Al-Qaeda threatens 'response' to Rushdie knighthood

Al-Qaeda threatens 'response' to Rushdie knighthood

www.breitbart.com

"I say to (Britain's Queen) Elizabeth and (former British Prime Minister Tony) Blair that your message has reached us and we are in the process of preparing for you a precise response," Zawahiri said in an audio recording posted on an Internet website often used by Islamic militants.

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.telegraph.co.uk

Another threat by Al Qaeda's #2 tells us that the UK is in store for this war to be brought even closer to home.

The question I have is what is the precise response that they are planning?

Another recent article by the Telegraph has an interview with the Ex -Head in MI5 stating the threat of nuclear terrorism is a very real possibility.

In a stark warning for the future, Dame Eliza added: "It remains a very real possibility that they may, sometime, somewhere attempt a chemical biological, radiological or even nuclear attack".

With all the current events that have happened in the UK this past month, it seems that Al Qaeda stepping up the rhetoric and possible attacks in the near future.

www.breitbart.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


[edit on 10-7-2007 by build319]

Well they'd better recall their operatives for some serious retraining if the previous 3 attempts are anything to go by.

Yeah no kidding. You never know with these groups though, they get the right guys in there to 'take care of business' so to speak and boom! We have another 7/7/05 on our hands.

Let the UK terrorize themselves with fear. (If not this, then with something else.) While I'm sure AQ has their own problems with the UK, they're ((still)) after Rushdie...

I wonder what Rushdie's gonna do now... He was, for all intents and purposes, in exile for 10 years because of The Satanic Rituals -- because it portrayed Mohammad.

My other thought: AQ (so far as we know) is the one having problems with Rushdie. How do the rest of the Islamic faith feel about him and his book? Have they forgiven him?

Well do Christians and Muslims need to unite and violently react to Richard Dawkins for his book "The God Delusion"?

Rushdie has been on the Al Qaeda hit list for a very very longtime. Now they can use his Knighthood as an excuse to attack Britain further.

Any excuse to attack your enemy. Look at politics

Originally posted by build319
Well do Christians and Muslims need to unite and violently react to Richard Dawkins for his book "The God Delusion"?

Maybe they should, since his "The Selfish Gene" is bull plop...


I'm of the same opinion you are: leave Rusdie alone. It's a book, it's fiction, get over it.

But we were raised differently.

I don't mean that as an excuse. It's simply a matter of cultural difference that, at least to some extent, has serious context value in this debate. We may not agree with it, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to understand it. (The only way to untwist twisted logic is to work backwards.)

Rushdie has been on the Al Qaeda hit list for a very very longtime. Now they can use his Knighthood as an excuse to attack Britain further.

Any excuse to attack your enemy. Look at politics

Excuses run rampant these days, and too many people are trigger happy (on both sides). But, just because they're using Rushdie as an excuse, let us not use their (b.s.) excuse as an excuse of our own. (That's a logical fallacy: Tu Quoque.)

We can try and understand it all we want but it simply doesn't matter, imo

It *is* a cultural issue because of a hijacked religion preaching violence instead of dialog. This is a cultural issue because we don't see many Amish ready to kill the blasphemers for driving cars. This is a cultural issue because the Middle East region has not seen any other way to live than violence in many generations time.

Understanding that isn't going to solve anything. The radical fundamentalists will use any reason to attack. That was my point. The solution is unfortunately less easy.

How do you fight a fight in circumstances like this without destroying the region completely? All we are doing is reinforcing their cultural upbringing and keeping the population acclimated to violence. But if we do nothing the radicals will just continue on their plan for domination.

That is a true quagmire. Fight them and anger the region. Do nothing and risk it all.

Originally posted by build319
We can try and understand it all we want but it simply doesn't matter, imo

It matters because we have to deal with it. And with that motto, little to no understanding will ever take place. Indeed, why bother to understand anything if you've decided beforehand that it "doesn't matter"?

The idea that someone's beliefs/values/principles "don't matter", or that the person/people themselves "don't matter" is what got humanity here (in this violent non-understanding non-mattering squabble) in the first place.

It *is* a cultural issue because of a hijacked religion preaching violence instead of dialog.

AQ hijacked it, yes. But the religion itself (if you look into the Qu'ran) is in two parts: one half is violent, and the other half is peaceful.

In fact, check out The Moderate Martyr. There are Islamic people who are not violent, and the religion has NOT ALWAYS been violent.

This is a cultural issue because the Middle East region has not seen any other way to live than violence in many generations time.

Then why did the Middle East have better universities and more educated people than America ((before we bombed them back into caves)??

Nevermind the fact that we're not showing them any better of a way to live by bombing the heck outta them...

Understanding that isn't going to solve anything. The radical fundamentalists will use any reason to attack. That was my point. The solution is unfortunately less easy.

Understanding might get us one step closer to coming up with a solution that won't beget more violence.

Violence, no matter how right or righteous we think it might be, begets more violence. Period.

But, hey... surely *this* time violence will lead to world peace!!

"Insanity: Doing the same thing twice, and expecting different results." -Einstein.

All we are doing is reinforcing their cultural upbringing and keeping the population acclimated to violence. But if we do nothing the radicals will just continue on their plan for domination.

We can no longer do nothing because we did something to instigate the whole quagmire. (Nice word choice, btw!) We poked the hive, got pissed when they retalliated and stung us, and now we're wondering why the sprays don't work to keep them away.


Can we even remember the reasons why AQ is angry with us anymore? Did they ever enumerate them? Or are we just tacking on issues so that we have something to debate about?

Diseria, this has been a great debate so far and I appreciate your straight forward talk without getting into anything political and just stating the facts as they are.

I believe you and I feel the same way about this whole issue but may have different ideas on the "How can this madness stop?!?!" part.

Now with that being said..... off to my point!

Can we even remember the reasons why AQ is angry with us anymore? Did they ever enumerate them? Or are we just tacking on issues so that we have something to debate about?

Yes, I know exactly why Al Qaeda is upset with the U.S. or at least what the excuse is. Osama Bin Laden became angry at the Saudi govt. after they allowed U.S. forces to be stationed there during Iraq War Part 1. He said it was outrageous to have the American infidels stationed in the Holy Land and Saudi Arabia only put up with the U.S. because they didn't want to have to deal with Iraq themselves.

....I'm still not to my point yet, I am sorry about this. I will try and hurry things up here. I'm a little too ADHD sometimes

Anyhow, as I stated above, this is what they say started the conflict between Al Qaeda and the United States, in a nutshell at least. But I feel that was just a catalyst to a fire that was just waiting to be started.

My belief is that Al Qaeda has wanted to establish an Islamic world for a long time to rival any caliphate ever to exist. The key is to use these excuses to instigate hatred towards a common enemy to achieve these goals.

I believe if we backed out, this would embolden them further to a point where we may not be able to stop them.

It scares me to see that Pew research poll stating that 25% of young American Muslims support acts such as suicide bombing against civilian targets.

That type of thinking is just so amazing to me considering these are American born youth who have lived here their whole life. But they want Islamic rule over America and the UK. You think if we turn tail and run this will just stop?

I think all sides of this conflict need a swift kick in the pants. I just don't know and can't see how this can end until one side gives up. The question is what will the other side do? Leave well enough alone or go in for the kill?

Originally posted by build319
Diseria, this has been a great debate so far and I appreciate your straight forward talk without getting into anything political and just stating the facts as they are.

And I must extend the same appreciation and gratitude to you.

But, don't thank me too much. I'm just an idealist who cannot understand the (supposed) 'importance' of the politics involved. I'm interested in the ideas driving the anger and the misunderstanding. (That's why I'm advocating that we try our damnedest to understand the 'enemy', instead of this ludicrous and vain stance of bombing the problem away.)

There are sooo many larger issues at hand that the little petty fights between individual countries have become inane to me. And that's where my understanding fails -- I'm an impartial observer without the historical context. I'm looking at the big picture, trying desperately to understand the ideas driving people's actions... and I just don't get the point to holding onto old grudges. (And yes, I was raised with "Why can't we all just get along?" )

I believe you and I feel the same way about this whole issue but may have different ideas on the "How can this madness stop?!?!" part.

And it's those differences in ideas that can, hopefully, propagate some solution. ((The only unfortunate part is that we are outsiders to AQ and to the Muslim faith. The only people who can truly instill any change in a group is someone from that group. I don't know if I've already posted it here, or on another thread, but check out The Moderate Martyr. In short, a man in the 60's-70's began pushing the peaceful half of the Qu'ran. He got killed for it, but the movement hasn't stopped.

Yes, I know exactly why Al Qaeda is upset with the U.S. or at least what the excuse is. Osama Bin Laden became angry at the Saudi govt. after they allowed U.S. forces to be stationed there during Iraq War Part 1. He said it was outrageous to have the American infidels stationed in the Holy Land and Saudi Arabia only put up with the U.S. because they didn't want to have to deal with Iraq themselves.

Ahh... "American infidels". Yes, you're right -- this wasn't the start. So, let's dig deeper...

....I'm still not to my point yet, I am sorry about this. I will try and hurry things up here. I'm a little too ADHD sometimes

It's okay, me too. However, I'm grateful for this tangent because we are establishing a common ground... a common understanding.

My belief is that Al Qaeda has wanted to establish an Islamic world for a long time to rival any caliphate ever to exist. The key is to use these excuses to instigate hatred towards a common enemy to achieve these goals.

A sharp and distinct line must be drawn between AQ's understanding of Mohammed's teachings, and everyone else's. Another line must be drawn between the two parts of the Qu'ran, one peaceful, one violent. Like any fundamentalist group, AQ picks and chooses which beliefs to uphold, while vehemently saying that they speak the truth about the Qu'ran as a whole.

Example: There's a passage about if your wife misbehaves, you are to "beat her (lightly)". And everyone knows this passage thanks to the AQ.

However, I'm willing to bet that that's a mis-translation because Mohammad had 12 wives over the course of his life and, even in the violent times, he NEVER hit them. He believed his wives to be equals to him, and often talked with them about the problems his people faced.

A complete tangent, but it's these little things that make the AQ so heinous in everyone else's eyes -- including other Muslims.

I wouldn't mind being Muslim. It might just cultivate a sense of community and social responsibility that the American 'culture' has not. But I don't want to be an AQ Muslim...

I believe if we backed out, this would embolden them further to a point where we may not be able to stop them.

Again, it depends on why they're angry. If they're angry because we 'trespassed', then perhaps it might do some good to meaningfully apologize. (Not that the US would ever actually *do* that, but I'm just saying...) If they're angry because of our so-called 'culture' and how we're engendering entire generations to be commodities, to embrace materialism and money... Well, sorry, but they've got a damn fine point.

I know that there's no one reason why they're angry with us. Nothing is ever so simple, *especially* with religion involved. But at least if we could work through the list one-by-one, we might just come up with a compromise... (Enter the real problem: The US is terrible with compromising -- a petulant child that's used to getting its way.)

It scares me to see that Pew research poll stating that 25% of young American Muslims support acts such as suicide bombing against civilian targets.

That type of thinking is just so amazing to me considering these are American born youth who have lived here their whole life.

If someone had given me a bomb when I was a teenager, my high skool would be missing a wing. (*thinks* ....or the pool! )

Point is:
A) They're young, they're angry, they've no context yet. AQ is catching them at a time when the world seems against 'em, and they have no understanding of how to properly re/act (in fact, their brains are trying to figure that out -- which creates the anger).
B) The American climate is not exactly Muslim-friendly, nevermind the world climate, so is it that hard to understand why they are so eager to lash out?
C) Where's the rebel love!? Surely I wasn't the only rebellious teenager...
D) Civilians are the easy target. If I could figure out how to (1) get a bomb (2) into where it really counts, and (3) take out the people who are keeping the # going (financially, ideologically, et cetera)... Well, let's just leave it that I don't think I'm alone on this one.

There are a ga-zillion possible reasons why a youth would support such acts.

The question that I'm curious about (and am not too sure I'd be happy seeing the figures for) is whether they support it to the point of carrying it out themselves. *That* is the scary part. (People supported the war without being asked to pull the trigger...)

But they want Islamic rule over America and the UK. You think if we turn tail and run this will just stop?

No, it won't stop. But, I would absolutely love it if the US stepped out of the world ring and took care of its own. I'm with Canada and Sweden on this: defend your land, and don't mess with other people.

At least if we did that, and AQ came over for an un-friendly visit, everyone would feel righteous in defending their homeland, instead of invading someone else's.

I think all sides of this conflict need a swift kick in the pants. I just don't know and can't see how this can end until one side gives up. The question is what will the other side do? Leave well enough alone or go in for the kill?

While I agree with your sentiment, remember that the swift kick is yet another act of violence. (Did I also mention that I'm a pacifist? )

The problem with petulant children and teenagers is that they don't know enough to know when to stop, nor do they possess the intestinal fortitude and discipline to actually stop.

IF change will ever happen, I have to believe that it'll happen within the people. (I'm with Jesus on this one.) No external authority figure can force good behavior onto people. (This is another topic for discussion, but one that I wrestle with everyday. All we can do is suggest, provide our reasons, and wait for the other side to either come around, or mull it over and continue the discussion. But this takes forever, and people want change NOW... which leads to this hands-on mess...)

[edit on 11-7-2007 by Diseria]

I promise I'll keep this one short.

While I was writing the above post, Korn's 'Children of the Korn' came on randomly. I had to pause, because this is the music that I listened to when I was an angry teenager. (And I know I'm getting old because I actually turned it down... ugh.)

Anyhow, here's a snippet:

"Feel me! Feel me! Feel me!
How you gonna tell me where to skate, who to date,
how to #, how to kiss, who to love, who to diss,
how to live. What it is, somethin' gotta give.
Parents or the kids, it won't be the kids.
What? It won't be the kids.
We're talking #, 'cause life is a bitch.
You know it is. Everybody tryin' to get rich. God damn!
All I wanna do is live. All I wanna do is live.
[snip]
Stop #ing with me..."


Be it religious, political, whatever. Ideas are ideas, and no one is correct in strong-arming others into complying. No matter how perfect or morally correct the idea is, you cannot force your opinion. It is just wrong.

Both sides need a good reminder about that, imo.