zeitgeist debunked and we still dont care

Originally posted by wheresthetruth
Anyone who just takes it all as absolute fact is missing the point. The point, that has been posted here over and over, that you should wake up, look around you and pay attention to what you are being exposed to.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make in my earlier post.

Pay attention. Do your research. Learn about things; people may find that things they have believed for years are incorrect.

When a person is educated and aware, he/she is less likely to be controlled.

I have a few questions. If the Wise Men were from the east and were following a star in the east, how’d they end up in Bethlehem which would be west? What is the average temperature in Israel during the end of December? Do they graze sheep that time of year?

As far as part 1 of the movie, it makes a strong argument for a one world religion. If all religions are alike and man is god, then it seems that one religion is all that is needed.

Part 2 makes a strong argument for a one world government. If the world is already being controlled by a few select men, why not just unite?

Part 3 makes a strong argument for a one world currency. Since the few men in part 2 happen to be the bankers and richest in the world, it makes sense that we would eventually end up with one currency.

During the reign of the Roman Church, paganism became so incorporated into Christianity that it is difficult to tell the difference between the two. Protestantism isn’t much better. The only real difference is they refuse to recognize the Pope as head of the church. But that appears to be changing with the ecumenical movement.

This movie uses fact, half truths, and legend to prepare the masses for a New World Order. It was interesting, but any good documentary would give sources for their information. I find it difficult to believe something simply because it’s in a movie. Give me facts! Zeitgeist plays on people’s fears while masquerading as a truthful documentary. While I feel that people have the right to believe whatever they want, I have a problem with the lack of documentation.

To those who disavow the debunkers because they are Christian, I have to ask who else do you think is going to debunk an attack on Christianity? Christians have their view and the rest have their view. A good video with sources can be found here

Thanks darkelf hard hitting documetery has deffinetly given me some food for thought.

The jesuets sound like a nice bunch of people i think i will have to watch it again as theres so much info to take in.Lots of quotes from some pretty influential people makes zeitgeist's hypnotic style seem so unnecesary apart from to get the attention of a younger audience.

Originally posted by Raud
Anyone more than me who got toatally hooked on the Lincoln/JFK-connection? That was pretty massive...

Look for thysleves!

kingdavid8.com...

[edit on 10-7-2007 by Raud]

the JFK/Lincoln connection is pretty interesting in my opinion.

Originally posted by Amenti
continuing from.. "ALMOST 500 YEARS LATER." This illustrates that the Vatican has very little to do with true Christianity except for the obvious problem that they themselves always claim that they ARE Christianity.
Ill put it this way:

I know, the catholic church very well may be terribly evil, It stands to reason that that is where evil would want to set up shop. but lets please stop using its pagan based rituals to prove anything about Christianities founder. Yes, the "church" does seem to be used as a control mechanism…TO CONTROL YOUR PERCEPTION OF CHRISTIANITY. It seems so obvious. Jesus was actually one of the most anti-religious people that ever walked the earth He had compassion for every low down person he came into contact with, except for the "clergy" of his day. They were the only people he ever spoke a harsh word to..maby a few money changers too. The guy in the new testament would be freaking furious with an organization that claims the kind of things the Vatican claims.


Now, on to one of my favorite subjects, the Zodiac, or the Mazzaroth. This movie’s half truths and outright lies about the zodiac are sickening. The unfortunate thing is that you have to know a good deal about science, history, mythology, astronomy, and physics in order to start to even understand what is at play with this system. It is not as simple as many are led to think And because of a lack of diligent study and an overabundance of half assed research, people swallow what they are told without questioning or learning anything further.
I warn you, if you REALLY want to know what the zodiac is, if you want to know why the illuminated groups venerate the “as above so below” maxim, it wont be easy, and you will have to go to “school”, the long and the short of it is that the system, and its use and history, have been perverted to show and do things are believed only because of what you are NOT told. it is a matter of withholding information as much or more that mis-information. The truth is stranger than the half truth.
I will put some links here for those who wish to look into this, I encourage everyone who cares to do so:
www.ldolphin.org...
server.firefighters.org...
video.google.com...
video.google.com...

You can argue with me about a lot of things here (and Im sure you will) but that this movie has a great deal of factual errors is not up for debate, as I said most of these claims were debunked 100 years ago. I am very worried about the future of this truth movement of which I am proudly a part of, I know that a division on dogmatic grounds is coming, and that all the great work we have done exposing and fighting this New World Order will be undone, by design. Be careful the ones proving the most stuff are often the ones to watch out for, they do this because they know that certain truths are coming out they know that they cant stop the awakening that’s coming. so they try to temper it by supplying us with the best real information through their agents and having them only lie about key elements, It is very insidious and very evil. We must be alert and challenge EVERYTHING even if you wanted to hear everything this movie had to say it does not make it true.

One more thing, As this movie suggest, I too believe we are at the end of an age. An astronomical age and a spiritual age, the precession of the equinoxes is a real thing,
They have tried to tell you that this impending change is a non-christian Idea, This IS the Idea! It is clearly described in the bible we will indeed change, as will this world, and why it must do so. but they are keeping you from seeing the origin of the warning! The bible has been 100% accurate in its writing history in advance, this is how has validated itself. Challenge this claim It is our duty.

My Point Exactly!!!!

I'm more of a lurker here, but I thought I'd put in my two cents. I'm not going to try to prove religion, nor am I trying to disprove it. My interest is in the thought of the Zeitgeist. The point of the movie, and the irony encased within it.

Here, we have this movie, that supposedly reveals all of these truths. Tomes of information that seemingly prove that all of the things we know and have come to accept in life are at best, illusions. It underscores the idea of "think for yourselves." While this is a great and fantastic concept, the way they went about it is totally wrong:

The movie is full of citations that mean nothing.

I said I'm not here to prove the validity of the research or whatever, and I'm not. I'm just pointing out that using these conspiracy writers and sources that are flaky at best is exactly like using the bible to prove the bible. You're using conspiracy propaganda to prove conspiracies. And in my opinion, that's all the movie is - propaganda. Again, we come to: think for yourself.

The whole idea of a movie shoving this stuff down your throat and then saying "think for yourself" is a bit odd to me. The majority of the people that see this movie claim to be "enlightened" and "think for themselves" by regurgitating things that were said in the movie. Is that really thinking for yourself? You're just absorbing the movie that tells you to do something, then claim you're doing it by citing the movie. Redundancy at its finest.

I, personally, don't believe 7/8 of the things said in the movie, but that's my personal opinion. It also makes me wonder about the self-proclaimed athiests and "truthers" or whatever you want to call them that get so upset when you try to debunk their things debunking your things. Isn't that what they set out to do? Aren't they attempting to disprove something themselves because their faith is apparently shaky? If not, then why do they scream that's what the "believers" are attempting to do when they do the same exact thing to them?

I say do the research for yourself before you believe anything that is said by anyone. Believing a movie like that just because it says to is kind of a silly way to run your life, wouldn't you think? Then again, so would be believing religious manuscripts because they say to. But then again, which one is more reputable?

reply to post by Amenti


When you learn how to spell maybe correctly, "maby" I'll listen to you.
(Red lines mean it's spelled wrong)

i just watched the movie for the first time yesterday. i have seen it posted for discussion on this board, yet had kept myself from looking for the simple fact that i don't buy into ANY religion. i believe in the spiritual which can be found underneath the surface of ALL religions (but the surface is there to keep those who aren't interested in knowing the truth from finding it).

however, a 15 yr old girl w/ whom i have much respect when it comes to her great insight on things (sometimes these kids can be far more profound than "learned" adults claim to be) asked me if i would watch it for her and tell her what i thought. so i did.

first, i think it is important to know that i had the bible literally beat into me from the time i was in my mothers womb lol. long story short, i became agnostic because i couldn't PROVE beyond any subjective stand point (and hardly even that at the time) that there was only one God and that that God was solely in accordance w/ what we can read in the Bible.

thus, i started a journey. a personal journey that began w/ a prayer to the Truth and for the Truth and ended up w/ me realizing that none of us stand w/out excuse to the true nature of God. He is found in the heavens, He is found on and in the earth, He is found in every single day, He is found in every book, every note of music, everything good and everything bad.. and most importantly He is found in everyone of us.

IF you feel the need to debunk or prove this movie OR ANY religion for that matter, your search for God has yet to even begin and I wish you all the luck should you choose to stop arguing and being dogmatic and start searching!

about this movie? my personal opinion is that in some ways it confirmed some things that i felt had been pointed out to me by (what some of you call) God, some of it was interesting and new to me and therefore i definately will be looking into it further, and yes, there was some information in there that wasn't true (just as there is in most anything we read and see). and just bc there was some misinformation in it doesn't mean it is worthy of being discounted altogether.


one more point: those who are dogmatic christians and want to point out the fact that jesus probably wasn't born on dec. 25th as a reason that the rest of the ppl should completely ignore this film should really stop celebrating his birth on that day or for consistency's sake, your words and beliefs should be discounted as well. not trying to be rude, but if needing 100% accuracy is a sign of something being worthy of attention, then, well, you get my point right? also, no more santa clause or easter bunny bc you are lying to your children and any lies out of your mouth could discredit your "word" w/ the rest of us. (btw.... i am not "christian", but because i believe in Truth, i don't feed my kids the lies of santa, bunnies, etc).

Who are you Amenti, u working for the government or something. You obviously aren't a true american. You obviously don't know too much about our government and our people. If you are a true american, you'd realize the potential danger our government opposes on the people. Not just the government, but as well as these bankers who believes they have the government in their control. It's funny, all these ppl thinkin they have control over these things anyways. The government, the bankers, secret societies and what not, each thinkin they have real power. Everyone knows there is a God and a Devil. Whether we know what they really are or not, they exist. Something has created this universe, a being did, a very powerful being of course. But, I'm sure God didn't know all this would happen once he gave us free will. The fall of the twin towers were controlled, otherwise it wouldn't fall straight down like they did. That's common sense. You can do experiments on it to test it yourself and see for yourself that it is true. Each state has a manditory law on how buildings are built. New York was designed specifically for taking on earthquakes. New York at a time was also being attacked through the harbors there, seen it on the history channel, forget what year, but early mid 20th century. So they made the buildings they made to withstand fire elements. They have made these buildings to withstand alot. Those planes really didn't do all that, common logic. I don't care if I get flagged or not, already am, if not, I'll be damned. I once had a dream, and emailed cnn about this dream. 3 months later, what happened, the 9-11 occured. The whole Jesus thing, dunno too much about, can find out tho if ya want. But, America won't be in power too long. For one, the children we have nowadays are way more rebellious than ever before. Also, a country that once was, well how it was spelled was Psyria. Let's just say I was shown something, and it freaked me out, still does, but not as much, mostly because I can't wait till this war occurs. I'm not sure what's gonna happen first. War, then natural disasters all over the world, or vice versa. But I think it's gonna be war first. After the initial war, people will have chips in them. There will also be the rebels. All this will be going on for 7 years I believe. I might be able to see my grand kids, then again I might not, but I will die around that time frame. I'm not scared either. I am hoping something else will occur, which I do not want to say at the moment. There will be one dominant ruler, but not by America. The government will sure try, but won't happen, if so, just for a short little while, till another country steps in, then another, then that one.
The vatican however is the biggest known organization to man, they have been in power for a very long time. The pope was the one who made men kings really. They specifically chose which man will be king for their own biddings. You would have to really dig to find those answers, but you can. There is no such thing as a war on terror, never has, never will. Common sense there. That's what's wrong with this world today, no common sense, no wisdom in the majority of people. If I was God, and I made humans, and kept telling them to chill or else, over and over again, what would you do though. He was basically babysitting us, while we rebelled against our creator. After eons and eons of disobeying him, he kind of left us to our own demise. Accept the very few who he keeps in touch with. Ya just have to listen, that's all. Soon, we all will find out the truth. And the ones who think money is power will regret it, and the ones who falls for their traps, they will. I only go by the bible as nothing but a guideline, nothing else. Even the truths have been takin away from the bible, or exaggerated to make some stories seem more hero like. I don't have the bible memorized, but sure have read it quite alot.

reply to post by Amenti


Just where are these ancient texts you speak of? Have you seen them personally?

Anyone can go around saying they have secret super special ancient texts.

reply to post by Amenti


Just to add, I don't think zeitgeist was trying to say God doesn't exist, or to not believe in God, just that you have to be wary of organized religion.

You can believe in God without ever stepping on a church. I wouldn't confuse debunking organized religion as not believing in God.

reply to post by TetraCleric


If the sources were destroyed in the early days of christianity, and if the texts aren't reliable (in other words, if they aren't reliable enough to show the differences they have with the Christian Scriptures), then how are they reliable enough to be used as sources that show similarity with christian scriptures? The issue with this site is that this is a site dedicated to using historical criticism to either show support for or lack of support for the movie zietgiest. it also appears the portion most being discussed is the portion dealing with christianity. if we cannot dispassionately discuss the issue, all we do is shout back and forth at each other. historical criticism requires the backing of verifiable sources in order to show the likelihood that a statement is true. we are speaking of history, not science people. if no sources are available, hypothesis' are worthless ( christian, non christian, this movie, whatever). i am not stating christianity is right. i am stating that this movie does not back up the statements it makes, concerning other messiahs (a hebrew concept, unrelated to others in pagan mythology) and concerning parallels in other religions. If no sources can be shown that show these parallels actually exist, we are just taking the film maker's word on it. since he wasn't around at the time the other religions were being written about, he is also not a valid source.

reply to post by Amenti

thanks for this thread it helped

I don't get it, I just don't get it. We are being divided and conquered, we are being manipulated into attacking each other so we don;t confront those who need our attention. Every single thread on ATS these days is about "I'm right and you're wrong", and "If you don't believe what I believe your an idiot or a disinfo agent" or some other derogatory remark.

To the original OP, so you don't like the movie and others do. So what? So they didn't cite references that you agreed with. So what? So people have watched it and agreed with it's conclusions. So what? Deal with it and move on.

And this crap about citing references, how far back do you need to go for a reference to be a good reference? What about these original texts you say you should use, what references do they have to back up their claims in their texts? At what point does something not need a reference to be considered truth or fact? When it conforms to your beliefs perhaps?

What references are there in the bible to back up it's claims? None, and yet people hold it up as a book of truth, even though it contradicts itself and can be interpreted many different ways. Fine, if that's what floats their boat, cool, whatever you want to believe is fine. As long as I'm allowed to believe what I want to believe, even if it differs from you. It's called life, and you're a part of it, so stop wasting time trying to make other people believe what you do, or attacking them and the things they believe in. It's boring, repetative, and been discussed to death already, and nothing's changed, so let's move on.

[edit on 8-7-2008 by Alethia]

Everyone knows religion is based on theories, NOT scientific FACT. In this year 2008 the world is very fact driven. Everything must be proven to be accepted widely, EXCEPT religion, ghosts, and aliens. Three things whitch could all be considered to be tied together. If you want to believe religion then good for you. Be a good person. However, there are other things to be listened to in this movie. There is a huge difference between parts 1, and the other parts 2 and 3. Part one has NOTHING to do with the rest of this movie.
I have a friend in the military that says the special ops military personel are REQUIRED to get chipped. I work in a hospital, and I was talking to a few doctors about these chips from Digital Angel. They were saying that this company is trying to get all newborn babies to have the chip installed. I have been hearing about these chips for almost 15 years now and it is finally happening. I don't know about everyone else but I don't want all my money controlled by a chip that is implanted in my arm. And I sure as hell don't want to be tracked and let the government know my whereabouts at all times. If this ever does happen, there is going to be a huge problem. People like myself would never get these installed. I would assume there would be millions more that feel the same way. I assume it would be enough that if the world were forced to get these that there would be a war taking place. I assume that since I am still under 30 years old that I will probably be long dead before this ever happens. Thank god for that! If there is a god.

although i know not everything in zeitgeist is true and its purpose is the important thing but i aboslutley love the opening line from jordan maxwell, i think that says it all right there.

Originally posted by Dr Love
My question is why do all these movies like Loose Change and Zeitgeist have to be "thoroughly" debunked? If it's all BS, what the hell do you people care anyways?

Excellent question! Amazingly, the narrator of "Zeitgeist" gave you the answer at the end of the movie: Educate yourself with the facts. That includes documentaries that purport to give you the truth, with little or no documented sources. Read the motto at the top of this website: "deny ignorance."

If the facts in these documentaries are really true, they should be verifiable. If you can't verify the truth of them, though, then, in the case if Zeitgeist, you just wasted 2 hours and 2 minutes of your life, and you may as well have spent that time watching a Spongebob marathon; at least you would have had gotten a laugh out of Spongebob.

Question everything...including the conspiracy theories.

reply to post by madmunchkin


I believe most if not all of the debunking of Zeitgeist has been the religious aspects of the film, Part 1.
So you would disregard an entire documentary because of a part that is factually inaccurate?