" to follow regarding manipulating people to the finest. as long as they are indoctrinated into it by those who have before them, with minor adjustments to meet the times, thru education, religion and now media, there is no need to be everywhere. have you ever read the protocols of the learned elder of zion. Google it read it. I care not if it is not an"official gov't doc't" but it was not conceived out of crazy cookiness either. it was well thought out and shows a level of coldness and demand for control of and toward people in general, sort of the way we look at animals (something to care for if it enriches your own lives,but also something to heard when we like to eat)

Ever heard of the BIS bank of international settlements. They co-ordinate central banks around the world. These central banks are privately owned and essentailly control a nation's currency and thus it's economy. They do so without co-ordinating any of there goals, or motivations with the Elected Gov't officials IN FINANCE! WE CAN DO BETTER!

www.lewrockwell.com...

Those few people who understand the inherent moral fraud in all fractional reserve banking find that they are not understood by their peers. They also find that their arguments are not taken seriously by academic economists.

They find it difficult to explain why the entire profession has made a monumental methodological error in not applying the theory of monopoly to central banking. The answer is close at hand: self-interest.

The doctrine of self-interest is the academic economists’ equivalent of the mirror. They want everyone else to look into it. They refuse to look into it themselves.

The doctrine of economic self-interest, when pursued consistently, eventually raises the question of conspiracy. Conspiracy is the economists’ equivalent of the satanist’s crucifix: an inverted Christ. They cry out, "conspiracy theorist!" whenever they find someone who follows the money back to the source of the money. This accusation usually works. Every Ph.D.-holding academic turns aside his face and holds up his cape – or leather elbow patch – to shield himself

are you confusing a misunderstanding (being duped) with an overall defining character traiti? (the biggest dupe in the world) and u may see this as a miniscule point, but it helps to highlight how you don't take it seriously. If you don't look for things from a certain perspective u may never have pondered, no matter how smart you , you may not ever see them. if you don't put them into a historical text it may seem like something that requires too much congruence .

WE CAN DO much better and mabe when more people in the united states lose there comfy lifestyles (i really wish it would not take this) they will awaken to the fact that now that it is not them who gets the spoils of this poor system, that it does indeed need a structural change

now please excuse any spelling errors i am off to work and am running late




[edit on 19-7-2007 by cpdaman]

You completely ignored the meat of my previous post, which is in the five numbered points I made. I wondered how you might respond to them, though I must say I'm no longer very curious about it.

There is little more we can say to each other, you see. You and I live in different mental worlds.

You believe in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which I regard as a vicious racist hate-fantasy that fouls the paper on which it is printed. You think politically independent central banks are a conspiracy, while I think they exist to protect citizens from the rapacity of governments and are on all accounts a Good Thing. You think there is an 'inherent moral fraud in all fractional reserve banking'; I think the 'moral fraud', if there is one, inheres in the concept of money itself.

I know how my ideas and beliefs have served me and where they have taken me in this world. Where are yours taking you?

Good luck with that, my friend.

[edit on 20-7-2007 by Astyanax]

the amount of suffering on the planet is alot higher than it could be, should be, and has to be, and some people are born w/o a chance, especially outside of the U.S

and if you read my post and listened to the entire things you would see how i addressed your points, it can't be done on a bullet to bullet ,point for point chart if you can't see the forest from the trees, and your observations IMO are looking at the lower levels of people (the dog eat dog) business world fighting eachother.

well at least we were able to stay civil w/ each other. We agree to disagree and the focus of my thread as you can see from the title is that the world is way too focused on materialism and this is because it is a deliberate attempt to expoit the weaknesses in the human condition on many fronts (and from my perspective) is the result of a centralized powerful cartel and many of the puppets are just playing the game cause they know of no other way to live

Originally posted by cpdaman
your observations IMO are looking at the lower levels of people (the dog eat dog) business world fighting eachother.

I know I should keep my great flapping trap shut, but I can't resist.

How much personal experience have you, cpdaman, at life at the 'upper levels'?

Remember now, personal experience. Personal.

are you implying since i am not part of the Council on Foreign Relations or the British Masonic Elite and internatioanal "banksters" that i am incapable of forming an accurate assesment of them based on there policy's , statements, and propoganda.

you can keep yapping all u wish, my friend

i just think the world needs to re-arrange it's perspectives so there is more balance and less obsession with monetary wealth and more of a help others attitude, and it will snowball.

abolishing the federal reserve is a start. do you know what role the federal government plays in setting the federal reserve's monetary policy. NOne , zip , zilch, zero, . ZERo imput , no say what so ever. the fed reserve sets monetary policy for the united states which directly effects the economy enourmously yet the federal government has zero imput. the federal reserve is on the record as saying suggesting that the gov't has any say is unacceptable. ?????? banksters



[edit on 21-7-2007 by cpdaman]

Originally posted by cpdaman
are you implying since i am not part of the Council on Foreign Relations or the British Masonic Elite and internatioanal "banksters" that i am incapable of forming an accurate assesment of them based on there policy's , statements, and propoganda.

I wasn't implying anything. You confidently informed me that the people I had interacted with weren't part of this secret 'upper-level' conspiracy. That kind of confidence implies knowledge, so I asked you how much experience of this fabled upper crust you yourself had. It's a reasonable question. I simply want to know what makes you so confident that this conspiracy exists, and that you are right.

But you keep avoiding the question. I asked it before, in a different way, remember? I asked you what conspiracies you yourself had discovered, not from media sources or books but from your own personal, real-life experience. You didn't answer that.

So, for the last time before this starts to get boring, he we go:

Q: What makes you believe that this conspiracy you're telling us about exists?

I would also like to ask you what makes you believe that this conspiracy is the cause of all human avarice, venality and cupidity.

you can keep yapping all u wish, my friend

There really was no call for that.

So far, I've patiently responded to everything you've said, explaining my position as clearly as I could and even telling readers of this thread rather a lot about myself, something I am not entirely comfortable about. You've responded by avoiding questions and ignoring my explanations.

Instead, you keep telling me things like this, as if they prove your point, which they don't:

do you know what role the federal government plays in setting the federal reserve's monetary policy. NOne , zip , zilch, zero, . ZERo imput , no say what so ever.

Yes, I knew that. It's one of the things that make America a free country. I'm all in favour of it. People who have seen what governments do to monetary policy almost always are.

I really think it's time you provided some answers. You know what people are going to think if you don't.

Three days gone. Still no reply.

Yoohoo cpdaman, I'm still waiting!

Hello-o! Anybody home?

Well, since you don't have any answers for me, I guess your conspiracies don't have any basis in real experience. You're just repeating nonsense you've read and heard in the media.

Thought as much.

I have my angry boots on.

Give me and tent and I'm sweet.

PS. Chill not everyone comes on every day.

But then again, the pedantic arguments of the armchair generals on ATS bore me to no end.

[edit on 24-7-2007 by seenitall]