Who all believes this man still has rights, and should not be exucted before friday!

So for all you people who think EVERY human being deserves civil rights and shouldn't be treated badly because he can be rehabed back to normal, or the thought of being mean to another person turns you off...I give you:

officer.com... risoner-Kills-Officer-at-Utah-Hospital/2$36631


This guy doesn't deserve a trial, he doesn't deserve to live past friday...and I can't think of 1...not 1 reason to say otherwise. I'm curious to hear all you bleeding hearts out there why this scum deserves anything short of death! My tax dollars shouldn't be going to house and feed this!

As a fellow Correctional Officer I'm angry and hurt by my fellow professional's murder. He was murdered in the line of duty doing something I've done many times; transporting an inmate to receive medical care. It's true that my heart cries out for vengeance but; that is not the law. This person is entitled to a trial by jury that is his right. Abridging the Constitution does my fellow Correctional Officer no honor. We protect the public we do not advocate throwing the Constitution and Bill of Rights out just because it seem convenient.

Sorry I can't agree with summary execution the courts will decide his fate.

The guy looks like a real pillar of society.:shk:

It sounds like this was cold-blooded murder, no if's, and's, or but's. I say fry him, but we still need to let the legal process go through the motions first.

Originally posted by jsobecky
The guy looks like a real pillar of society.:shk:

It sounds like this was cold-blooded murder, no if's, and's, or but's. I say fry him, but we still need to let the legal process go through the motions first.

I agree 110% it would do the fallen officer no honor to do otherwise. My prayers for him and his family.

I understand giving the courts the chance to give him the death penalty...what I can't understand is this. We will spend thousands on his case, it will take years for him to even get a trial, and he will sit in jail being fed, and taken care of, and we will be putting other CO's at risk because our criminal justice system is filled with so much BS! He should be taken infront of a judge, bench trial, over in a day, executed by weeks end. There he still got his trial...no jury is needed for this...there is NO possable defense that I can see....

We are always at risk that is part of the job. We accept those risks and do our best to minimize them. Sometimes it isn't enough.

The wheels of justice may turn slow but they turn.

The truly sad part about this situation is that there will be very little public outcry.

Originally posted by shadow_soldier1975
I understand giving the courts the chance to give him the death penalty...what I can't understand is this. We will spend thousands on his case, it will take years for him to even get a trial, and he will sit in jail being fed, and taken care of, and we will be putting other CO's at risk because our criminal justice system is filled with so much BS! He should be taken infront of a judge, bench trial, over in a day, executed by weeks end. There he still got his trial...no jury is needed for this...there is NO possable defense that I can see....

And at what price would you label for dismantling the Bill of Rights and the Constitution? That's what it boils down to. Are you willing to throw away what America was founded on for quick revenge? Once you go down that road it would be difficult to bring it back.

BTW, I also work in Corrections and would LOVE to see some people summarily executed, pedophiles come to mind BUT if we were to start killing people without a FAIR trial, you might as well just move to a country that doesn't garrauntee rights and then moan for the past.

Originally posted by shadow_soldier1975
...no jury is needed for this...there is NO possable defense that I can see....

...and, there in a nutshell, is the problem. You can see no defence or need for any normal judicial process because all you've done is to read a media article published about the incident and even that was published by a source which is liable to take a potentially slanted point of view. There is no way you can reasonably claim to have reviewed all of the evidence.

It is not your job to arbitrarily declare guilt or innocence, that function has been assigned to a tried and tested process and even that makes it fair share of mistakes.

Now let's be clear, the probability is that this guy deserves all that is coming to him and probably a bit more on top but unless you want to go back to the days of street lynchings that decision has to be left to the courts.

I just seen this on the news and wow that guy looks like the devils own son. Thats one freaky looking dude.
But to answer the question, no I cant be for killing him that would make me a killer also.
But thats just my opinion so dont freak out on me.

All men deserve due process of the Law, regardless of their personal stature.
But either way he will fry, and thank God for that.

What a loaded thread question. The man is obviously an ignorant and violent ass but the law is there for everyone, including the likes of him, perhaps especially for the likes of him. What you are calling for is little better than encouraging a lynching.

We as a people are better than that.

I'm so proud of ATS members for the way you have answered this thread!

I'm far from a bleeding heart, and I hope this guy gets what he has coming, but to trash the Constitution to do so makes us as bad as the alleged murderer (and everyone else who is trashing the Constitution these days... ).

I love you guys!

So, I raise my hand, shadow_soldier1975. In response to the thread query, I believe this man still has rights and should not be summarily executed.

The law must run its course. Jsobecky, I know you probably didn't mean it quite the way you said it, but the laws and the courts must be undeniably fair, scrupulously fair, no appearance what so ever of merely going through the motions.

My sister, GH, works in corrections and this is one of my recurring nightmares... She goes to work one morning and doesn't come home because some pillar of society gets lucky...

Shadow Soldier. How does summary execution help? It merely lowers us to the level of these animals. I understand the anger, but unleashing it in such a manner does more harm in the long run than it does good. IMHO.

A year ago here in Virginia some yahoo pulled the same stunt down in Blacksburg (site of the Va. Tech. shootings) and when it was all said and done 2 police officers and a security guard were dead. The law ran its course and the man is slated to die.

NOW... I personally am not an advocate of the death penalty; I think that life behind bars in solitary with no chance of parole or release is a far more severe punishment. If you think that is not severe enough remember, after a few years in solitary, Timothy McVeigh begged to die.

That being said; even I have to say justice was served. Maybe not the way I would like, but justice was served.

What is being suggested here may satisfy on a gut level but it is not justice, and in the long run, makes us no better than this man.

We do not have to like the way justice works, but that is moot; the fact that it works for everyone equally is the point.

Good Afternoon,

I've spent some time today thinking about this incident as indeed I'm sure most Corrections professionals did and I hope you will all bear with me as I share them with you.

The Constitution states "All men are created equal" in my opinion this means that all are equal under the law. This includes every one even people like this individual. The laws apply equally to all; he is entitled to a jury trial unless he chooses to waive that right.

The Constitution and Bill of Rights are not just really good suggestions nor a damn piece of paper; they are the heart and soul of this country. They are the basis of who we are and not to be discarded. No and No again. They are for the protection of all and must be upheld and protected. Should we fail to protect the rights of all whether they be guilty or innocent we have failed not only the Founding Fathers but our children and all future generations of Americans.

When I joined the Navy I swore an oath in front of God to "Protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America" and though I'm no longer active duty I still believe in that oath and my responsibility to uphold the tenants of this great nation. We've had our troubled times before and we'll have them again but as long as we hold to the standard set by the Constitution we will get through them.

These are the beliefs that the military and all in law enforcement hold near and dear to violate them is to bring no honor to the fallen and indeed renders the deaths meaningless.

Thank you all and I'll get off my soapbox.

To all who have posted...don't get me wrong, I believe the judicial system still should give him his hearing. Where my anger and frustration lies is I am to the point that our Constitution and BOR needs a new amendment. We have all these people killing with no mercy, no care what happens and really what is the worst that can happen to them. These career criminals know the law better than your average person and use that to their advantage. They kill, or rape, etc.. and know the only thing that will happen is they get a prison sentence or the death penalty (which pretty much means they will still live another 20 years at a minimum). This means they get FREE meals, FREE air conditioning, FREE heat, FREE TV, FREE medical, FREE internet, visits from family (conjugal visits even)! FREE because those of us who work and pay taxes feed the animals like this guy who killed a CO for no reason other then to kill and escape, or for his little gang of AN or NN, which are quite evident on his lovely tatts!

Now by the amendment I mean this. When our founding fathers wrote the constitution and bor, times were MUCh different. These days with video and cameras crimes are caught on tape with NO DOUBT who did them. So why are we still wasting tons of money on long drawn out trials, and appeals, and housing criminals WE KNOW did the crimes. This case is cut and dry, the prisoner took the CO's weapon, murdered him and then tries to escape. Does he deserve his day in court? sure...does it need to be by a jury that drags on for days costing us thousands of dollars? NO. Does someone caught on video killing another person, or raping a person, etc need a long drawn out hearing? NO! Bench Trial is all thats needed. View the tape, judge says Oh look, its you killing that other person, guilty, then sentence him. 1 day, $100 bucks..its over. AND JUSTICE WAS STILL SERVED..he got his day in court, he got his due process, and he gets whats coming to him....

Now for all of you who will disagree with me..let me make one other point before I get yelled at..lol....

We as the US Criminal Justice System really need to start setting a precident. For WAY to long we baby, and coddle criminals. As stated above these prisoners and criminals know the system and how easy it is. They know they will get all that free stuff and in some cases a better life in the house then on the street...so there is NO FEAR of punishment. So now all of a sudden the CJ system says enough is enough.....and they take a guy like this who kills a CO in cold blood, gives him a 1 day trial and the next day he meets the needle. Or the rapist who kidnaps a 10 year old, beats them and rapes them, then kills them is caught, have a hearing, he/she is found guilty and the next day gets the needle....NOT 20 YEARS LATER, IF EVER....that in turn will tell the other sick bastards that hey...maybe what i'm about to do isn't worth it....will it deter ALL criminals...of course not...but if we don't do something crime as it has in the past 20 years will continue to spiral out of control and if we don't get a handle on it now and show them there really are consequences...the horrible things you think are bad now, will only double! Time has proven that....

I don't disagree that the criminal justice system needs an overhaul. I'm there 100%, but leave the Constitution and BoR out of it!

I would love to..but they go kind of Hand and Hand...but in some aspects i am sure leaving them out of it is possible IF lawyers, judges, and most importantly the PEOPLE wanted the change and got tougher.

There has been only 1 amendment to the Constitution in the last 35 years and that was for the operation of government. Once you get into amending the Constitution you are looking at involving ALL aspects in the gov. Executive, Legislative, Judicial.

I don't see a sweeping issue here where the Constitution needs to be revisited to see justice done. This is a matter for the Judicial arm and it seems like the parts are in place. The SPEED of this seems to be bothering some. Not worth amending the Constitution imo. It's already there. Let it take it's course.

Well, at least he's easy to spot in a crowd.

He might not deserve a lawyer and a trial or even oxygen, but he's guaranteed legal representation and a fair trial by the Constitution.

His would be a good case on which to reinstitute public execution.

[edit on 2007/6/26 by GradyPhilpott]