The Twin Towers: The Proofs Of Demolition

Originally posted by DisabledVet

Originally posted by Griff
Why so defensive? I only asked what type of engineering degree you possesed. Because you said any engineer (including myself). Does that not mean you are an engineer?

'
Well according to the logic on this board it means I could be an evil alien from another planet sent here, on the US secret governments request to help them in their evil plot to debunk the real truth that yes, the us government hatched a plan whereby secret people (The would be people with families and children)would be tasked with placing demolition charges on two of the most populated buildings in New York (populated with people whom have families and children..just like the secret forces) in a secret manner so that they would be blown up killing all those people with children too to help bring us into a war on terror.

Hmm... so not one person would feel guilty of being involved in such an act.. why have we never heard from one of those secret people involved?

The thought that there was intentional acts to help kill thousands of people is ridiculous. You all seem to forget it takes people just like you and me to carry out these plans....it is IMPOSSIBLE for a plan of this magnitude to occur without at least one person involved in the supposed sabotages coming forward.

Misdirected skepticism at its worst.

Why are you under the assumption that it takes people like me and you to carry out such horendous acts as we saw on 9/11. The simple answer to that is that we dont have an agenda. The evil elements within the Government have an agenda to fullfil, they will find people who support there agenda and simply hire them to go with such a plan, people in the FBI, CIA and other organizations, it could of well been they hired Mossad (Israeli Secret Services), that would explain the 5 dancing Israeli's which were celebrating the attacks on 9/11 which many people witnessed - Source

As for "so many people needing to know about the operation", that is simply not true, there is a "need to know" basis which is used by governments and other organizations (particularly those related to the military or espionage), describes the restriction of data which is considered very sensitive.

Under need-to-know restrictions, even if one has all the necessary official approvals (such as a security clearance) to access certain information, one would not be given access to such information unless one has a specific need to know; that is, access to the information must be necessary for the conduct of one's official duties. - Source

In all esence, there those who have blown the whistle on the Government, people who have worked for the Government including many FBI, CIA and DoD officials. Please refer to my 9/11 Whistleblowers thread.

Hmm... so not one person would feel guilty of being involved in such an act.. why have we never heard from one of those secret people involved?

Not necessarily, those people involved as stated above would have the same agenda as those people who organized the operation, thats simple, the agenda would be to create a false flag operation in order to get the american public in support of a War, this in turn is profit for the companies that Dick Cheney, Bush and other people who have the same agenda own. Also, the fact that many people, im sure, are afraid of speaking out in fear of losing there livelihood, there jobs and even there life. There is a term used by the Government called a "gag order". That is fact and cannot be denied. Please see my thread 9/11 Whistleblowers for clarification.

Now please lets stay on topic and rebute, if you can, the information provided in reference to the Twin Towers.

BeZerK




[edit on 29-6-2007 by BeZerk]

The people involved don't feel guilt for what they do. They attend the Creation of Care every year at the Bohemian Grove to take care of that...

These people only care about the final result, not what has to happen to get there. Collateral damage is considered in the much same detached way your grocery store takes into account losses from damage or theft.

Originally posted by earth2
Maybe just maybe that was were the elevator door was opened, then the mega blast of energy preceding the collaspse found that opening as an exit blowing out the tower windows.

That would explain a window here and a window there being blown out like a squib. That was were the elevator doors were open.

edit: the blast of energy had to be traveling down the elevator cavity ahead of the collapse and its going to seek the least resistance which would be an open elevator door.
[edit on 28-6-2007 by earth2]

Wouldn't it, in that logic, have gone down Technical Services/Express elevators? Hypothetically if it was falling slow enough to actually make the pancake theory plausible?

At the rate of it's fall and the fact dust is flying that wide apart, shows those squibs weren't just compressed air coming out. (Refer to external image)

And let's pretend they were, why would it be dust that is flying out of the elevator shafts?

[edit on 30-6-2007 by Vinci]

You people never seem to amaze me. We've had people who BUILD such buildings for a living talk about this. People from MIT and Georgia Tech. People from the Army Corp of Engineers. People from the demolition industry.

But none of them is good enough for you. You still insist on making a conspiracy of it. If it was a demolition, why the cell phone calls from the air? If it was a demolition, why did Osama take credit for it? If it was a demolition, how did word not leak out since secrets clearly cannot be kept in this country? If it was a demolition, why is it that not a single person saw them bring the thousands of pounds of explosives into this building?

EVERY single source mentioned above investigated this and came to the same conclusion. Oh, those puffs of smoke and Orange? Those are exploding beams and electrical/gas lines bursting from the oncoming weight.

When are you people going to STOP disrespecting the dead and hold those truly responsible accountable? The terrorists went to those pilot schools. If it wasn't them who flew those planes, why did they go to the schools and where are they? Stop trying to find fault in your own government and start trying to find the true heros; our police, our military, our fire departments. Heck even the mother and father who work every day to ensure a good life for their children. There is so much good in this world. THAT is what we need to protect for future generations.

Originally posted by Nunny
You people never seem to amaze me. We've had people who BUILD such ...........

........... father who work every day to ensure a good life for their children. There is so much good in this world. THAT is what we need to protect for future generations.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying but you bring up a subject I havent figured out yet.
Is it possible to make cell phone calls from a plane that high up?
Probably is but I have a hard time getting a signal in a grocery store for example.

[edit on 1-7-2007 by earth2]

Originally posted by Nunny
You people never seem to amaze me. We've had people who BUILD such buildings for a living talk about this. People from MIT and Georgia Tech. People from the Army Corp of Engineers. People from the demolition industry.

But none of them is good enough for you. You still insist on making a conspiracy of it. If it was a demolition, why the cell phone calls from the air? If it was a demolition, why did Osama take credit for it? If it was a demolition, how did word not leak out since secrets clearly cannot be kept in this country? If it was a demolition, why is it that not a single person saw them bring the thousands of pounds of explosives into this building?

EVERY single source mentioned above investigated this and came to the same conclusion. Oh, those puffs of smoke and Orange? Those are exploding beams and electrical/gas lines bursting from the oncoming weight.

When are you people going to STOP disrespecting the dead and hold those truly responsible accountable? The terrorists went to those pilot schools. If it wasn't them who flew those planes, why did they go to the schools and where are they? Stop trying to find fault in your own government and start trying to find the true heros; our police, our military, our fire departments. Heck even the mother and father who work every day to ensure a good life for their children. There is so much good in this world. THAT is what we need to protect for future generations.

Actually it is people like you who seem to amaze me and most definitely others.

Is it so un-patriotic to question the Government? I mean serious they would never lie to us right

I doubt you read through all 14 pages of information that not only i posted but other members on here. If you had taken the time you would of learnt a few things such as "need to know basis" and so on.

We are not disrespecting those people who lost there lives on 9/11 by questioning the Government. The investigation of the 9/11 "attacks" were only given $3 Million in funding, thats amazing especially when you think about how much Clintons sex scandal investigation costed... any guesses... well a staggering $30 Million +, do you see anything wrong here?

I think we owe it to the many lives lost on that fateful day in re-opening a new investigation and setting aside sufficient amounts of funding to do so.

Also in case your wondering, most of the victims families are in full support of a new investigation and are also questioning the Government. Do these families amaze you as well?

BeZerK



[edit on 1-7-2007 by BeZerk]

Here we go again, another new poster saying the same crap, just in time to help the other de-bunkers who are being buried in facts and common sense. Do you people think we're that stupid? You'll so transparent...

You can all keep coming, send 10, send 20, you ain't gonna faze us...We're the new Angry Brigade...You know what I'm talking about...

Here is a Very curious 9/11 vid showing explosions. When you watch the vid, put it to full screen. Now this vid starts just before the 2nd plane strikes the second tower. You will see a explosion in the 1st tower that was already hit. I never saw this vid before and if anyone has any other footage of this i'd love to see it.



I don't know why it is saying the video is malformed on youtube but here is the link.

www.youtube.com...

If any mod can edit my post and fix the vid i'd appreciate it

[edit on 1-7-2007 by _Mr.X_]

Originally posted by Nunny
But none of them is good enough for you. You still insist on making a conspiracy of it. If it was a demolition, why the cell phone calls from the air?

They actually didn't, because its impossible to make cell phone calls from an airplane. I remember listening to a program on the subject on NPR a few years back, but essentially the issue is a plane moves so quickly from one cell phone tower to the next, your phone doesn't have time to establish a connection.

In fact, that's why this isreali company developed new technology soon to be widely released which fixes this problem by putting a small cell phone tower on the plane itself.

Originally posted by Nunny
If it was a demolition, why did Osama take credit for it?

He actually didn't. In fact, he denied having anything to do with the 9/11 attacks for three months, which is unlike Bin Laden, who gleefully took credit for the attacks on U.S. embassies he carried out years before.

And if you compare photos of the Bin Laden we're all familiar with, and the Bin Laden who confessed, well, they look quit different. Not to mention the Bin Laden from the confession video is wearing gold, which is strictly forbidden by Islam, and writing with his right hand when Bin Laden is left handed.

Here's a more in depth analysis of the fake video

Originally posted by Nunny
If it was a demolition, how did word not leak out since secrets clearly cannot be kept in this country?

Some people have come forward.

However one reason why more people haven't come forward may be similar to the reason not a single one of the JFK assassination conspirators came forward until 50 year after the fact.. It's a very simple thin called fear of reprisal. If an organization is willing to kill 3,000 people to justify it's own ends, then what's one more person to them?

Originally posted by Nunny
If it was a demolition, why is it that not a single person saw them bring the thousands of pounds of explosives into this building?

Well, if you're planning a black op like this, you generally don't pull a giant truck with the words "EXPLOSIVES" painted on the side up to the front door of the twin towers and have men dressed all in black unload the contents.

However, you do have the bomb sniffing dogs removed from the place you're trying to explode.

And you do have the towers evacuated several times in the weeks leading up to the attack.

And you do have the power shut down in the towers the weekend before the attacks, which turns off all of the security functions of the building, including security cameras.

Originally posted by Nunny
EVERY single source mentioned above investigated this and came to the same conclusion.

Yes, it's very strange that every single investigation hired by our government (FEMA, NIST, and the 9/11 Commission) come to the same conclusion, that our government clearly had nothing to do with the attacks. What a coincidence. I's sure if OJ Simpson was the judge and jury in his trial, he'd be found innocent as well.

Please do some research and reading before you post things that have been covered hundreds of times on these boards.

Ya may be correct on that. From this clip 00.30
0 there are no explosions prior to plane hit.
Bummer, I thought he had some evidence.


[edit on 1-7-2007 by Xwino]

[edit on 1-7-2007 by Xwino]

And if you compare photos of the Bin Laden we're all familiar with, and the Bin Laden who confessed, well, they look quit different. Not to mention the Bin Laden from the confession video is wearing gold, which is strictly forbidden by Islam, and writing with his right hand when Bin Laden is left handed.

Different angles, different lighting, heck, who says that maybe Osama decided he wanted a different nose. By the way, you can prove that the ring is gold, not brass? And you know for a fact that Osama isnt ambidextrious? ...if you do, so when WAS the last time you talked to your uncle.....

They actually didn't, because its impossible to make cell phone calls from an airplane. I remember listening to a program on the subject on NPR a few years back, but essentially the issue is a plane moves so quickly from one cell phone tower to the next, your phone doesn't have time to establish a connection.

Not so difficult over rural areas, cell repeaters there cover much larger areas, so not quite the problem when it comes to switching towers. Making cell calls is quite possible from airplanes. Been there, done that, have the phone bill...

Some people have come forward.

Let's see....foreign goverment leaders (yep thats who I would conspire with), a "colonel" who has done nothing but sully the name of a honorable Air Force officer....sorry, but their not conspirators, just people looking for time in the spotlight.

However, you do have the bomb sniffing dogs removed from the place you're trying to explode.

And thats why the PA lost some K-9s that day...they werent there anymore........True, they did have extra dogs there for a bit at one point, but on 9/11/01 the dogs that were stationed there...WERE there.

And you do have the power shut down in the towers the weekend before the attacks, which turns off all of the security functions of the building, including security cameras

Umm not quite....from your "source"....

SF: I can't absolutely verify that there was no power on lower floors ... all I can validate is that we were informed of the power down condition, that we had to take down all systems and then the following day had to bring back up all systems ...

In other words, the man who is so often used as a source to say that the "Towers were completely powered down" doesnt say any such thing, he can only verify that on HIS floors the power was down. In one tower. Hardly proof that the towers were shut down for the placing of explosives. But then again, we are talking the "supermen" of the demolition business, since they could have wired THREE buildings (2 110 story and one 47 story) in one weekend....when it takes other demoliton companies WEEKS to plan, set up and demolish nine story buildings.

Who was it that said us debunkers did not use common sense????

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999

Not so difficult over rural areas, cell repeaters there cover much larger areas, so not quite the problem when it comes to switching towers. Making cell calls is quite possible from airplanes. Been there, done that, have the phone bill...

Here is the statement of an experienced airline pilot: “The idea of being able to use a cellphone while flying is completely impractical. Once through about 10,000 feet, the thing is useless, since you are too high and moving too fast (and thus changing cells too rapidly) for the phone to provide a signal.”

That has been thoroughly debunked. Source

Let's see....foreign goverment leaders (yep thats who I would conspire with), a "colonel" who has done nothing but sully the name of a honorable Air Force officer....sorry, but their not conspirators, just people looking for time in the spotlight.

Many people have come forward in relation to 9/11. Your assertion in relation to whistle blowers looking for time in the spotlight is false. These people who have come forward have risked there livelihood and put a huge strain on there families. What spotlight? These people often go unnoticed due to the corporate media not exposing there stories that is fact, there not looking for money or fame just telling there experience and what they witnessed.

BeZerK

Here is the statement of an experienced airline pilot: “The idea of being able to use a cellphone while flying is completely impractical. Once through about 10,000 feet, the thing is useless, since you are too high and moving too fast (and thus changing cells too rapidly) for the phone to provide a signal.”

Here is the statement of an aviation maintenance professional with 20 years experience...

Reread my post, I HAVE made cell phone calls from air to ground, over rural areas, much easier to do, and yes, lower altitudes help. Did I mention that I specialize in avionics?

Posting from AK Dewdney is hiliarious though...since his "experiments" were less than accurate. Not to mention he falls into "the calls were faked" trap.

Then there is this...

www.debunk911myths.org...

Gee looks like the calls for the most part were made well under 10,000 feet......

Many people have come forward in relation to 9/11. Your assertion in relation to whistle blowers looking for time in the spotlight is false. These people who have come forward have risked there livelihood and put a huge strain on there families. What spotlight?

From YOUR source..

Alex Jones Interviews Col. Donn de Grand-Pre

This so-called Colonel has sullied the name of Rick Gibney, by declaring that he was the man responsible for shooting down Flight 93....Despite the fact that Lt Col. Gibney was nowhere near Flight 93.

According to Air National Guard spokesman Master Sgt. David Somdahl, Gibney flew an F-16 that morning--but nowhere near Shanksville. He took off from Fargo, N.D., and flew to Bozeman, Mont., to pick up Ed Jacoby Jr., the director of the New York State Emergency Management Office. Gibney then flew Jacoby from Montana to Albany, N.Y., so Jacoby could coordinate 17,000 rescue workers engaged in the state's response to 9/11. Jacoby confirms the day's events. "I was in Big Sky for an emergency managers meeting. Someone called to say an F-16 was landing in Bozeman. From there we flew to Albany." Jacoby is outraged by the claim that Gibney shot down Flight 93. "I summarily dismiss that because Lt. Col. Gibney was with me at that time. It disgusts me to see this because the public is being misled. More than anything else it disgusts me because it brings up fears. It brings up hopes--it brings up all sorts of feelings, not only to the victims' families but to all the individuals throughout the country, and the world for that matter. I get angry at the misinformation out there."

Another "insider"

Alex Jones Interviews Andreas Von Buelow

Former German defense minister? Yeah, he would be the first person I would conspire with, give me a break.

Michael Meacher

Former UK minister.....again, like he would have the first clue about NORAD or anything else.....

What spotlight? These people often go unnoticed due to the corporate media not exposing there stories that is fact, there not looking for money or fame just telling there experience and what they witnessed.

Unnoticed by the corporate media because they are goofy maybe? Makes them perfect for Alex Jones though....

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999

Here is the statement of an aviation maintenance professional with 20 years experience...

Reread my post, I HAVE made cell phone calls from air to ground, over rural areas, much easier to do, and yes, lower altitudes help. Did I mention that I specialize in avionics?

Posting from AK Dewdney is hiliarious though...since his "experiments" were less than accurate. Not to mention he falls into "the calls were faked" trap.

Then there is this...

www.debunk911myths.org...

Gee looks like the calls for the most part were made well under 10,000 feet......

Where did that website recieve the UA93 Altitude levels? I really need a link to where they recieved it otherwise i can simply dismiss it.

Its also amazing to see that if the supposed phone calls worked so well and according to the 9/11 Commission report conveys that cell phone ground to air communication was from high altitude and it was of reasonably good quality, and that there was no major impediment or obstruction in wireless transmission. hmmmm. If that is the case and phone calls were such "good quality" then why did AA and Qualcomm announce the development of a new wireless technology which allows people to make cell phone calls from a commercial plane, if the cell phone calls were such "good quality".

American Airlines and Qualcomm, proudly announced the development of a new wireless technology --which will at some future date allow airline passengers using their cell phones to contact family and friends from a commercial aircraft (no doubt at a special rate aerial roaming charge) - Source

From the 9/11 Commission Report:

the first 46 minutes of Flight 93’s cross-country trip proceeded routinely. Radio communications from the plane were normal. Heading, speed, and altitude ran according to plan. At 9:24, Ballinger’s warning to United 93 was received in the cockpit. Within two minutes, at 9:26, the pilot, Jason Dahl, responded with a note of puzzlement: “Ed, confirm latest mssg plz—Jason.”70 The hijackers attacked at 9:28. While traveling 35,000 feet above eastern Ohio, United 93 suddenly dropped 700 feet. Eleven seconds into the descent, the FAA’s air traffic control center in Cleveland received the first of two radio transmissions from the aircraft....

9/11 Commission report stated that passengers started placing calls with cell phones shortly after 9.32am, four minutes after the report's confirmation of the plane's attitude of 35,000 feet. If your not following, the calls started some 9 minutes before the Cleveland Center lost UA 93’s transponder signal (9.41) and approximately 30 minutes before the crash in Pennsylvania (10.03)..... hmmmmm

At 9:41, Cleveland Center lost United 93’s transponder signal. The controller located it on primary radar, matched its position with visual sightings from other aircraft, and tracked the flight as it turned east, then south. - 911 Commission Report

Its quite obvious that the altitude was known to air traffic control up until the time when the transponder signal was lost.

There was absolutely no indication from the 9/11 Commission that the aircraft had swooped down to a lower level of altitude, apart from the 700 feet drop recorded at 9.28. from an altitude of 35,000 feet.

So thus if the information you provided was correct why was this not included in the 9/11 Commission, this is negligence but maybe they didn't investigate it to its full extent due to the $3 Million of funding it only recieved

BeZerK

[edit on 1-7-2007 by BeZerk]

I feel my post useless compared to the previous (Good job!)

But another point that people don't often hear about the Bin Laden video...

Osama Bin Laden is left handed. In the video he uses his right hand to write.

So for those who say he looks different due to camera/sickness/he wants to/got a tan/gained a few pounds/got a nose job, whatever, theres food for thought.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
And thats why the PA lost some K-9s that day...they werent there anymore........True, they did have extra dogs there for a bit at one point, but on 9/11/01 the dogs that were stationed there...WERE there.

There was one dog that died that day.

Sirius was the only police dog killed by the terrorists on September 11th and, perhaps, the only American police dog ever killed by international terrorists.

www.portauthoritypolicememorial.org...

On that note. Does anyone know how many bomb sniffing dogs there were total? Just curious.

Id like to add a theory of mine to this argument. As we know WTC7 WAS "control demolished". So you have to ask yourself if WTC7 was already rigged to be destroyed then why not WTC 1 and 2 also? All I can surmise is that the US govt. knew the towers would be attacked and plans were made to prepare for the eventualities, that is, the plane attacks. In order to minimize the danger to surrounding buildings in event of attack the towers were rigged to be "control demolished". The US govt wont admit that they did this as it eventuated in the loss of thousands of lives. I welcome your comments on this theory.

Nunny said:

You people never seem to amaze me. We've had people who BUILD such buildings for a living talk about this. People from MIT and Georgia Tech. People from the Army Corp of Engineers. People from the demolition industry.

Heres a website by engineers and architects who think that it was a C.D.It currently has 123 architectural and engineering proffesionals who question the official theory and is growing.Check it out.

Might I add that if the fires was so intense how could those people be standing at the window?? Wouldn't they be dead?? If you take a needle and hold it over a candle the heat travels thru that needle and doesn't turn cherry red till the heat has no where to go.. So the heat to weaken the steal is bogus..The steel would transfer that heat to other parts of that beam and wouldn't be concentrated in one area.. Why doesn't stoves warp or collapse when the self cleaning stoves reach 1000 degrees???Are we to believe they use superior metals in making stoves and kerosene heaters??That is molten steal comming out of the towers and not aluminum..Again there is way to many eyewitnesses not to believe them on what they heard and seen...

Air is not a great conductor of heat. Thats why you can reach briefly into a 450 degree oven with out burning yourself. But try touching a 450 degree pan with your bare hands and you will notice the difference immediatly. The proximity to the fire and the flow of air can cause the temp to vary greatly.

I remember reading a report of the conduct of steel during a fire and it stated that the difference in temp from the bottom flange of a beam to the top flange of the same beam can range up to 750 degrees.

For example, in a composite floor the protected steel
beam will be hottest at the bottom flange, which is closest
to the fire, and coolest at its top flange, which is in contact
with the concrete and floor deck. For this fire exposure,
while the beam bottom flange may have reached sufficiently
high temperatures to lose much of its strength and
stiffness, the upper portions of the beam may be well below
the critical temperatures for steel. In such cases, the top
flange can be as much as 750 °F (400 °C) cooler than the
bottom flange in a 2-hour ASTM E119 test.

This huge difference in temp can cause an enormous about of buckling & twisting, as anyone who has ever used a torch to add camber to a beam will know.

www.aisc.org...

Another interesting statement made here is this;

It can be said with confidence that structural steel does
not melt in building fires, although such possibility is theoretically
possible for certain conditions (comparable to
melting furnace conditions). Building fires simply do not
generate steel melting temperatures that are around 2,700 °F
(1,500 °C).

[edit on 2-7-2007 by Sparky63]

[edit on 2-7-2007 by Sparky63]