Bush Will Commute Libby's Sentence

Originally posted by FlyersFan
If anyone should go to jail for 'outting' Plame, it's Plame and her husband.

But he wasn't set to go to jail for outing Plame. He was going to go to jail because when they asked him about it, HE LIED. He obstructed justice and committed perjury. It doesn't matter if he outed Plame or not. He lied to a Grand Jury about it.

I don't know what's so hard to understand about that.

This isn't about understanding.

It is about "supporting your political party" good, bad, right, wrong, or indifferent. It is about partisanship, and nothing else.

Not ethics, not morality, not the rule of law, common decency, or anything else.

Pure partisanship. The bane that is destroying the integrity of our government, and by extension, our beautiful country.

While I am no fan of Bush, I personally feel that aside from the 2 1/2 years in Prison the penalty is fitting of the crime. The prison term seemed a bit excessive to me, but that's just my personal opinion. Does anyone have info regarding precedent for a similar case? I'll see if I can find something online.

For a different view, is there anywhere to see what other pardons Bush has made during his Presidency? Are they only available after he has left office?

I know Clinton's are available here:

www.usdoj.gov...

Which brings my next thought.. Is the following quote from Hillary a fair statement to make after the legacy of Pardons Bill left office with?

"This commutation sends the clear signal that in this administration, cronyism and ideology trump competence and justice." - Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y.

..Disregard the Hillary quote question, it does fit the context and apparently about 400 pardons is well within the average of previous Presidents.


[edit on 2-7-2007 by stealthyone]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by FlyersFan
If anyone should go to jail for 'outting' Plame, it's Plame and her husband.

But he wasn't set to go to jail for outing Plame. He was going to go to jail because when they asked him about it, HE LIED. He obstructed justice and committed perjury. It doesn't matter if he outed Plame or not. He lied to a Grand Jury about it.

I don't know what's so hard to understand about that.

AMEN TO THAT!

When the shoe was on the other foot and Clinton and his team were in power the Republicans and conservatives made an enormous stink about how our leaders and their people should be held to a higher standard.

Now... its just excessive and unfair to hold a public servant accountable for lying under oath.

The president's full statement can be found here:

www.foxnews.com...

That is one awesome statement.

To me it says one thing: President Bush (or VP Cheney) promised Scooter Libby that he would not do time in jail for taking the fall for his bosses.

At least it seems 43 keeps his promises.

[edit on 2-7-2007 by Icarus Rising]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
You are right. It was Plame and her hubby that outted her. They outted her all over DC. It was the worst kept 'secret' in DC. If anyone should go to jail for 'outting' Plame, it's Plame and her husband.

You are absolutely right. The ditzy blonde used to brag about it at cocktail parties all over D.C. That is, when she wasn't pimping gov't gigs for her loser husband.

And $250,000 is only part of Libby's cost. His legal fees are over $1million.

Those who are so upset over this commutation, just remember - it's just chump change as commutations go. Just like the $250K is chump change to so many of you.

Want some real pardons? Look at Clinton. He routinely pardoned drug dealers. Oh yeah, and he pardoned a guy named Marc Rich. In contrast, Bush, and his father before him, are/were notoriously stingy when it comes to pardons.

I just don't get it.

If you believe Clinton's pardons were wrong...

If you believe Clinton's lies under oath were wrong...

If you believe in the Rule of Law...

Then why would you excuse Libby's lies to a grand jury? Or support Bush's clemency?

We really are beyond the point of no return, aren't we?

So much for this 'grand experiement'...

It's a matter of putting things into perspective. What Libby did was small potatoes compared to what Clinton did.

People are reacting like this was the pardon of a hardened criminal.

Want to see a travesty of justice? Sandy Burglar getting a $50K fine and community service.:shk:

[edit on 2-7-2007 by jsobecky]

Originally posted by loam
Then why would you excuse Libby's lies to a grand jury? Or support Bush's clemency?

Bush didn't grant Libby clemency, although the president has the power to grant clemency.

He commuted Libby's jail sentence.

I respect the jury's verdict. But I have concluded that the prison sentence given to Mr. Libby is excessive. Therefore, I am commuting the portion of Mr. Libby's sentence that required him to spend thirty months in prison.

My decision to commute his prison sentence leaves in place a harsh punishment for Mr. Libby. The reputation he gained through his years of public service and professional work in the legal community is forever damaged. His wife and young children have also suffered immensely. He will remain on probation. The significant fines imposed by the judge will remain in effect. The consequences of his felony conviction on his former life as a lawyer, public servant, and private citizen will be long-lasting.

The Constitution gives the President the power of clemency to be used when he deems it to be warranted. It is my judgment that a commutation of the prison term in Mr. Libby's case is an appropriate exercise of this power.

www.foxnews.com...

[edit on 2007/7/2 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Ok...lemme get this straight. The guy convicted by the jury and sentenced by the judge was an innocent victim. And the spy that was outed by the administration, and her husband, who weren't supporting the fake Niger yellowcake scam as a pretext for going to war...are the bad guys.

So the guys that faked the call to war, 'liberated' Iraq, and bailed out the good-guy criminal...are all heroes now?

We Canadians have a federal party that wants to secede from the country and we refer to them as 'Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition'...and I thought that was nuts!

But wait! There's more, Johnny! Look at who got Presidential Medals of Freedom...hahahanutsnutsnuts...Rumsfeld (The Secretary of Defense who couldn't defend us correctly), Bremer (Director of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance in post war Iraq who helped "deconstruct" the country), and Tenet (CIA Director and giver of bad advice).

I don't think we can blame porphyria this time for such madness as all this.

Now, I do place some blame with my northern neighbor for giving us "axis of evil" Presidential speech writer, Canadian David Frum. Hell, he scared the bejeezus out of us. That was not a neighborly thing to do. That was one scary outsourcing!

The president doesn't surprise me with any thing he does. I personally can't help but think. What is the next president is going to do?

wonder if he has anymore get out of jail free cards??

the guy has a bunch of congressmen, a bunch of demonstrators, a bunch of letters flowing into the white house asking him to use a few to help a couple of border patrolmen who were just doing their jobs also!!!

why are they still sitting in jail...but, libby will never be....

I guess it has to do with the importance of the jobs they were doing maybe....
ya know, conning us into thinking Iraq deserved to be decimated was very, very important.....
but well, keeping our borders secure is not only unimportant, it should be discouraged!!

either that or the guy the border patrolmen shot was Bush's personal drug runner..

whatever, but it's amazing to me that this government can keep piling the crap onto the mountain when the mountain is this tall already...

I wonder what the next shovelfull is gonna be.

Originally posted by desert


But wait! There's more, Johnny! Look at who got Presidential Medals of Freedom...

Yeah, and look at who got a Nobel Peace Prize - Yasser Arafat!

Originally posted by desertNow, I do place some blame with my northern neighbor for giving us "axis of evil" Presidential speech writer, Canadian David Frum. Hell, he scared the bejeezus out of us. That was not a neighborly thing to do. That was one scary outsourcing!

I'm really sorry about that! We sent him south to do comedy, like Mike Myers, Michael J. Fox, Dan Aykroyd, John Candy, Jim Carey...all those guys. Truth is, as soon as he hit the border, Frum got all jazzed-up on Hostess 'Real Fruit' Fruit Pies and has been nothing but a nuisance ever since. Just give him some time for the sugar rush to fade-out and he'll give you no more trouble. Honest...and thanks for your patience. But, you know...lock him up if you figure you need to, eh?

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
The guy convicted by the jury and sentenced by the judge was an innocent victim.

Yes.

the spy that was outed by the administration, and her husband,... .are the bad guys.

She wasn't an operative at the time and had not been for a number of years - so she wasn't a spy.

She wasn't outted by the administration - she was outted by HERSELF and HUBBY.

the guys ...are all heroes now?

Wild imagination you have there. Where did I post that? No where. :shk:

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Ok...lemme get this straight.

You got it completely wrong while you were trying to get it straight. AND you added a few things that weren't even said. Try again.

[edit on 7/3/2007 by FlyersFan]

Sorry flyerfan those are all administration spin and not a speck of truth about them.

Besides that he, a public servant, lied to a grand jury. You and I would have our asses thrown in jail period.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
It is about partisanship, and nothing else.

Nope. It's about justice.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
He obstructed justice and committed perjury.

I dunno about that. From what I have read that isn't entirely accurate. He may have been convicted of that .. but it's not clear that happened. IMHO.

Originally posted by loam
If you believe Clinton's lies under oath were wrong...

Yes I do.

Then why would you excuse Libby's lies to a grand jury?

I don't believe he did.

Or support Bush's clemency?

Bush was correcting an injustice.

Originally posted by grover
Sorry flyerfan those are all administration spin and not a speck of truth about them.

Hey grover.
I have seen no credible evidence that says what I posted was wrong.

a public servant,

Ahhhhhhhhh ... the good old days when politicians were public servants and not politicians. Those days are looooooong gone. Public servants are few and far between now ... aren't they? Sad.

As far as someone telling lies to a grand jury and getting away with it - I guess Bill Clinton is the poster boy for that. But Libby doesn't fit into this category since, as far as I can tell, he didn't lie.

(oh .. that'll get me some flaming responses! )

A shame this seems to have hit rock bottom by becoming a Clinton V Bush comparison. Two crime families and seemingly interconnected so it makes little difference who did what when in power as it's not the issue here.

Perjury IS a serious crime and nearly always carries a severe penalty, which any one of us would receive were we to commit this crime in court.
So, partisan politics aside, Libby lied repeatedly and was found guilty of doing so and should receive the punishment accordingly. Suspending the rule of law by commuting Libby's sentence so openly should speak volumes to the people about how highly (sarcasm) the government regards the laws it applies to the rest of us to follow.