Speed of Light vs The Bible

The thing with religion is that you have people who have a belief structure that has been reinforced to become Truth. Now when something new tests their beliefs they regurgitate what they already know to make it null and void or misidentified. It sounds kinda like "brainwashing".

With science people claim that certain things are facts and laws, and theories are yet to be fully proven. But when something new and shocking happens, these minds tend to study it, evaluate, and attempt to accept it.

To me science seems to be a developing way of thinking while religion is a set in stone, "I am never wrong" set of beliefs.

According to this article the Universe is a 156 Billion Light-years Wide!

www.space.com...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.transparencynow.com...

The limitations of science - Electric Universe
www.holoscience.com...

Try thinking outside the box. lol (no pun intended) What if both reality and time are an illusion ? If so. Therefore how can anybody argue that the universe is 14 billion years old or even 6000 years old. If this reality is simply a simulation running on a very powerful quantum computer, then it is only as old as when the simulation was first activated or turned on. Maybe the simulation was activated 10,000 years ago as the bible states? Maybe GOD is simply a programmer who likes writing & playing games.

YOUNG-EARTH CREATIONISM

Against overwhelming evidence that the Big Bang occurred billions of years ago, argues that the earth and the universe are only 6,000 - 10,000 years old. Interprets all evidence in light of a traditional / literal understanding of Scripture, specifically that in the space of 6 literal days (144 hours), the entire known universe was spoken into existence, the earth was created, and all life forms, including humans, were created on earth — within the last 10,000 years.

www.simulation-argument.com... Are we living inside a computer?
www.spaceandmotion.com...

Simulation, Consciousness, Existence

www.frc.ri.cmu.edu...

When the answers are not forthcoming. Our limitless imagination is all we have to go on.

“All that we are is the result of what we have thought. The mind is everything. What we think we become.” Buddha.






[edit on 13-8-2007 by kindred]

Very interesting topic. In fact I just joined because of this line of discussion. I have been roaming around the site here and there looking into top secret aircraft and the likes.

In regard to "the speed of light vs. the Bible"...

First if one believes in the Bible as the inspired word of God (and I do, yet not by any brain-washing, preacher, peer, parent, etc but by the God given choice we all have to believe as we desire) one would believe that God created all. The problem is when we put a time frame on the God of the Bible who lives in an eternal state.

For example: If everything is 6,000 years old, or even a billiondy-eight years old where was God all the time before that? If God is eternal, and I believe he is, God is not bound by time, yet created time for us (seasons, months, days, hours, etc).

As for the speed of light, I love the physics associated with this topic. I agree with the writer 100%. Yet when we bring this into the perspective of the God of the Bible, he clearly creates things both new, and things with age/maturity. If he is in fact God, creating something as a star and puting all light in it's place, the moon, and planets in their place, the axis of the Earths spin, the orbit around the Sun and all things we know of, then he certainly he can do this despite an objects/bodies true/supposed age.

posted by Aeronautical7
As for the speed of light, I love the physics associated with this topic. I agree with the writer 100%. Yet when we bring this into the perspective of the God of the Bible, he clearly creates things both new, and things with age/maturity. If he is in fact God, creating something as a star and puting all light in it's place, the moon, and planets in their place, the axis of the Earths spin, the orbit around the Sun and all things we know of, then he certainly he can do this despite an objects/bodies true/supposed age.

Sounds as if you think GOD is a jokester? Rather than doing creation in a straightforward way, HIM being prescient decided to “FOOL” us by trickery. Whereas the laws of physics are NOT immutable. Those of us who reject outright the Shroud of Turin as it is represented by the true believers, may well be wrong because GOD figured how to manipulate Carbon 14 to lure us science types into unfounded confidence. Or smudge the prisms so that astronomers were mislead to think the red shift indicated the origin of the Universe was 13.7 b. years ago. And DNA that shows us humans share 10% of our genes with oak trees? Another joke by GOD on us dumb humans.

I dunno A7, if I thought GOD would do that, I’d be mad too.

[edit on 8/15/2007 by donwhite]

The bible tells stories, so is the factor of time and distance in those stories really mean anything? What is 7 god days I don't know. Obviously the people who wrote the bible are human even if they had divined influence in writing it. If god started an asteroid on a 10 Billion year journey to pass the earth when Moses needed the sea parted to allow him and his people to across and the army that after them to parish as the gravitational pull ended would it be any less of a feat?

Your comparison was "The Speed of Light" vs "The Bible" I merely took common Biblical knowledge dipicting the attributes and abilities of God and gave an area to think about.

Today's phsyics and all laws of science WE have developed over the time of our existance are in place (I do not question this...i.e. An apple falls, we have a law of science in place to explain "why"). I do not believe God was joking around when he created all things according to the Bible. I stated that if he had the ability to speak all things into existance, He would also, as God, have the ability to create things in a matured state (many examples dipicted in the Bible).

The importance therein lying in the fact that God is not, and was not bound by time. Upon completion of creation according to Genesis, time was made and all things were set in motion.

This said, nothing is meant to insult you, nor your understanding of the physical nature of "how things work" but rather objectively give "light" to the God of the Bible.

From the Christian standpoint, there are a few possible explanations. One is the "Gap" theory, in which an unknown amount of time passed between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. "In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was void, and without form, and the spirit of God hovered over the depths." Basically, the theory is that God created everything, then it was destroyed at some point by a massive flood that killed everything. Basically what would have happened during the Great Deluge if God found none righteous in His sight. This theory was created by a common translation from the original Hebrew. The word used in Gen 1:2 that we translate as "was" is "hayah", which means to become or became.

The other thought, and the one that I believe in, is that God created the Earth with age. That means that everything was created to function like a much older planet. Also, God may have created the Universe in Gen 1:1 and then waited for a few billion years to create light, water, land, and life. After all, an eternal being doesn't really need to rush things, and may have taken some time to explore His creation before deciding to share it with the life He created on Earth. Therefore, the Earth may be several billion years old, and the universe even older. It was pre-life, and before our understanding of time, so how long the Earth sat around is completely up in the air.

Before people start calling me a heretic and say "The Bible says 7 days, that's only 7 days!" I want to say, yes, you're completely correct, and I do not disagree with you. But look at what God created on those 7 days. Not the Earth or the Universe. Makes sense to me that he enjoyed His creation for a few billion years (space/time) and then decided to take a week to make a nice place for further creation to appreciate the wonders of His original creation.

Sorry to ramble, but there is a lot of thought on this topic and I actually had to go from lurker to registered just for this single comment.

(Sorry Dark Elf, I missed your reply on the top of the last page. Same concept, just a little more info on it.)

[edit on 24-8-2007 by Taliesin]

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was[a] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.

Id say that THE first day meant only one thing...THE first day.

there is only one THE first day in history.

Thats just my take, I believe God created everything about 6000 years ago. not billions. I think God would have told us if there was a gap.

Satan (Lucifer) was in the garden of eden (read Ezekiel) at the end of the creation and God said everything was very good. there could not have been a great deluge between vs 1 and 2 for this to occur if Satan is in the garden of eden and everything is still very good. if he was in the garden as a bad guy, God could not have looked at everything and said it to be very good. God would be lying.

I understand the reasoning for man to want to measure distances of stars and heavenly bodies to confirm his own existence. However, measuring time and distance in space and say it is fact is only a way for Big Bang theorists to continue to rebel and disprove God. Everything about distant space is a theory in man's mind. It's a comfort measure for B-B theorists to know he has outsmarted God thinking he figured out how old or at what distance a star is, then try to disprove Creation.

We cannot put the Creator in a box and try to figure out in man's own way how He did it. There are areas out in the universe that are a black canvas with nothing visible to the 3-D eye. God is multi-dimensional. He may only let us see what He wants to reveal at that time. God created the laws of physics, and we probably touched on only a nanometer of what is to be learned. "God created the expanse, He made the stars." He can make it expand, and He can Create!

Find comfort in this. Faith, it is bigger than science!

NICE POST!

I also wanted to point out one other fact since it seems to be a hindrance to those who are stuck in the middle.

Facts:
We dont know what is out in space between us and the stars.
We know of some things that are between us and the stars (ex: space)
we know that light travels at 299 792 458 m / s thats about 1.2 seconds to the moon.

one major concept we often set aside when measuring star distance and its relevance to the age of the earth is this: the speed of light can vary. it can be accelerated and decelerated, and it can actually be brought to a stop.

here is an example of it being slowed down and sped up.
www.news.harvard.edu...
www.scienceblog.com...
partners.nytimes.com...

its possible that this can occur in space without our knowledge and can be the explanation as to why we can see stars that are millions of light years away even though it is believed that the earth is only 6,000 years old.

This is just a theory and my opinion. anyone else think this is a possible explanation?

Originally posted by AngelintheWilderness
However, measuring time and distance in space and say it is fact is only a way for Big Bang theorists to continue to rebel and disprove God.

This is just silly.

There are many theistic physicists who see the big-bang as the point of creation. The theory itself was originally proposed by a priest...

There are many theistic physicists who see the big-bang as the point of creation. The theory itself was originally proposed by a priest...

dang! you all need to stop with the "this idea was thought of by this kind of person"
it doesnt really matter who thought of anything.
just because someone says something, doesnt make them right.
a lot of people get some weird ideas that go against their own beliefs. that doesnt make them right or wrong and it doesnt discredit those people who are of the same belief.

If my pastor decides to believe and convey to the world that the earth wasnt created by God,... that doesnt make him right, that doesnt make it truth to the rest of the church and it doesnt change the facts or doctrine.

[edit on 3-9-2007 by Methuselah]

Originally posted by Methuselah
dang! you all need to stop with the "this idea was thought of by this kind of person"

a lot of people get some weird ideas that go against their own beliefs. that doesnt make them right or wrong and it doesnt discredit those people who are of the same belief.

errm, dang!

Can you tell me the context of my reply? Try to focus...

reply to post by Methuselah


Methuselah, I am with you friend. I am not here to disprove anyones opinion, about the Big-Bang. God's fingerprint is on everything in the Universe, He Created it. The Big-Bang is a theory, as there are many others, by brilliant people. But we need to see it as through the Creator's eyes and think of how it came to be through the Creator's mind.

We needn't use these theories to disprove God's existence. In the end all will know of His Creative works, without a doubt.

Aye, the big-bang is 'just' a scientific theory, and as such it has evidence.

Which is more than we can say for the notion of god. That's an assertion. A mere hypothesis.

Not much better than asserting that interdimensional fairies exist at the bottom of my garden.

I Like how you completely ignored my response to your wildly incorrect claim...

[edit on 3-9-2007 by melatonin]

Can you tell me the context of my reply? Try to focus...

its self explanatory, just read your post again, and then my post. and yes, please try to focus. if I can do it I know you can.

Originally posted by Methuselah
its self explanatory, just read your post again, and then my post. and yes, please try to focus. if I can do it I know you can.

Oh. I see. I understood your post.

The problem was that the post I was replying to was essentially saying that big bang cosmology is being put forward to 'rebel against god' and all that jazz.

So I respond showing how that is clearly wrong by presenting people who are actually theists who have worked on this theory.

Now, anyone with decent logical faculties would see what I did, and why I did it.

But, you would rather me not bother bringing forth such evidence. OK. Dang! 'Tis a bugger when facts get in the way of good BS.

[edit on 5-9-2007 by melatonin]

just because a theist works on this theory and compromises his faith to make both theories work in order to make peace.... doesnt make it anymore of an accurate theory. people try all the time to get the big bang, billions of years and evolution to fit in with the bible and it simply does not.
people come up with things like the Gap theory in attempt to resolve conflict between Creation and Evolution when it remains impossible.

Originally posted by Methuselah
just because a theist works on this theory and compromises his faith to make both theories work in order to make peace.... doesnt make it anymore of an accurate theory. people try all the time to get the big bang, billions of years and evolution to fit in with the bible and it simply does not.

Well, yeah, having theists accept and actually be involved in it doesn't mean the theory is true.

However, it does mean that the theory is not 'rebellion' against some sky fairy. It is just a theory formed from the evidence, and consistent with the evidence.

How are they compromising their faith? They hold their own interpretation of their faith. You hold yours. The fact yours is completely inconsistent with the real-world is your problem, not theirs, heh.

[edit on 6-9-2007 by melatonin]

alright because i don't feel like reading to find out if this answer is here or not but i feel as some one who was around i should explain stars are older than the earth yes God created some of them before he made angelss then completed the stars much then he made the earth about 11000 years ago plan and simple answer not to complicated and yes you can trace that number with the lineage leading to Jesus then add 2007 simply math and common sense if those stars already existed there light would have been shining here where earth is so placing earth here would mean the stars would be visible.........like if there was a star no visible yet and you flew a couple miles out into space you would start to see it then reverse and you would.......got it is that a very satisfying answer?