They Come From Within

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Originally posted by russ1969
I was just thinking about that last thing you said about it not looking good for the nuts and bolts ufologist. And it made me think of something about the storys of back engineered ufo's. Lets say we did find a ufo back in the forties and have back engineered one. It still may be possible there is life on another planet that has built craft based on the same type of demensional manifestations we have experienced. Humans seem to assume for the most part that our existence and progression is mainstream and we cannot see to far ahead of that. here is an example, if you where an ant your daily life is routine but also very complex. But with all thats going on around you , You never see the odvious that is really going on in the world. When we start measuring and labling everything around us, we limit ourselves to the real answers. Time and space is only relevent to size. What if our whole universe is just an atom in a much bigger picture? looking at it that way makes everything almost meaningless. Sorry, Im getting way ahead of the topic at hand. My main point is the possibility of both manifested and nuts and bolts ufo's existing and the reason why it is so hard to find out the truth behind it all. And the third factor is our own craft that only our government knows about exist with them. Just brings more complexity to the table. Not that this thread isnt complex in itself. It takes your mind somewhere that makes you see lots of things and someone like me comes on and rambles My thoughts till they hardly make sense. Sorry, hope you get what i am saying. As you can see i am not a writer.

I dont deny that there could be intelligent life in the rest of the galaxy. I dont deny there might be Type 2 civilizations out there. I think most of the UFO phenomena is not from a Type 2 Civ though. I dont see us back engineering any Type 2 Civ Technology. It would be like Ancient Greeks or worse (Cave Men) trying to Back Engineer a Stealth Bomber, Space Shuttle, or Satellite. I think it would be highly improbable.

I understand your point. This is just my opinion but from what Ive seen the military and the government seem to know just as much as we do. They dont want others to realize that. The "Cover Up" about UFOs and Aliens seems to be more Propaganda and Disinformation. Propaganda in that Secret US aircraft can operate around the world without people thinking they are US aircraft and keeping competitors wondering if we really do have Alien Technology in our Arsenal. As disinformation it deflects from actual investigation and research. It hides the military's and government's ignorance. Thats just my opinion though.

Could Type 2 Civs be visting or observing earth? I cant imagine why a Type 2 Civ would not be watching earth. They could even visit, but I dont think the Abduction or UFO Phenomena represents a Type 2 Civ. If we were able to sit down and talk to an alien from a Type 2 Civ I really believe they would tell us theyve been experiencing the same phenomena. I wouldnt be surprised if they said they weren't exactly sure what it is either.

[edit on 8/8/07 by MikeboydUS]

What about a type three civilization?

This universe (the physical world) might be a virtual reality playground for them. Most of us might just be computer programs.

reply to post by Alien Abduct


I'm still researching and studying not only for this, but also school right now. I have had some bizarre experiences not too long ago with what you might call The Other. One thing I have read about people who investigate and research this kind of anomalous phenomena, is that eventually they experience it firsthand. For many people this is a struggle.

It is a stuggle that strains the sanity and even life of those involved. Some people like those involved in psychic related military programs find themselves corrupted mentally to the point where fantasy and reality merge into a kind of hyperreality. Often this drives people to alcohol, drugs, mental illness, and failure.

I think from the Phenomena's perspective it may be a game, challenge or trial. It could even be called an Initiation. A very dangerous ordeal with severe consequences for those who are not ready.

There is a quote: "Fools rush in where Wizards fear to tread" Sometimes the quote says Angels instead of Wizards. I think the term Wizard or Adept would be more applicable here in relation to anomalous phenomena.

I dont want to end up being the fool. One thing I have come understand is that there is an Occult component to all of this. That being said, many of the warnings and dangers mentioned by past Occultists definitely apply here.

Well I'm in no position to take part in any challenge or trial. I am engaged already in enough struggle in our normal world between school, work, and finance. Experiencing a real life Twilight Zone manages to drastically complicate one's life. I think I managed to only have a small glimpse of this Twilight Zone. A person confronted by this Other must have a massive amount of mental Discipline and Focus. It can quickly consume and corrupt a person mentally.

I'm no Shaman or Adept. Again I dont want to be a Fool either. I will continue my research and study of the Phenomena, but there is a certain amount of respect and honor that should be given. The same kind given to powerful natural forces like Hurricanes and Volcanoes. No one trivializes the power of Lightning or the force of an Earthquake. "Play with Fire and you get burnt" is a good phrase to keep in mind. The Phenomena is not to be taken for granted.

I will keep that in mind while working on the book. In fact I'll probably devote a whole chapter to it.

I dont have an expected date for when a book might be ready. I probably wont give a date. I want to make sure the book is honest and not filled with a mythology(Like the whole current UFO culture) or disinfomation.

Were dealing forces that can't be and won't be lumped into some neat little box of myths and urban legends. Forces apparently beyond our comprehension and control. Something that transcends us even more than a programmer transcends the code that he writes.


I thought about the idea of a Type 3 civilization, but honestly I think the old Kardashev scale may not even apply here. Dr. Michio Kaku proposed a Type IV Civilization in his Parallel Worlds book that may fit though. Personally I think we are dealing with something more Archetypal, Cosmic and Primordial than any civilization.

I agree with above. But...
Sometimes They Come Back.

Humans are about to transcend into a higher frequency and conciousness as the fifth age ends and the sixth age begins. These alien beings are here on our earthly plane to take us through this transition, among other things [environmental issues] - interdimensional or intergalactic, where ever they're from.

They've been visiting since the beginning of time, so why aren't we listening now??

reply to post by pretty_vacant


Based on reported behavior and my own personal experiences with anomalous phenomena there seems to be no indication of any real concern for our species' safety or well being.

Were talking about a phenomena that traumatises people to the point of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, abducts people physically and/or psychically, mutilates animals, possibly mutilates people or at least physically scars and tortures people, appears to be practicing some kind of psychological warfare or manipulation, has been involved in the creation of channeling cults that spread further disinformation, and engages in memetic engineering.

I personally suspect the Phenomena could care less about us having some kind of transcendence. I suspect it probably looks down upon us with contempt, loathing and at best cold apathy. Kind of the same way we look at rats and mice.




[edit on 4/5/08 by MikeboydUS]

In this day and age, to base our systematic analysis of ANY phenomenon occurring... to base it purely on FAITH.. is a ridiculous waste of time and energy.

someone a few millenia from now will be laughing spasticly at our minuscule efforts to describe what we've attempted to perceive regarding this and ANY phenomoena... based on our faith.

we are all basing our analysis on FAITH, and FAITH will get us nowhere.

Faith in the current state of "publicly" believed scientific practice and beliefs is as imprisoning... as our own narrowly perceptive five senses being cannon for proof of all that exists.

-

[edit on 4-5-2008 by prevenge]

[edit on 4-5-2008 by prevenge]

But according to Dr. Vallee, the phenomenon also has its "good sides" too. Apparently, "it" healed a person. Another event took place in Libya (I think) where a French legionaire saw a "saucer" and mentioned how good he felt during the encounter, the beatiful color of the disc, and so on. Vallee mentions it in his book "Dimenions" that the soldier "hasn't been sick" since the encounter (although it isn't mentioned whether it is due to good personal care or due to the "object").

I agree that there are a lot of "bad encounters" too, but it doesn't project only "bad" or "good" things, more like both of them. This isn't so say that there are two sides or two forces, or that what seems "good" to us isn't necessarily "their meaning".

reply to post by Karras


I think Vallee is more than an excellent "ufologist," however we can't discount the possibility of cultural contamination. Vallee might be drawing upon "other" personal beliefs to link the concepts of "right and wrong" to these superior beings who, IMO, wouldn't have such hangups (but perhaps be bound in some other means).

reply to post by Karras


At times, especially in regards to Channeling Cults, there is reputed stories of healing and prophecy.

This is not the first time this has happened. Its part of every paradigm shift on the planet. The reports of Miracles play a big role in starting these shifts.

These shifts are massive in that they lead to widespread fear, uncertainty, and doubt. Often this culminates in a massive wave of violence, social upheaval and radicalism. A New Order appears and the Old Order is swept away.

I try to look at all of the things reported. The various reports of Miracles, especially prophecies or messages which often end up being false. The reports of healing, which I also take into account the massive upheaval, violence, and suffering that occurs in relation to these new paradigms.

I can't call the Phenomena bad or evil. I'm not even sure if those terms apply, but I do feel there is contempt, loathing and apathy in regards to humans. Apathy and disgust do not equal bad. Especially when you look at our species as a whole. Humans do things that no other species on earth does. There is a level of sadism and masochism simply unseen among any other lifeform on earth. If we, humanity, encountered another species that acted like us, we would probably ignore whatever good it did and focus only on the serial killers, sadists, terror, torture, negligence and illogical behavior. We would probably try to exterminate it.

This Phenomena isn't trying to exterminate us. I'm not sure if that means it does not have the prejudices we have or its simply not human and we can't fathom how it "thinks". It displays what appears to be sadistic behavior itself, especially in abduction reports. Is it really sadistic or is this just how it interacts with humans? None of it we really know. What the reports do confirm is that it has no problems terrorizing, inflicting pain and suffering on humans. We don't know if it enjoys it or even cares, but the Phenomena does it. At the very least it appears to understand the psychological affects of torture and terror on humans.

We also know from reports that the Phenomena have no regard for truth or honesty. It delivers or "channels" messages of false prophecies, contradictory information, and at times just pure fantasy. What this tells me, is that the Phenomena has a clear and complex understanding of human Psychology, especially memetics and the importance of dramatic myth. From both the physical and infomation aspects I would say it has a level understanding about human psychology that intelligence or internal security agencies on earth can only dream of.

I'm still not sure that this means that the Phenomena is "evil". It definitely doesn't appear to have our best interests at heart. We dont treat animals in labs, zoos and farms with their best interest at heart either.

One thing that I keep thinking about is if the Phenomena considers us to be Real in the sense we think of animals and other lifeforms as being real creatures. I personally think It might view us as being Virtual, meaning we are on a level of inferiority that I have a hard time even comprehending. In our world we view Virtual entities as being below even viruses and bacteria. We interact with them with no morals or ethics. We have only apathy and sometimes outright cruelty. To us it doesn't really matter, since anything thats Virtual isn't actually real.

If they exist, like I suspect, outside of our reality and our reality is nothing more than a shadow of something greater. That would help explain a whole lot of things. Our perspective and human concepts of good and evil, simply would not apply.

I think Vallee is more than an excellent "ufologist," however we can't discount the possibility of cultural contamination. Vallee might be drawing upon "other" personal beliefs to link the concepts of "right and wrong" to these superior beings who, IMO, wouldn't have such hangups (but perhaps be bound in some other means).

Well, it's not what is good or bad, only that the phenomena has what to us is "good" (well, I do assume that any human consider it to be a good thing to be healed of something that even modern sciense can't treat). But I do not say that the phenomena sees it that way. Only that it isn't "just" malevolent.

I can't call the Phenomena bad or evil. I'm not even sure if those terms apply, but I do feel there is contempt, loathing and apathy in regards to humans.

This is an interesting aspect - and going back to your speculation about reality (you mentioned that they are god-like, but probably not the ones who created reality?), which is interesting in a way - aren't Christian angels supposed to hold some kind of loathing to humans - a lower creatures than they are? It's not that I want to find a link to it and Christianity - but I have heard them being both "immune" to humans praying in God's name - but also that they are affected by it (i.e., disappears etc).

Also, have anyone found any connection to old shamanic "magic" and the phenomena? Apparently, there is an island on the Western Coast of the U.S./Canada, where both "good" and "bad" shamans cast spells and stuff on each other, which has been documented in a book I'm supposed to recieve soon...

reply to post by Karras



I dont think there is a problem finding connections to religions, in fact you should be able to find parallels in every faith whether they be Pagan faeries, nymphs, gods, Judeo Christian Islamic Jinn, Angels, Demons, and Hindu Asuras and Deva.

I have heard of reports of where prayer or calling for divine intervention has worked and also not worked. Almost every religion on earth has exorcists, amulets, and rites to ward off evil spirits. I dont understand the process yet of how it may "banish" the phenomena, it may have to do with psychoactive foci in the sense maybe we are able to tap into either the power of our own or collective Psyche or something more universal with the aid of such sensory foci like words and symbols.

Personally I think there is something else at work in reality greater than even the Phenomena, a Univeral Order that is responsible for Synchronicity. I call it The Logos, which has clear parallels to the Greek philosophical concept of Logos. I base this idea mostly on the research I have done on synchronicity, coincidence, and a number of historical anomalies. I dont think the Phenomena causes or can control synchronicity. Its something far beyond their influence.

I definitely think there are connections to Shamanism. If you look further back in the thread I mention this. I think the concepts of altered states, mind altering substances, and shamanic rituals are all connected. If you asked a Shaman where the Phenomena came from or what it is, I'm pretty sure from his point of view he would say The Spiritworld.

I have heard of reports of where prayer or calling for divine intervention has worked and also not worked. Almost every religion on earth has exorcists, amulets, and rites to ward off evil spirits. I dont understand the process yet of how it may "banish" the phenomena, it may have to do with psychoactive foci in the sense maybe we are able to tap into either the power of our own or collective Psyche or something more universal with the aid of such sensory foci like words and symbols.

Indeed. Another thought I had is - who have we been praying to all these years? Are some people - or even entire religions - focusing their prayers to the phenomenon or to the "Logos" (or, "the Creator")? Could it be that they can feed on our prayers?

I definitely think there are connections to Shamanism. If you look further back in the thread I mention this. I think the concepts of altered states, mind altering substances, and shamanic rituals are all connected. If you asked a Shaman where the Phenomena came from or what it is, I'm pretty sure from his point of view he would say The Spiritworld.

Yes, but apparently the shamans do have some kind of power to influence people in this world. That is - magic, "black" or "white", supposedly works for real...

reply to post by Karras


I think it could be both, prayers could be directed beyond and I often wonder if they could be projected inward. Really when it comes down to it, prayer and "magic" arn't very different.

According to many modern adepts and esoteric orders, magic is cast by Will, similar to the use of Faith in prayer. Both invoke powers, forces, or spirits to perform a function. Both have foci, that help the mind achieve an altered state while performing the invocation. This can be music, sounds, smells, incense, candles, sights, lights, colors, and even feelings. Foci encompass all the senses to put one's mind "elsewhere".

When it really boils down to the bottom of things, what we may be looking at is the same process by different names. A process that may affect the Pineal gland and produce reactions at the quantum level in the mind.

I have some questions to readers, in regards to form constants, lucid dreams, and hypnogogic phenomena, which I have had a large increase in experiencing recently. I am worried some of this high strangeness is also beginning to spill over into "RealLife".

Has anyone ever experienced or heard of a book causing events of high strangeness, the kind of books with things like seals and sigils in them? I think I can pinpoint most of the weirdness back to that and bizarre hypnogogic visions involving writing on my wall.

I had at least three other hypnogogic events that I can remember, one involving a voice outside my room that "heard" my thoughts and responded in a disturbing manner.

The second involved what sounded like a Short figure within the room and next to my bed with a disturbing laugh. I say short because of the direction of the sound and I did not open my eyes to see it.

The last was the night before last, where I did open my eyes and had a view partially obscured with my comforter. I did not want to see anymore than I did, but it reminded me of an Angel, but the exterior surface of It was like that of Opal, which apparently is my birthstone. I just read that as I was typing about the birthstone. The being was pleading with me to hear them out, and I was very hostile. I felt really stupid for acting like that after becoming fully conscious.

I dont know what to make of them. They are hypnogogic, which puts them in the realm of potential hallucinations.

One other thing is a weird set of synchronicity I've experienced dealing with a recent obsession of mine, Platonic Solids.

For those not aware, Platonic Solids are geometric forms that the philospher Plato connected to the Five Classical Elements. They look just like polyhedrons used as dice in table top role playing games. en.wikipedia.org...

Even more bizarre is that the universe my be shaped like one.
physicsworld.com...

My fascination with them has lead me to study a "symbol" known as Metatron's Cube, en.wikipedia.org..., which contains the Five Elemental Solids. Bizarrely the holy glyph appears to be a Two dimensional representation of a hyperdimensional object like a Tesseract or Hypercube. This has lead me to look at Polychorons, en.wikipedia.org... which are Four Dimensional Polyhedrons.

In the 1800s a Swiss mathematician named Ludwig Schlafi discovered the Four dimensional counterparts of the Elemental Solids, even more bizarre he found a Sixth solid, that has no lower dimensional counterpart.

Then I found this weird thing that astronomer Johannes Kepler designed, the Mysterium Cosmopgraphicum, en.wikipedia.org... . He designed it to represent the planets, but for some reason I think there may be more to than that, especially if the Solids are changed to Polychoronic(Hyperdimensional) ones.

I'm not sure if any of this is related or connected, I thought some of it may be related to Mandalas, which are used as Foci to achieve altered states in Dharmic faiths.

I'm not sure what to think or do, but some of the wierdness may be spilling over into the waking world. I'd rather it not. Any thoughts or advice?

Addition for researchers using this thread for info on the subject "UFOs from Within":

ETs: The gentle Invasion

Has anyone ever experienced or heard of a book causing events of high strangeness, the kind of books with things like seals and sigils in them? I think I can pinpoint most of the weirdness back to that and bizarre hypnogogic visions involving writing on my wall.

What kind of book do you mean? If anything, it is most likely unknown to most people, and never published.

I dont know what to make of them. They are hypnogogic, which puts them in the realm of potential hallucinations.

John Keel reportedly had the same experiences of both "encounters" and synchronicity. But that's the thing with the phenomenon, one can not reckon it as either fantasy or reality. Of what I gathered, Patrik Harpur suggests one to accept this "daimonic reality".

I'm not sure what to think or do, but some of the wierdness may be spilling over into the waking world. I'd rather it not. Any thoughts or advice?

Maybe one advice could be to take a break from this research? I don't really know, since I've never had the rather intense experiences you've had...

reply to post by Karras


I mean a book with occultic seals and sigils. People often use seals and sigils as foci in occult ritual, which is what I was getting at. I wondered if anyone had heard of any anomalous phenomena associated with books like that.

I agree with Keel and Harpur, which means I have my doubts that are pro and con.

I thought about taking a break. I have been looking into anomalous phenomena, the occult, and Forteana for around ten years now.

I have heard real life horror stories of people involved in parapsychological research in the military, where their ability to distinguish reality and fantasy had completely blurred after working with anomalous phenomena over the years. Anomalous phenomena seems to have a psychologically corrupting influence. Some people seem to try to escape it through addictions and deviant behavior. After lengthy exposure to it, it seems to induce some kind of psychosis.

I really think maybe our minds are not made to handle the kind of stresses, existential crises, and paradigm shifts that occur without us developing some kind of psychosis.

For that potential reason alone, I may end up backing way off from the subject.



[edit on 18/6/08 by MikeboydUS]

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
They Come From Within continued...

Quantum computers have the potential to be faster than any computer ever built, even theoretical computers such as the DNA computer and Optical Computers. It would be the first Hypercomputer. The main problem mentioned by IBM in building one is Decoherence. Decoherence is what happens when quantum systems interact with their environment and become entangled with it inducing wave function collapse. This disturbs the entire calculation process. This Decoherence is also used to argue against Penrose's Quantum Mind theory. If the human mind is a Quantum Computer as Penrose suggests then it should be subject to Decoherence.

Fantastic thinking and writing, MikeboydUS. You might look at recent research that would seem to rule out quantum decoherence. This would rule out the Copenhagen interpretation but strengthen the Many Worlds interpretation.

The research was published only a week or so ago. It will be some time before all Wikipedia entries and information found elsewhere that is contingent on quantum decoherence is updated.

From the horse's mouth: arxiv.org...

[edit on 15-7-2008 by applebiter]

reply to post by applebiter


Thanks for the link.

Ive downloaded the document and will be analyzing it here soon.

As soon as I'm done I should post my thoughts on it.

I'll leave you with this quote from John Keel.

"... particles of energy left over from that explosion first took charge of this mudball and they've been in charge ever since. H.P. Lovecraft called them the Elders. They have been leading us around by our collective noses for aeons. But now, for some reason that is not yet clear, a merging is taking place. The Elders are slowly revealing themselves to us. What was once forbidden knowledge is now becoming known to millions. Even our scientists, those poor backward slobs... are recognizing the presence of these forces. The Industrial Age is coming to a close and science is rediscovering magick. Our civilization, which took centuries to build, is now coming apart...

But is it the End Time?

Or is there a new beginning somewhere in the near future?"

John Keel, "New Age of the Gods," from Disneyland of the Gods

It's been awhile so I thought I'd check in on you and see how you're doing. Are you off this subject matter still? If so, no need to respond. But if you are still on the subject may I ask you if you have identified "the elders" mentioned above? I'm asking 'cause the "the council of elders" was mentioned during my ET experiences as well as my spiritual experiences and there is also a bit about the 24 Elders in the Bible. Sort of an across the board group who from what was explained to me had authority over mankind on earth. Any info would be greatly appreciated,

STM