Dr. Steven Greer in Montreal on august 9th, 2007

MrdDstrbr. I think those are very reasonable questions for someone to ask Greer at that conference and I'm sure by now there will be a few people who are in the audience who have the same questions we have.

Once again, just because we admire Greer immensely for what he's accomplished so far in terms of disclosure, does not mean that we shouldn't ask those questions about this or that that our on our minds about his work and his organizations. We simply want some answers to some very obvious questions having to do with those images he or someone else posted online and if he will ever show us those photographs and movies taken during his vectoring sessions because obviously, we would love to see them!

Originally posted by Palasheea
Once again, just because we admire Greer immensely for what he's accomplished so far in terms of disclosure, does not mean that we shouldn't ask those questions about this or that that our on our minds about his work and his organizations. We simply want some answers to some very obvious questions having to do with those images he or someone else posted online and if he will ever show us those photographs and movies taken during his vectoring sessions because obviously, we would love to see them!

Yes I think it's very important that these burning questions get answered somehow, as an enormous amount of time and energy is being wasted on ridicule and condemnation that would be much better spent fighting for Disclosure!

Yes I think it's very important that these burning questions get answered somehow, as an enormous amount of time and energy is being wasted on ridicule and condemnation that would be much better spent fighting for Disclosure!

And no matter, what cult greer is going to say, since it's MY time and energy, i'll prefer to go on debunking this greedy liar.

Originally posted by Phil J. Fry
And no matter, what cult greer is going to say, since it's MY time and energy, i'll prefer to go on debunking this greedy liar.

Well, after this weekend, we should have more material to work with hey, Fry?

I can't say that I am eagerly awaiting Cult Greer's replies to any questions, but I'll spend my time reviewing what people post about this coming weekend's moth-vector party.

Originally posted by Phil J. Fry

Yes I think it's very important that these burning questions get answered somehow, as an enormous amount of time and energy is being wasted on ridicule and condemnation that would be much better spent fighting for Disclosure!

And no matter, what cult greer is going to say, since it's MY time and energy, i'll prefer to go on debunking this greedy liar.

Wow, Fry, I'm glad my posts have so thoroughly rankled you that you're even naming your sig after them

Mission accomplished!

Mission accomplished!

If my signature was part of your mission, i'm happy to help

Honestly, i can hardly wait for the new ...ehem.... amazing footage and world changing information coming from greer. I just hope, richie will be back for the show.

Because of these threads on Greer, I'm more than convinced that there are some members here who thrive on hate. And people who hate too much and too often, hate one thing above all else: themselves.

Usually when people get this way, there's usually something personal about them that they hate about themselves but even though that thing may be something that they brought upon themselves, they have trouble blaming themselves so they in turn blame everyone else -- and that's the dynamic of hate, pure and simple.

No one wants to live with the thought that he cannot approve of his own life -- so he externalizes his disapproval and projects it onto everything else or at least on the most convenient thing out there.

If people like this would just keep it to themselves; it might not be too much of a problem. But nooooooo, that just won't do. They must share the misery. They must share the hate. With us.
And that's what they are doing here on this board in these Greer threads.

People who hate too much are driven by 2 great fears.
#1 They are afraid they will be unloved and....
#2 They are afraid they will be ignored.

So they try to compensate for this by hating something that a handful of others on this board hate too... hating Greer is a case in point. Some even gain notoriety for hating something everyone else dislikes because sooner or later those others in that group will start liking them where there's a bonding that takes place. But instead of stopping at the point where they simply jump on the bandwagon, speak their mind and then leave it at that, these serious hard core haters can't stop because their hating is like a drug for them.

The only thing the rest of us can hope for is that eventually these habitual haters will come to hate the earth and everything on it -- so much so, they will then decide to migrate to the moon!

Let's hope this happens soon enough.


[edit on 8-8-2007 by Palasheea]

Hate is such a heavy emotion, tsk....try to edit your post and exchange hate with disgust, which matches it much better. At least, i'm pretty comfortable with my life and not searching for my shining ray of hope in a dismal world.

But thanks for your little try in psychoanalysis, i'm very thankful, that i now know my problems and will be able to work on it.

Please Pala, stay with us in the greer threads, you make me laugh, thanks again for that


Edit : ah, forgot one - how is your effort in getting "prophet yahwe" to ATS going ?

[edit on 8-8-2007 by Phil J. Fry]

Originally posted by Phil J. Fry
Hate is such a heavy emotion, tsk....try to edit your post and exchange hate with disgust, which matches it much better. At least, i'm pretty comfortable with my life and not searching for my shining ray of hope in a dismal world.

Pretty comfortable with your life, until the day the lights and the computer stop turning on, and there's no gas left at the gas stations, and the truckloads of food and supplies stop coming.... WHOOPS!

My life isn't all that bad right now either - it's the immediate future of the planet I'm worried about!

Edit : ah, forgot one - how is your effort in getting "prophet yahwe" to ATS going ?

No new word on my end. With any luck, Debbie will at least discuss the invitation with Greer, which is better than nothing. And Greer seems to be a pretty fair and obliging guy.

Although I feel well loved by my family I do admit to some hatreds, though I think it really is too strong a term. “Hatred” implies an intense visceral emotional, often unreasonable reaction. You can get away with it if you use it in a politically correct way. For example, if you say, “I hate hypocrisy!” everyone will clap and say, “Right On, Brother!” because no one is supposed to like hypocrisy, racism, global warming, whatever. Certain ‘hatreds’ are allowed, even encouraged EVEN among those communities and people who consider themselves enlightened beyond their fellow man.

I hate to see people misled. It bothers me. Why? Because it’s dangerous, because it leads to unfortunate decisions based on faith rather than fact. Now, I’ve been boiled and steeped in a liberal education. I know what cultural relativism is. I know what ethnocentricism is. No one has to lecture me about these concepts; my shelves are filled with books dealing with cultural theory. I know what anthropologists such as A.L. Kroeber did to us to change our thinking on our own culture and train us into liberal apologists. I know just enough to be a terribly irritating armchair psychologist myself, though I harbor grave doubts about psychology being a valid science. Ted Bundy was a psychology major (B.A.: WWSU, 1969). Ted Bundy graduated from my high school.

So when I see a moth described as an alien anchor being and then see people actually defend this interpretation, I admit to being at first aghast, then wanting to discourage this train of thought. Now I have been accused of hating Greer more than once. In fact, I know that if I say the slightest critical word about Greer’s activities, someone will accuse me of ‘hating Greer.’ I protest that every time, but it’s like a deer-in-the-headlights reaction. It’s like they have been mesmerized: “You hate Greer!” No, I don’t. “You hate Greer.” You are making this up. “You hate Greer!” I just have to shake my head in wonder at that reaction. Frankly, I see a cult in the making.

I also hate it when people lie outright. I don’t mean little white lies: “How are you?” “I’m fine,” Well, no, I’m not fine today. One of my friends had a heart attack earlier this week. My dog is sick and I’m worried. It’s raining. There are rats in the crawlspace. I’m nearly out of food. But I’ll say, “I’m fine” anyway because I don’t really want to share those things with you and I know you don’t care enough to want to listen anyway. No, I mean this kind of lie:

“A United States military jet fired a scalar weapon at us which caused a nuclear-like explosion just ahead of us which blew up a mountain.”

That kind of lie. If a United States military jet actually wanted you dead, you would be. A little strafing run would be sufficient (The Marines are especially good at this.) You don’t survive ‘nuclear-like’ explosions. So you read this kind of lie along with many others that have been attributed to Greer (I’ve watched all his videos and heard him say some of these things) and I just have to wonder: Why is he making this stuff up? Now don’t go and tell me it’s all true. We are not going through another lesson in logic and the burden of proof.

Now, I don’t have a problem with his religious belief system. If he believes we have souls that go to another dimension when we die, okay. If he believes in the philosophy of the Mahreshi Yogi, okay! If he believes alien beings are at least partly from another dimension, okay! All that kind of belief structure, whether or not I share it, is okay with me. And it’s also okay to proselytize about these things. Even if he wants to believe a random light in the sky is a legitimate UFO—I’ll even give him that. You see, my liberalism is still intact.

It’s the outright fabrications that bother me. These go beyond misinterpretation. The alien that came through the window, for example. The being of light where the person with the flashlight causing it was filmed hiding in a tree. The underground fight with aliens and special forces. Greer-literature (Greer-lit) is full of these instances. There is no need to list them all here; they’ve been listed before. They’ve been analyzed before. They have been found wanting before.

I don’t know what is making Greer do these things. I don’t know what changed him. But I view these kinds of fabrications as intellectually dishonest and morally corrupt. I believe they are not only mis-leading, but dangerous. The behavior reminds me of Heaven’s Gate, Bo, and Peep. I realize Heaven’s Gate is an extreme, but to me, it’s the same path. Heaven’s Gate got there first. When I see people taken in by this stuff, it’s just sad. And when I see people proselytizing and pushing for Greer, I will not allow that to happen without a challenge. I really don’t want this cult to grow any further. If people new to the field get excited about Greer (as I once was for the Disclosure Project) they need to know about Mothra, too, before they decide to move forward.

As I do this I quite realize there will be those who will accuse me of hating Greer, or who will do the Psych 101 thing of psychoanalyzing my motivations. That is a clear argument ad hominem, but I guess that’s the price for exposing a morally corrupt movement.

@ schuyler : amazing reply.
i agree 100%

I'm not in disagreement about some of your contentions about what Greer has said in the past because I too find some of the stuff a little too far fetched where proof of what he says is seriously wanting. But it's the following part that I have problems with in terms of your point of view on it:

It’s the outright fabrications that bother me. These go beyond misinterpretation. The alien that came through the window, for example. The being of light where the person with the flashlight causing it was filmed hiding in a tree

So you are calling those 'fabrications' when in fact there have been many out there who have experienced 'aliens' coming through windows. In fact, there's an abundant amount of literature that can found of such experiences in alien abduction stories.
And there have been many vids and photo's of what people believe are beings of light after they flash their flashlight into a wooded area or even just into their yards somewhere. Sure I would like to believe that you are calling such cases pure fabrications and nothing more because it was Greer who would be telling us about such experiences or showing photo's taken by him or someone with him at the time when they appeared, but I'm sensing that you don't believe any of those kinds of story's no matter who is telling them and this is what troubles me.

It's apparent that you believe they are fabrications or delusions from the deranged minds of the witnesses.

But this is basically off topic to the thread and I won't go into it more here except to say that I'm always in a complete state of befuddlement when those of you who say that you DO believe in UFOs and the existence of ET's, yet scoff at any story out there of witnesses who either have claimed to have been abducted or are in contact with beings who claim to be from other worlds or have had some extraordinary experiences related to ET's.

All of that information is negated by so many of you here and to me it shows that you pick and choose what you want to believe in in this regard and trash the rest.

But I'm saying that in this case, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you believe that it's possible that ET's are in contact with some people and ,lord forbid, even those ones telling about aliens coming through walls or windows too, or you do not believe in UFOs and ET's or at least hold off from believing that just because ET's are responsible for UFO's flying up there, you nevertheless say with absolute certainty that they would never attempt to contact us on a one to one basis and actually appear to us in some way or form. So this is part that I'm confused about because you're making up you're own rules on what can happen and what cannot happen based on what you're willing to believe or not. Sorry, but things don't always operate that way.

But back to what we were saying before. I think it's best to just let Greer be. There are already story's out there circulating about underground bases and battles going on between grey's and the military so nothing new here and some people really do believe that such things have happened or are even going on now at this very moment. And as far fetched as they may seem, you have a choice to believe it or disbelieve it but either way, you're never going to be able to prove that what you do believe in is true or not... we just don't know. And to say that such story's are too absurd and ridiculous... so belief in UFOs and ETs are not absurd and ridiculous too?? So this is what I mean, you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't choose to believe this or not believe that just because you're not in the mood or not for doing so.. It doesn't work like that. In my book, there's always some grain of truth in story's like this and for this reason they warrant serious OPEN-MINDED analysis and investigation instead of approaching such story's purely from a skeptics stance which results in the loss of potentially valuable information to help put the pieces of this gigantic puzzle together. Even looking at everything as a metaphor is better than trashing such story's for this reason.

As far as Greer haters go, I'm referring to some members here on that and I'm not naming them but they know who they are. Their UNRELENTLESS gleeful bashing and trashing of Greer is a dead give-away where they almost seem pathological to me (and yes, I'm speaking from my post-graduate training in the field of psychology) and I'm seriously wondering if they are. FUNNY IS WHAT FUNNY WANTS AND FUNNY IS WHAT FUNNY GETS, but some go too far with it and I'm finding some members Greer-bashing habits a little too mean and vicious to the point where I find them appalling. I'm surprised they are permitted to continue this way on this board but I'm hoping that will soon change.


[edit on 8-8-2007 by Palasheea]

Originally posted by schuyler
The behavior reminds me of Heaven’s Gate,

Me too, Schu.

I’m a bit concerned about the numerous death or near-death references coming from the Greer camp. His recent revelation that the group were almost fatally attacked by the military using a ‘scalar weapon’, the ‘mysterious’ cancer deaths of his friends and associates, the multiple assassination attempts on his own life, his martyr statement, the clause found in the CSETI release document which implies that attendees of the training sessions may lose their life. Though the incidents he speaks of are clearly all fabricated, his followers seem oblivious to the lies – they believe him, as we have seen by the responses of a few posters here on ATS. Perhaps Greer is attuning his cult members to the possibility of his own and their own imminent death.

Heaven’s Gate founder Marshall Applewhite claimed to have travelled in a flying saucer around which he established his new age, pseudo religious cult (a la Greer).

Applewhite and co-founder Bonnie Nettles used the names Bo and Peep which instantly implies their followers are nothing but sheep. It can be said that people of a ‘sheepish mind’ follow Greer and his ideas unerringly.

Speaking of Shari Adamiak’s death from cancer Greer stated, “Shari Adamiak passed on to the worlds of Light today…” and his eulogy continued, “we saw the depths of space and the people and spacecraft from other worlds.”

Nettles, died of cancer (a la Adamiak) and Applewhite believed she had gone to a higher spiritual level (a la Greer). It is thought that her death pushed Applewhite over the edge and the mass suicide may have been a reconciliation attempt. Perhaps Adamiak’s death was the catalyst that brought about Greer’s current psychological state.

Whereas Applewhite was clearly mad, Greer may simply be bad. He is likely nothing more than a fraudulent charlatan who knows he is telling a crock of lies and does it for the money. (This is the side of the fence I am currently on.)

On the other hand, if Greer is as crazy as his claims are, I’m wondering if something terrible may just happen on a future Ambassador to the Universe Training venture. Something too terrible to contemplate!

Man, that would be terrible -

On the other hand, if Greer is as crazy as his claims are, I’m wondering if something terrible may just happen on a future Ambassador to the Universe Training venture. Something too terrible to contemplate!

I shudder to think that on a cool night in the middle of nowhere, attendees being offered a warm cup of cider or coffee and the unspeakable being found that next morning. That would be horrific on levels I cant even imagine... I certainly hope his bricks are slapped together better than that. People will go to unbelievable extremes to get a point across or to fan a fire, so to speak.


[edit on 8-8-2007 by Lost_Mind]

I have pointed out a few of what I consider Greer’s lies and fabrications that go beyond mis-interpretations. There are more I don’t care to elaborate upon because they have been amply pointed out before. Perhaps someone would like to compile these and write a book about it. That would be great. All these tidbits, anecdotes, and proofs that the Greer Cult has thrown out to the public convince me he is a fraud. I do not believe any jet fired a scalar weapon at him any more than I believe Mothra is an angelic anchor being. If other people do, well, then, may God have mercy on your soul.

But this idea of having my cake and eating it too is simply not the case. I believe, for example, that the contactee/abductee folks fall right in the middle of those who need love and crave attention. They may very well believe themselves. Sleeper may really believe he talks to an alien in his head. Bocephus may really believe he has implants that electrocute him all the time and that cell towers are a control device that the government uses to keep him in line. Insofar as these beliefs create no hazard for others I’m willing to consider these folks harmless enough. But as far as believing their stories: No. I don’t believe sleeper sleeps around with alien chicks any more than I believe George Adamski met his reincarnated wife on Venus. I don’t believe aliens fly through windows to thank Greer for supporting them any more than I believe anyone on ATS is in daily contact with aliens, as some do claim. I don’t believe Greer was attacked with a cancer ray any more than I do the Moon has a breathable atmosphere, half the gravity of earth, and that we are mining some weird material there. These stories are often interesting, but they are fanastical. They fall into a category of myth much like the story of the virgin birth of Jesus. Did that happen? Even theologians say “No” to that, though they don’t do so very loudly.

It’s still great mythology and great stories, and worth the study.

schuyler, So once again, you can't have your cake and eat it too. I suppose you do believe in the Betty Hill case but that's probably because Friedman believes in it. And granted that you are right in not believing some of those extreme cases you are talking about here, you are up against the top scholars in the world who have exclusively focused on the abduction phenomonon yet, you arrogantly are dismissing their findings as if you know better than they do.
Tell me schuyler, do you even believe in UFO's? If so, then who do you believe they are created by and who do you believe are flying them? Just wondering.

Originally posted by Palasheea
And granted that you are right in not believing some of those extreme cases you are talking about here, you are up against the top scholars in the world who have exclusively focused on the abduction phenomonon yet, you arrogantly are dismissing their findings as if you know better than they do.

TOP scholars? WHAT top scholars? Please don't say Hopkins is a top scholar! he's a great artist, though.

Tell me schuyler, do you even believe in UFO's? If so, then who do you believe they are created by and who do you believe are flying them? Just wondering.

Do I believe in Unidentified Flying Objects? Of course. You can see UFOs every day on UTS. They are posted all the time.

"OMG, it's a flying saucer!" Yup, great balloon.
"It's under intelligent control!" It's wafting in the wind.
"OMG, it's a UFO!" It's a bird. Looks good, though.
"OMG, it's a f'ing UFO!" That's an airplane, Francine (Gottigo)

Actually, I suspect most bona fide UFOs, such as triangles, for example, are ours flown by humans, created by us. I'm a fan of several incidents, including Roswell, Cash-Landrum, and Rendlesham Forest. Roswell has aliens, it's true. But I do not believe 'they' are 'here' in numbers sufficient to contact millions of humans. I suspect there is an 'inter-dimensional aspect' to the issue, i.e.: it's not a strictly nuts and bolts issue, as Friedman would have us believe. I'm interesed in theories in physics that would explain that. Vallee is a great author who has some interesting things to say. But when someone comes on here and proclaims to talk to aliens every day, I think they are talking to themselves. Perhaps they need to see someone about it.

A psychiatrist, not a psychologist.

quote]Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by Palasheea
And granted that you are right in not believing some of those extreme cases you are talking about here, you are up against the top scholars in the world who have exclusively focused on the abduction phenomenon yet, you arrogantly are dismissing their findings as if you know better than they do.

TOP scholars? WHAT top scholars? Please don't say Hopkins is a top scholar! he's a great artist, though.

You know exactly who those individuals are and you are purposely evading the question because you know I'm right on this one!!

Originally posted by Palasheea
As far as Greer haters go, I'm referring to some members here on that and I'm not naming them but they know who they are. Their UNRELENTLESS gleeful bashing and trashing of Greer is a dead give-away where they almost seem pathological to me , but some go too far with it and I'm finding some members Greer-bashing habits a little too mean and vicious to the point where I find them appalling. I'm surprised they are permitted to continue this way on this board but I'm hoping that will soon change.

Palasheea, if you find a particular post to be offensive, then you may report it to a moderator, who will decide on the merit and worth of said post.

It may be worth reminding you, that some members who support Cult Greer have been banned for rude, offensive behaviour and also warned multiple times. It seems to me that what you miscontrue as 'hatred' is more likely a case of being blunt, sometimes rude, all mixed with disgusted sarcasm. Those qualities come from both the pro-Cult Greer camp and the anti-Cult Greer camp.

Let the moderators moderate instead of assuming blanket hatred, when you really don't have a clue who any of us are. I find it mildly offensive that you would even try to psycho-deconstruct a person's 'on-screen' ego to try and extrapolate their emotions and convictions.

Anyway, it's possible to tolerate Leader Greer as a human being, but to hate his profit-driven lies.

Originally posted by Palasheea
You know exactly who those individuals are and you are purposely evading the question because you know I'm right on this one!!

Please stop the accusations. I would say your answer was completely and absolutely evasive. Now, WHAT scholars, if you please?