Teacher Dismissed for Containing a Violent Pupil

My friend contacted me to say that he was dismissed from his teaching post due to containing the violence of an out-of-control pupil.

The boy was in a mixed class of Math students (14 year olds) and showed violent tendencies towards other male students, punching them, hitting them and then ran around the classroom. My friend put his arms around the student's body, effectively closing the pupils arms by his side, and lifted him up. He then carried the student in a vertical position and placed him outside the door.

The student complained to the Headteacher and my friend was given an 'interview' with the Senior Leadership(?) Team and had his contract terminated with overt mention of the above incident.

My point: where on Earth do we go from here? If we cannot stop violent students from annoying and disrupting the education of others we may as well stop teaching. The power lies with the students and they know it!

Another question comes to mind. Why don't we dispense with teachers altogether and let computers do all the work at educating children?

If we look at the situation dispassionately, some teachers make very little difference to the education of the children in their charge - computerised learning may be the answer.

Have you not heard of the horry stories that teachers do. They are humans to, and just as spiteful.

Man these sort of threads are always one way. I remember going to school and seeing non stop bullying by teachers of this 1 lad, he never wanted to come to school. You would think it had been arranged that way or something. There are definately funny things going on in schools.

You posted this on ATS so I assume you have some conspiracy aspect to this story you haven't shared with us yet.?

I can go into a lot of details of what happened to this one boy, who had his life destroyed by school. The head of his year was even organising for him to be beaten up. So teachers don't do anything do they, heh.

This boys life was destroyed by these events and it followed him all his life, all because of nutcase teachers and there fantasies they make up in there brain.

From this story and what i saw from the thing above, you would think these things are organised to destroy kids lifes. I wonder how both the boys lifes i mention here are doing, i would guess they were wrecked, and not one of them were violent or disruptive as you put it.

So tell us all about how your story thread starter, tell us how these kids are so bad.

Too right kz. Educators are marginalised and their 'power' to discipline students is being slowly stripped from them. I am sure, and I have mentioned before, that schools in tough areas like the area I teach in, are not expected to pass the majority of schoolchildren. In fact only 50% of pupils nationally are expected to pass with any worthwhile grades - the rest are 'failures' of the system. In my school we have less than the 50% passing. Why is that kz?

Historically, the educational system was three-tiered. The upper tier was dominated by upper class individuals who paid hefty fees and who received not only the finest education that money could buy but a social, or 'old boy' network that would give them the top jobs and access to the top Colleges. The second tier involved middle class schools that would train middle managers to work for the 'old boys.'

The bottom level was occupied by working class students like myself. I remember a teacher clearly telling us that we needed literacy skills and numeracy skills for working in factories after we left school. That kind of determinism shocked me, even at the age of 11.

Anyway, back to the point, if we want children from Inner City schools, we need educators to be able to have limited contact with unruly pupils. I have to stop fights, which are not unfrequent events by throwing myself in the middle of 2 students about to have a fight. I have been punched on the arm but have heard of other teachers punched in the face etc...

If the law prevents us from stopping student-student violence what chance do we have of educating these pupils out of expected failure? Conspiracy. Hell yes! Against students and against teachers in working class areas.

Originally posted by andy1033
I can go into a lot of details of what happened to this one boy, who had his life destroyed by school. The head of his year was even organising for him to be beaten up. So teachers don't do anything do they, heh.

This boys life was destroyed by these events and it followed him all his life, all because of nutcase teachers and their fantasies they make up in their brain.

From this story and what i saw from the thing above, you would think these things are organised to destroy kids' lives. I wonder how both the boys lives i mention here are doing, i would guess they were wrecked, and not one of them were violent or disruptive as you put it.

So tell us all about how your story thread starter, tell us how these kids are so bad.

Andy, of course teachers are human and I know that some teachers are vindictive, small-minded bullies. But my experience is that most teachers are caring and fair. I feel bad about the boy's life that was ruined by a bullying teacher. These peopple should be forced out of the profession. We don't need them.

However, the boy that was annoying and disrupting the lesson did not have his life destroyed by a large teacher lifting him up and putting him outside the door. Come on. We must have balance here. The majority of students want to learn and if they had a chance, they support strict, but fair, teachers. They tell us that they want strict teachers in preference to those who allow anything to go on in their classes. Think back to your school days. Who were your favorite teachers?

Usually, it's not the teachers though. There have been many posts on ATS about teachers getting fired for really stupid reasons. It's the ADMINISTRATION. They are the ones who decide to fire these perfectly good teachers and they are the ones who call the police when a student is found guilty of having chewing gum (no exageration there, it actually happened). Then the cops charge the kid with something equally stupid.

It's all about controlling kids and the teachers and turning our schools into military-style institutions.

As for teaching our kids thru computer, I don't think that's a good thing. No human contact with the kids all day isn't good. Teachers can make learning fun and exciting. My husband taught for 20 years and still is in touch with a number of the kids he taught - they keep in touch with him because they feel he was a major positive influence on their lives.He cared about some of them when even their own parents didn't.
He has saved more than one kid from the dung heap of life and inspired them to make something of themselves. This is especially important in our society, when often both parents work and don't have the time/energy to spend with their kids. No computer can substitute for loving care and attention.

[edit on 29/6/07 by forestlady]

I think that students , in troubled areas especially , should be taught in a room by a computer program with large monitors. The rooms would be outfiited withj inobtrusive cameras with audio so that if a student caused any trouble at all, any interruption of others trying to learn, adults watching monitors , specially trained in non violent restraint techniques and with the personality to deal with situations calmly and with an eye to defusing potential problems, would see the event from a remote location nearby and dispatch the appropriate number of trained personnel to remove the offender(s) and not allow them to return to the class until the issue had been appropriately dealt with.

Justice delayed is justice denied. If a student knew that no nonsense and able adults were a few steps away and would quickly remove any student that caused a disturbance , trhey would think twice before launching an attck on another kid or making trouble for others. Fights would be stopped quickly and by those able to handle it; teachers are not trained fighters, or referee's and have no business getting in between kids that are about to fight.

Kids would soon learn that showing out would get them little attention other than that from the athorities and other students would have minimal loss of class time from events that distract. Stiff punishments, including suspensions, should be used to convince repeat offenders that they will not be tolerated anmd must change or leave.

Once the system is in place, I believe that a whole new perspective would be seen by the kids, and that outbursts that now cause great disruption and attention for the perpetrators would no longer achieve that same effect any longer, thus discouraging such behavior. This system could be used also in regular classes that have a teacher; the teacher carries a small alarm unit on his/her belt,etc. and pulls the pin when an incident is about to occur or is occuring. Within a minute, trained and capable adults with restraint devices and a no nonsense attitude descend on the class and immediately remove the offenders for counseling and determination of what happened and approproate punishments, all meted out and wrapped up within an hour. Video will show undeniable proof of what transpired, and swift consequences will promote a respect for the system and a decline in incidents .

Teachers should never have to lay hands on a kid ( only exception would be in self defense ) ; when students act in a way that demands such interventions, they should always be carried out by those equipped and trained to deal with these specific areas. That way, emotions that cause escalations do not present an issue as the interventionists are trained to react non-emotionally , and personal risk and harm to teachers and innocent students is eliminated for the most part . Just a thought.

Originally posted by forestlady

It's all about controlling kids and the teachers and turning our schools into military-style institutions.

My husband taught for 20 years and still is in touch with a number of the kids he taught - they keep in touch with him because they feel he was a major positive influence on their lives.He cared about some of them when even their own parents didn't.
He has saved more than one kid from the dung heap of life and inspired them to make something of themselves.
[edit on 29/6/07 by forestlady]

Thank you for that. I felt that the teaching profession was under attack for a while there. What inspires ME is the smile from former pupils and even current students who feel that the teacher-pupil relationship is positive and based upon mutual respect, honesty, understanding and...dare I say it - love. This is worth more than all the negatives.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
I think that students , in troubled areas especially , should be taught in a room by a computer program with large monitors. The rooms would be outfiited withj inobtrusive cameras with audio so that if a student caused any trouble at all, any interruption of others trying to learn, adults watching monitors , specially trained in non violent restraint techniques and with the personality to deal with situations calmly and with an eye to defusing potential problems, would see the event from a remote location nearby and dispatch the appropriate number of trained personnel to remove the offender(s) and not allow them to return to the class until the issue had been appropriately dealt with.

I have often thought about this solution and the way that you have explained it would make sense in very tough areas. The teachers could be in a separate part of the building and teach lessons via webcams. However, what about the practical subjects like Science and Woodwork? That would be a bit difficult to arrange, unless the teachers have the personal alarms that you suggested

Once the system is in place, I believe that a whole new perspective would be seen by the kids, and that outbursts that now cause great disruption and attention for the perpetrators would no longer achieve that same effect any longer, thus discouraging such behavior.

I would like to think that the interventions by trained professionals would actually reduce the risk of harm to disruptive students.

when students act in a way that demands such interventions, they should always be carried out by those equipped and trained to deal with these specific areas. That way, emotions that cause escalations do not present an issue as the interventionists are trained to react non-emotionally , and personal risk and harm to teachers and innocent students is eliminated for the most part . Just a thought.

I agree, that in high risk/high potential of violence schools, this may be the answer. The security guards would not be as emotionally involved as teachers. However, teachers, or anyone else, is not allowed to film children in case the tapes fall in the hands of pedophiles, or to allow charges of pedophilia to be made against teachers. Even sports days cannot be filmed. Good contribution eyewitness.

Thank you for the positive remark. Are you in the UK ? I have never heard of any problem here with videotaping classrooms. The tapes would be in a secured storage area and only available by court order or to identify illegal activity. Tapes could be erased daily if they did not record anything of interest.

Also, videotapes show what does NOT happen as well as what does. If a student makes an allegation against a teacher, or anyone else, a quick review of the tapes would settle the matter before rumors and scandals could result. More and more classrooms, and locker rooms ( although not shower areas yet ) are resorting to video to stop student on student harrassment, hazing, etc. The mere presence of a camera tends to moderate behavior , of course.

I am torn on the general issue as I hate the big brother aspect of video and survelliance , and I know the very real fears that it can get out of control , but in the case of schools, I tend to give it more leeway. Kids are in a closed environment , legally bound to attend , and at the mercy of whoever may choose to harm them or interrupt their education, UNLESS the school takes a hard line stand against bullies and punks who will not abide by the rules. Video insures an accurate record of whatever may occur, can exonerate the innocent , and inspire those who may want to disrupt a class to think about it twice before choosing a path that he knows will lead to his getting punished or removed from school.

Hopefully, at least. What a shame that all this even needs to be considered..in my day chewing gum or talking in class were major issues and not dealt with lightly; when the bar is lowered, there are always those who push it down as low as possible until it breaks the system, and that is what we are seeing now.

I'm in the uk, and i know back when the stories i wrote above, video cameras were coming in. They are good for entrapment etc.... (if you knew the case that i talked about above you would know the entrapment case i am talking about, but unfortunately for them, this boy was not interested in females)

Its the other technologies in the uk, that the kids in school should be wary of. Shame that the people who use the technology do not realise they are not gods, but limited brained individuals.

But heck schools and society just going to get worse for honest people while those who think that technology makes them a god, and they can do anything they want. These are the dangerous people who operate around the running of schools and society.

I just wonder how many kids have organised haressment by teachers, that is part of some plan organised in the staff room, and why these kids have to be put through these things.


[edit on 6/29/2007 by andy1033]

Hmm, Eyewitness, I'll have to think about your proposal. Off the top of my head, it sounds like jail to me. Perhaps in juvenile detention schools it would be a good thing? So many allegations of paedophilia and teacher abuse would be abolished that's for sure.

Good point..seems like a jail? Maybe in a way. But in this day and age do the students need protection to the degree that mandates an environment that may indeed appear to be closed and monitored?

That question can only be answered on a local basis. Some schools need it, some do not. Maybe if an atmosphere somewhat like a detention facility were used, it might end up that far fewer kids actually progress to that level at all. At the very least, it would allow for students interested in learning to have an opportunity to do so without major interruptions on a regular basis.

Since kids cannot be expected, or rather relied upon, to act in an adult and responsible manner consistently, they require more scrutiny than those who can be trusted to act civily in public without such oversight. If this scutiny rises to the level of closed rooms and monitored activities, then it should be considered. Video is absolute proof of actions and can determine what really happened. No other medium or tool could possibly be as effective in reducing incidents, recording evetns for later appraisal in case of an offense of law, and protect the kids againt teacher conduct that may be innapropriate. I see this as a win win situation with the appropriate safeguards in place and adhered to strictly.

Or, how about a bouncer in the school? Trouble arises, and the teacher can call for backup.

Originally posted by Heronumber0
My friend contacted me to say that he was dismissed from his teaching post due to containing the violence of an out-of-control pupil.

You may not want to get too specific here.
But was this in the US?
Was your friend in a union? Tenure?
Was he allowed a hearing, or just this "interview"?

Originally posted by andy1033


Its the other technologies in the uk, that the kids in school should be wary of. Shame that the people who use the technology do not realise they are not gods, but limited brained individuals.

andy, you seem to have a problem with teachers. No prob there but I might add that there are many more good teachers out there than bad. I have 3 kids, my oldest close to graduation, I've only encountered 3 bad teachers for ALL of my kids.

As to the cameras, it's a good thing. My youngest was strangled by an older kid a couple of weeks ago. MUCH bigger kid. We're talking girls here btw. The school tried to poo poo it away but the school social worker saw this as well and let us know how bad it was. We went, saw the tape and called the cops. It was obvious that the school wasn't going to do anything.

Don't mistake the teachers for the administration. BIG difference.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
Thank you for the positive remark. Are you in the UK ? I have never heard of any problem here with videotaping classrooms. The tapes would be in a secured storage area and only available by court order or to identify illegal activity. Tapes could be erased daily if they did not record anything of interest.

Yes we are in the UK. The Senior teachers are extremely touchy about cameras of any sort in classes due to possible allegations. Corridor cameras are accepted and erased after an allotted time. It is shameful that parents are now routinely banned from filming their children's Sports Days in case the tapes fall into the hands of paedophiles or in case paedophiles pretend to be parents of schoolchildren.

Andy I take your point entirely but these people are not gods are they but pathetic individuals who have to bully others for their self-aggrandisement. Most teachers are fair and kind individuals.

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
You may not want to get too specific here.

But was this in the US?

In the UK, in Inner City London.

Was your friend in a union? Tenure?
Was he allowed a hearing, or just this "interview"?

He was a substitute teacher with a long term contract. He was given 20 minutes with the Headteacher and a Deputy Headteacher and told that he would be given an excellent reference if he left quietly. He was more, or less, blackmailed into leaving and felt outraged. I must say that I agree with his right to be angry.