Is atheism a religion?

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
Why does it need to be classified? I'm willing to tell anyone about it. LMAO

Seriously though, it's not a religion. It's just atheism. File it under "A" and be done with it.

"Swallowing gob now"...

'Looking at MMF, and nodding now'.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
I think it is. It is more than just a religion, it's a proselytizing religion actively seeking converts. The evidence for this is clear just on this board. Hard core atheists are not happy with believing in no god, they almost always have to try to get others to share their beliefs, spending much time and effort to convert the heathen masses just as many religions have done in the past.

Pure agnosticism, where you really don't know if there's a god or not, or if a known Earth religion, if any, is correct would be a true non-religion in my opinion.

I have to agree on this point. Atheists apply a certain zeal to their arguments which seeks converts to their point of view. What I object to is the fact that they want theists to provide solid proof of God but are happy to adopt a lack of proof as a basis for a firmly grounded conviction. Isn't that ironic?

Not all Atheists try to 'convert' to their way of thinking, and I really don't think that's
really a good term.


Atheists provide scientific explainable and testable explanations to things that many religions
attribute to divinity or think must be true because it's in some dusty old book that's been
translated, edited, censored and added to so much over the years that it is'nt what it was originally.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction

Ah, but that is not the case. Morality stems from our biology. Religion has built on it, yes. But for people like myself, I prefer the term "ethics." It means "morality" but takes god out of it.

The term “morality” can be used either

descriptively to refer to a code of conduct put forward by a society or,
some other group, such as a religion, or
accepted by an individual for her own behavior or
normatively to refer to a code of conduct that, given specified conditions, would be put forward by all rational persons.

Sorry but if you look at morality in an anthropologival context, my definition still stands. I am talking about a rational belief that chooses a 'middle path' in favour of extremes of behaviour. Dawkins may state that selfish behaviour allows a form of morality that guarantees survival. I think that God-given morality allows for philanthropic behaviour in humans. We are only talking about atheism and morality in humans , not in animals.

Religion takes credit for morality, simply because that is the one thing it is clinging to that it can say gives it a purpose. I am amazed how many people seem to think you have to be religious to have any kind of ethical behavior.

Religion gives purpose and hope. Why don't you like that? I did not say you have to be religious to show moral behaviour but that where behaviour is rational/reasonable and not extremist, it seems to come from a message from a Divine source that has been 'lost' in time. for example Zoroastrianism, where the message has been diluted and changed but still the remnants allow for a behaviour that could be called moral.

If religion is the cause of morality, how do you explain religious people such as David Koresh? Or Jim Jones of the People's Temple? They were very religious. Were they moral? What about Torquemada -- he was a Christian. Were his morals proper? Or was he, like the Nazis, "just following orders" as he oversaw and ordered the torture and brutal deaths of people who didn't believe his version of god?

This is not an argument about moral relativity and you well know this. You have chosen every negative religious figure deliberately. Was Mother Theresa immoral? Was the last Pope an immoral man? Was Saladin, the Muslim leader, immoral? Was Jesus or Moses immoral?

Is fatwa a moral act? Was declaring a death sentence on Salman Rushdie (who, incidentally, I think is one of the most brilliant and thought provoking authors of our time) for writing a book moral? Was blowing up the WTC moral? That was done because of religion.

Regarding the fatwa, it was an act of idiocy by extremists. the WTC was not done because of religion, it was an act of terrorism which defies religious or moral description. Was the WTC allowed by the Government? Was that an act of morality.? I am sure that a proportion of the ATS audience think that the Government used the event as a catalyst to gfurther Imperialist aims.

The main difference between atheists and most religious people of whatever sect is that while we may not agree with your belief in god, we are not prepared to kill you for the difference of opinion. Most religious sects on the planet past and present, do not and did not have those particular scruples.

I strongly disagree here. The Communists were atheists in the USSR and China. 20 million dead in the USSR post-Revolution for holding a difference of opinion with Stalin and 10-15 million dead in China. Peaceful atheists?

Organized religion and dogma is responsible for more death in this world than any other single cause, except perhaps the natural end to life. Millions upon millions upon millions of people have been killed for cleaving to a belief that was not the same as their neighbor's.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. You missed my thread on religions causing war where this issue was discussed ad infinitum.

Sigh. I'm not even going into some of the same old same old again.

Communism wasn't the cause of the deaths in Russia and China. Fascism was. And the Italians and Spanish during WW II were fascists, and were religious. It's like saying Hitler had black hair and he killed people, so all people with black hair were murderers.

Atheists don't kill people for not agreeing with them.

You really need to find something better to do with your time. How would you like it if I started a thread called "Christianity is superstition" and came up with a bunch of specious arguments to support that fact and then refused to accept that to you it isn't superstition?

Atheism is LACK OF RELIGION.

Period.

No matter how much dancing around semantics you do, it won't make it religion, it can't make it religion, because IT IS NOT RELIGION.

Atheists aren't trying to convert anyone. We have our own opinions on religion, think it's delusional. If you came across some guy on the street who insisted that the sky was pink, you'd call him delusional and might try to talk him out of it if he otherwise seemed rational except for that one weird point.

And then people start threads like this one, which are extremely insulting to people like me, and then accuse us of trying to convert people? Are theists so unimaginative they just can't get the fact that we do not see a need to make up an invisible friend and pray to him?

We don't try to convert, we just try to get you theists to understand something you seemingly are completely incapable of understanding -- we don't believe in a god or gods. Atheism is not a religion.

To quote your own bible, there are none so blind as those who will not see.

At the first link I provided on the first page is a list of things that religions espouse that atheists do not. Since you are still clinging to this insulting idea of yours, let me spell it out her, just in case you didn't bother reading it:

Religions have the following features: belief in god(s), prayer, churches, scripture, priests/religious leaders, belief in supernatural (including angels and demons), miracles, afterlife, holy wars, heaven, hell, lifestyle restrictions (marriage, dress and diet to name a few), belief without evidence (faith as a virtue), belief despite conflicting evidence, supernatural origin of universe (and people), murderous fundamentalist extremists, annoying street/doorstep proselytizers, the soul, regular ceremonies and acts of worship, sin, blasphemy, "we are god's chosen people."

Atheism is LACK of all this crap.

I've been trying to be nice about this, I really have, but gloves off now.

I believe that people who cling to the belief atheism is a religion, and religion itself, are delusional.

According to wiki:

Although non-specific concepts of madness have been around for several thousand years, the psychiatrist and philosopher Karl Jaspers was the first to define the three main criteria for a belief to be considered delusional in his book General Psychopathology. These criteria are:

* certainty (held with absolute conviction)
* incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary)
* impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue)

You can't even get it through your head that atheism is the lack of religion, the absolute opposite of religion. That qualifies as a delusion.

I don't know if you are trying to drive me from the faith forum by making such blatantly ridiculous and, yes, I'm going to say it, stupid claims, or if you really believe it, but either way, it's untrue and downright wrong to say atheism is a religion.

What amuses me most in all of this is that every time an atheist sticks to their guns and out-argues a theist in this forum, someone goes crying to the mods that we are bullying them, or that we are trying to convert them or in some other way attempt to censor us. All we do is explain our version of reality with the same vehemence that theists tell us there is a god.

I don't go to the mods and say that I'm being bullied, even when it is obvious someone is trying to bully me. Why? Because I am secure in my understanding of the universe as it is -- there is no such thing as a soul, or god, or heaven, or hell or the devil.

People in this forum talk about "fighting" us, and "defending" Christianity. If these people were so secure in their belief they wouldn't need to "defend" it. There's a lot of hypocrisy here: when we discuss our world-view we are attacking. When you discuss your world-view you are discussing. When we don't agree with you, we try to explain it in a way we think you will understand. When you don't agree with us, you try to tell us we are a religion despite all reason and definition, and then someone goes and complains that we are bullies and are attacking them.

Get over it already. We don't believe in the supernatural. I don't believe in aliens, UFOs, ghosts, demons, angels, the soul, the devil or god. I don't believe in leprechauns or fairies either.

I'm an atheist. I am strong enough to accept the world for what it is, and clear-minded enough to know that when I die, I die, and that's all she wrote.

I most certainly do not belong to a religious sect. I don't go to church. I have no holy books. I have my brain and my reason and they are more than enough to live in the world without adding sky fairies on top of it.

And now I'm going back to my sick bed. For you have given me a headache in your sheer inability and unwillingness to accept that some people don't need to believe in childish things like gods.

The human race is growing up. Are you growing with it, or are you going to cling to the primitive need for a belief in something above and beyond what actually exists?

Originally posted by djohnsto77
I think it is. It is more than just a religion, it's a proselytizing religion actively seeking converts.

I think some atheists do "proselytize". But I'm not convinced it's to seek converts so much as to ward off the proselytizing of some religious people. Most atheists are content to just be the way they are, but do resist religious proselytizing of any kind with strong opinions.

But all atheists don't act the same way. Not all of them argue their point of view.

Originally posted by TheDuckster
#4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

This is a valid point. However, Because I do my yoga religiously, does not make yoga a religion in the context of the OP. And if we are honest with ourselves, the OP was not asking if Atheism is a "principle pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion", they were asking if it's another religion, like Islam or Methodist. Right?

I've been told I'd be a good litigator...

Originally posted by TheDuckster
'What the hell can we classify Atheism"?

Technically, it is a belief, but NOT a religion. Belief =/= Religion.
Just like a belief about trolls. What is your belief about trolls?
What is your belief about The Flying Spaghetti Monster?
What do you believe about angels? UFOs?

If you believe that The Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist, is that a religion?

Originally posted by Heronumber0
What I object to is the fact that they want theists to provide solid proof of God

That's because theists are claiming something. You've heard that the burden of proof lies with the claimant, haven't you? If you make a claim that something exists, people have every right to ask for proof.

Isn't that ironic?

Do you guys know what this word means?

An atheist is someone without a belief in god. It is as simple as that. Nothing more, nothing less. It is not a belief system that tells me how to behave or what to eat. It is a simple statement of my lack of belief in God.
Source

Originally posted by Heronumber0
Religion gives purpose and hope.

To some. I don't have any problem with people having religion.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by djohnsto77
I think it is. It is more than just a religion, it's a proselytizing religion actively seeking converts.

I think some atheists do "proselytize". But I'm not convinced it's to seek converts so much as to ward off the proselytizing of some religious people. Most atheists are content to just be the way they are, but do resist religious proselytizing of any kind with strong opinions.

Exactly! Give BH the prize!

Here in the US, where there is a clear Constitutional separation of church and state, Christians are trying to take over the government. They are trying to get intelligent design taught in schools as science. They are trying to put the ten commandments in public buildings and make a constitutional amendment to prevent gay people from marrying because it's against god's law.

People who don't believe in the Christian god are under attack here, not the Christians. The Christians are the ones doing the attacking, the ones committing hate crimes such as murdering doctors who perform abortion.

Is it any wonder that we stand our ground so strongly? If the religious right gets its way in government at some point I can realistically see being told to convert or be imprisoned (or die).

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
Sigh. I'm not even going into some of the same old same old again.

Communism wasn't the cause of the deaths in Russia and China. Fascism was. And the Italians and Spanish during WW II were fascists, and were religious. It's like saying Hitler had black hair and he killed people, so all people with black hair were murderers.

You need to read up on your history I think. Lenin and Stalin had no need of a God and were prepared to follow a quasi Hegelian role in negating their humanity for the sake of a revolutionary Hegelian/Communist principle.

Atheists don't kill people for not agreeing with them.

Yes, they just actively suppress practice of religion don't they?

No matter how much dancing around semantics you do, it won't make it religion, it can't make it religion, because IT IS NOT RELIGION.

I suppose I was being a bit naughty but I am trying to clarify a thought here not start a fight, as I said. Why do you get so upset? You are acting like a religious extremist in your responses.

And then people start threads like this one, which are extremely insulting to people like me, and then accuse us of trying to convert people? Are theists so unimaginative they just can't get the fact that we do not see a need to make up an invisible friend and pray to him?

No insult intended. It was a need to clarify something. The links you provided were helpful but your zeal and commitment to a certain point of view is almost religious.

Religions have the following features: belief in god(s), prayer, churches, scripture, priests/religious leaders, belief in supernatural (including angels and demons), miracles, afterlife, holy wars, heaven, hell, lifestyle restrictions (marriage, dress and diet to name a few), belief without evidence (faith as a virtue), belief despite conflicting evidence, supernatural origin of universe (and people), murderous fundamentalist extremists, annoying street/doorstep proselytizers, the soul, regular ceremonies and acts of worship, sin, blasphemy, "we are god's chosen people."

Atheism is LACK of all this crap.

Now who is being insulting MM? You assume without evidence. Your previous 'evidence' was very weak and one-sided about the negative influences of 'anomalies' like David Koresh.

According to wiki:

Although non-specific concepts of madness have been around for several thousand years, the psychiatrist and philosopher Karl Jaspers was the first to define the three main criteria for a belief to be considered delusional in his book General Psychopathology. These criteria are:

* certainty (held with absolute conviction)
* incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary)
* impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue)

You can't even get it through your head that atheism is the lack of religion, the absolute opposite of religion. That qualifies as a delusion.

Couldn't we say exactly the same for evolutionism and string theory? Are they not in the same category?

I don't know if you are trying to drive me from the faith forum by making such blatantly ridiculous and, yes, I'm going to say it, stupid claims, or if you really believe it, but either way, it's untrue and downright wrong to say atheism is a religion.

I would never drive you away from this forum. We need people like you here. If I am stupid, fine. I never claim to be Einstein and there is just so much that I have to learn. I will bow to your superior intelligence.

I am not into bullying. I hate bullying. However, I hope that you can discuss and debate without resorting to excessive emotion. Humour me if you think I am wrong.

And now I'm going back to my sick bed. For you have given me a headache in your sheer inability and unwillingness to accept that some people don't need to believe in childish things like gods.

I hope and pray that you will recover from you malady to debate with me again some time. Let's not lower ourselves to insults please.

Originally posted by Heronumber0
Yes, they just actively suppress practice of religion don't they?

They do? Can you give an example of where atheists suppress the practice of religion that's NOT connected to a division between church and state?

I am trying to clarify a thought here not start a fight, as I said.

Riiiiight! We all believe that.

You are acting like a religious extremist in your responses.

And you are acting like a passive aggressive person in yours.

your zeal and commitment to a certain point of view is almost religious.

You are clearly trying to piss people off. It may work on some, but I can clearly see through it.

I hope and pray that you will recover from you malady to debate with me again some time. Let's not lower ourselves to insults please.

But we all know how atheists LOVE to be prayed for, don't we? And don't you mean "direct, upfront insults"? Because you are being just as insulting as anyone here, just in a covert, passive/aggressive, typically "religious" way.

And yes, that was meant as an insult, but only to show you how you are being while you try to... what was it you said? Oh, yeah... "clarify a thought".

Funny!

They do? Can you give an example of where atheists suppress the practice of religion that's NOT connected to a division between church and state?

Not the point. Religion was not allowed in the old Soviet Union as an 'opium of the masses'. You are going off the point BH.

Riiiiight!

We all believe that.

This happens every time. Atheists want a fight. I will reason and debate until the cows come home but I don't really want to swap cheap insults in these posts.

And you are acting like a passive aggressive person in yours.

I am trying to behave like a moral human being. Whether you believe it or not, does not affect me does it?

You are clearly trying to piss people off.

It may work on some, but I can clearly see through it.

Wrong again BH. The whole point of my OP was due to the way in which atheists argue their points. They behave like religious zealots in their attempts to argue their point and accept no counter argument. I am sure this has happened a million times in this forum. I just want to swap opinions and modify my own. however if you guys behave like Osama Bin Laden when someone comes up with a counter argument, you must accept that your opinions/beliefs will not go unchallenged.

But we all know how atheists LOVE to be prayed for, don't we?

And don't you mean "direct, upfront insults"? Because you are being just as insulting as anyone here, just in a covert, passive/aggressive, typically "religious" way.

I hate covert insults. I just told you above that you behave like a religious extremist to your face. I don't try to hide. However, I want to back off from trading insults because it is much more fun to respectfully trade opinions. It is too easy to be sarcastic. And I will say a prayer for you BH.

And yes, that was meant as an insult, but only to show you how you are being while you try to... what was it you said? Oh, yeah... "clarify a thought".

Funny!

I'm glad that you have had a laugh. Do you care to answer any arguments I have made? (Oh and that is an enquiry, not an insult).

Originally posted by Heronumber0
You are going off the point BH.

No I'm not. You said atheists actively suppress practice of religion and I'm asking for an example...

I don't really want to swap cheap insults in these posts.

Should I believe what you say or what you actually do?

I hate covert insults.
...
And I will say a prayer for you BH.

That's cool. You do know I'm not an atheist, don't you?

Do you care to answer any arguments I have made?

Not any further than I already have. I don't care what you think about atheism. Think it's a religion if you want.

See, I'm of the opinion that I get to say what I am. If I say I'm pro-choice and someone calls me a "liberal", that's fine. They're wrong, but they have every right to be wrong.

Then when I say I support the 2nd Amendment, they can call me a "Republican" if they want. Again, they're wrong. They can say, "But if you're "pro-gun" that means you're a Republican!"... They're still wrong.

I get to say what I am. You can speculate what I am all you want, but only I get to say what I am and if it constitutes a "belief system" or religion or whatever.

[edit on 30-6-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Heronumber0
I just told you above that you behave like a religious extremist to your face.

By the way, do you mind showing me where I have behaved like a "religious extremist"? I'm a little concerned if I'm coming across that way to someone...

Thanks.

I figured it out! While I was at the ER getting my son's ear infection taken care of, it hit me. Why Christians need to make atheism into another religion.

It's because what we say scares them. It makes too much sense. It shakes their belief in their god so they feel the need to force us into a mold and call our lack of belief a religion so that they can dismiss what we're saying as irrelevant just as they do all non-Christian religions.

I'm onto you now.

Originally posted by Heronumber0

This happens every time. Atheists want a fight. I will reason and debate until the cows come home but I don't really want to swap cheap insults in these posts.

No, it's you Christians that want a fight. You started one by starting this thread. Other people have posted those exact words in this forum "we have to fight the atheists."

Wrong again BH. The whole point of my OP was due to the way in which atheists argue their points. They behave like religious zealots in their attempts to argue their point and accept no counter argument. I am sure this has happened a million times in this forum. I just want to swap opinions and modify my own. however if you guys behave like Osama Bin Laden when someone comes up with a counter argument, you must accept that your opinions/beliefs will not go unchallenged.

How have I behaved like Osama? I haven't blown up any buildings nor have I put out a price on your head for the insults you have dealt in this thread.

BH is right, you are very passive aggressive, and now that you're being called on it, you're getting huffy. Tough. You opened this can of worms, now eat it.

We aren't acting like extremists any more than you are. We have a set of opinions that are valid and we aren't about to bow down to Christian bullying to change our minds. You are deluded, and I'm not going to cut you any breaks just because you have a religion. Christians think that the rules they try to apply to others don't apply to them. Well, that's hypocrisy. If you want to say something insulting and demeaning in a thread and don't like where the thread goes, that's YOUR problem. You are the one calling names here. I didn't call you Torquemada, nor did I call YOU Osama, though YOU are the one acting like a religious extremist.

And I think it's hilarious that BH, who is not an atheist, is more than capable of accepting the fact that we are not a religion to the point that she is arguing our points, and that you are attacking her. (If you're a guy, BH, forgive me LOL).

I better leave this thread before I go and say something that will get me banned.

Atheism is not a religion. In my previous post I said why I believe you are trying to shoehorn a square peg into that round hole. Continuing to do so makes you look more foolish than the original post in this thread did, and that's saying something.

Buh bye. I have better things to do than argue with a delusionist.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
And I think it's hilarious that BH, who is not an atheist, is more than capable of accepting the fact that we are not a religion

That's simply because I have never, ever heard an atheist proclaim that atheism is a religion. The only ones who try to do that are non-atheists. Every atheist I've ever listened to or read says that it's NOT a religion, so I accept it, of course. They're telling me about themselves. Who am I to tell them who they are?

If you tell me that you don't believe in aliens, I don't insist that you're a ufologist... :w:

(If you're a guy, BH, forgive me LOL).

Nope, I'm a woman.

Buh bye. I have better things to do than argue

I don't. I need a life!

Originally posted by MajorMalfunctionAtheism is the opposite of religion, it is LACK of religion, which you well know.

Err there are religions that don't believe in god, like Buddhism. Atheism simply means the lack of a belief in god.

But responding to the OP now honestly atheism is not a religion at all. All you need to do to be an atheist is just not believe in god like I said before. You don't necessarily, for instance, have to believe in evolution to be an atheist, among other things, so that makes your logic flawed.

I understand, Kacen. I'm sick so I'm not crystal clear today.

Buddhism is a religion because they have a religious or spiritual leader (Buddha), temples, and rituals. They are considered an atheistic religion by some because they don't have a god figure, but I think atheistic religion is a contradiction in terms. They're still a religion. Just to clear that up before a theist takes that ball and runs with it.

No I'm not. You said atheists actively suppress practice of religion and I'm asking for an example...

Pol Pot and the active suppression of religion in Cambodia.

Not any further than I already have. I don't care what you think about atheism. Think it's a religion if you want.

If they argue and lower themselves to personal insults instead of debate, they are behaving like religious zealots defending a point of view. I am willing to change my views based upon debate. Atheists are absolutely fixed and firm in their unbelief. Which one has a closed mind?

No, it's you Christians that want a fight. You started one by starting this thread. Other people have posted those exact words in this forum "we have to fight the atheists."

I am not a Christian. I am examining all faiths with a view to choosing the best from each.

How have I behaved like Osama? I haven't blown up any buildings nor have I put out a price on your head for the insults you have dealt in this thread.

But you seem to show all the criteria for suffering from psychopathology, which you quoted MM.

BH is right, you are very passive aggressive, and now that you're being called on it, you're getting huffy. Tough. You opened this can of worms, now eat it.

What you see is what you get. I will debate but not insult. I am too much of a gentleman, so I will ignore your more emotionally overwrought comments and put them down to sickness.

We aren't acting like extremists any more than you are. We have a set of opinions that are valid and we aren't about to bow down to Christian bullying to change our minds. You are deluded, and I'm not going to cut you any breaks just because you have a religion. Christians think that the rules they try to apply to others don't apply to them. Well, that's hypocrisy. If you want to say something insulting and demeaning in a thread and don't like where the thread goes, that's YOUR problem. You are the one calling names here. I didn't call you Torquemada, nor did I call YOU Osama, though YOU are the one acting like a religious extremist.

You are showing an inflexibility of views that Osama would be proud of; I am, at least, open minded about my views.

I better leave this thread before I go and say something that will get me banned.

Say what you want. I am always cool.

Atheism is not a religion. In my previous post I said why I believe you are trying to shoehorn a square peg into that round hole. Continuing to do so makes you look more foolish than the original post in this thread did, and that's saying something.

Buh bye. I have better things to do than argue with a delusionist.

MM, the original intention was to foster debate around the concept of atheism and the way that atheists defend their unbelief. You have shown me something of what I originally expected. I can now change my views confidently and declare that atheism is not a religion but a form of psychopathology. Your posts have now confirmed a new view that I hold.

May I quote you this again:

"philosopher Karl Jaspers was the first to define the three main criteria for a belief to be considered delusional in his book General Psychopathology. These criteria are:

* certainty (held with absolute conviction)
* incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary)
* impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue) "

Originally posted by Heronumber0
Pol Pot and the active suppression of religion in Cambodia.

And because of these, you have determined that it's safe and correct to make the statement "atheists actively suppress practice of religion"? Interesting logic, for sure... By the same logic, I could say, "Mothers kill their children."

I will debate but not insult. I am too much of a gentleman...

Excuse me? I don't know what thread you're reading, but you have been quite insulting here. At least MM isn't claiming that he's "too much of a gentleman" to insult someone.

You've likened atheists to Osama, Torquemada, you've said, "atheism is not a religion but a form of psychopathology", all the while making a shabby, transparent claim that you just want to "foster debate". BS, dude. Sorry. Anyone reading this can see past your words, like I said before.

You don't want a debate. You came in here with a clear purpose to make atheists out to be some sort of psychopaths. Hmmm... Where have I heard this kind of insult before?