FBI to restrict student freedoms

Originally posted by malganis
as a student I can say that one of the best parts of uni is the fact that there are so many like-minded people like myself that I can share my work with and get feedback, advice, etc

Originally posted by hoochymama
Isn't the Foreign exchange program one of the ways we SHOW other Countries our Brainwashing capabilities?? The Foreign exchange program is a really big deal for Universities and now trickles down to the High School level a great deal.

Amendment I - Ratifies 12/15/1791.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

(Bold emphasis is mine)
Doesn't the gathering of educated minds in a University/School setting sound like "freedom of speech" & "peaceful assembly?"
Even if the FBI (as a law-enforcement agency under the Executive Branch) tries to enforce such policies, people must consider that the Executive Branch would therefore be enforcing non-legislated policy which runs completely counter to the Executive's duty to "faithfully execute the laws." Oh, that's only one more Breech of Constitutional Oath, so who really cares?
Another consequence of enforcing these restrictions, the "independent study" method is a good way to counter the coverups & collusions between corps & government...Such as the independent studies linked from this thread. Without being able to conduct independent studies, how much more would remain hidden to the Public at large?

Originally posted by dingleberry77
Serioulsy, people would flip out if they did it. The country can't be that stupid.

But then again, the government & the corps actually want everybody to be dumb. Take a look at the state of the education system & how the mass media corps have bred a national short attention span. Granted, not everybody falls for it, but most do & that's the sad part.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
Check the fbi.gov website.

All the sources point to one thing: the federal government is picking sides. Students who think for themselves (or anyone for that matter) are the enemy.

Note the existence and enforcement of the Patriot Act (& subsequent documents/policies that stem from it). Totally Unconstitutional & Congress even voted in favor of it without even reading it! To me, this also points to Congress failing in it's duty to the People & the Constitution...If they truly wanted to correct that mistake, they'd Repeal it! If they're still concerned with National Security, they could then re-work the Patriot Act, to fall within Constitutional restrictions...But Nooooo!

Originally posted by marg6043
One of the things I see here is that unfortunately the group of students population that do very well in this type of projects are usually foreign students.

One example of this, I can recount from personal experience: Everybody needs to partake of doctor's services from time to time, right? Of all the doctors I've encountered in my life, I've found that doctors who are legal immigrants are porportionately better-skilled & develop better patient-relationships than American-born who become doctors. I've asked some of them about that and, for the most part, such legal immigrants come to America wanting the superior opportunities that they couldn't get in their native countries...So they're willing to work & study harder. In short, they don't take their education for granted, like many Americans do when they enter the college/university setting.

Originally posted by hoochymama
Our country is filled with people who only care about Money. I believe the root of all evil is Money, especially when its centrally controlled.

Actually, the Bible quote is, "love of money is the root of all evil." However, it's already been established that the government really loves (corporate) money more than its Citizens or the Constitution to which they're sworn to obey, so the intent behind your statement is still valid.

Originally posted by shots
" to be on the lookout for foreign spies or potential terrorists trying to steal their research"

But within the broadly-defined terms of the Patriot Act, anybody, foreign or native, is already being profiled as "potential terrorists." As it was pointed out before, the US Government has declared even American Citizens to be their enemy.

Originally posted by SteveR
Read the document. It does not make exception to students. It says, and I quote.

..."We should report observations of one or more of the following indicators pertaining to a person with access to classified information."

Point taken: However, the government has been "instructing" the blind sheep among the populace to act as government spies on everyone else. The sad thing about those people is that the government won't even give them any paychecks for working as their spies; The TIPS Program also comes to mind here. "Unpaid rendering of service" at its finest!

Originally posted by biggie smalls
"Freedom isn't free." Yeah because it doesn't exist anymore. We all have to pay with our lives now.

So true...Freedom isn't free. The cost is eternal vigilance. When vigilance has failed, the cost becomes lives.

Midnight,

You're 100% correct in your assessment.

Lets not forget we no longer have our rights. And, the regular lower schools are also under this control (though much isnt said about this)
Its pretty obvious.
No hugging law comes to mind. For little kids?? It may not seem important, but there is so much you can read into this. Its very inhuman.
Why hug when they are doing it to teach kids not to get close and programming them so they can turn each other in??? Think about it.
We are going into very very strange times.

That this seems to be addressed to foreign exchange students with sensitive access or not is entirely moot.... this is how things are done these days by this administration; start with something everyone could theoretically agree on, then quietly extend it to everyone else.

Personally I don't think this is in any way shape or form enforceable, but really it is the effort that is important.

The free exchange of ideas, being exposed to a diversity of viewpoints and opinions are the building blocks of all serious educations.... to limit the access to ideas in the long run is antithetical to a real education and creates nothing but indoctrination and ignorance.

Thank you for the word that suits this the most: INDOCTRINATION.

That is precisely what this is.

Main Entry: in·doc·tri·nate
Pronunciation: in-'däk-tr&-"nAt
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -nat·ed; -nat·ing
Etymology: probably from Middle English endoctrinen, from Anglo-French endoctriner, from en- + doctrine doctrine
1 : to instruct especially in fundamentals or rudiments : TEACH
2 : to imbue with a usually partisan or sectarian opinion, point of view, or principle *******

When I was young, my parents for some reason taught me to think for myself and have regretted their decision ever since.

The title of this thread is not merely misleading, it's a pure falsehood, and it should be changed if any of the moderaters of this forum are paying attention.

I read the story and no constitutionally gauranteed freedoms have been revoked or limited in any way.

How about this alternate thread title?

"FBI intimidation may result in behavior modification of some students at Universities performing high tech research sensitive to US economic/national security"?

Or for brevity...

"FBI anti-espoionage initiative may intimidate some students"?

Originally posted by darkbluesky
The title of this thread is not merely misleading, it's a pure falsehood, and it should be changed if any of the moderaters of this forum are paying attention.

I read the story and no constitutionally gauranteed freedoms have been revoked or limited in any way.

How about this alternate thread title?

"FBI intimidation may result in behavior modification of some students at Universities performing high tech research sensitive to US economic/national security"?

Or for brevity...

"FBI anti-espoionage initiative may intimidate some students"?

Here's a better one yet:
"FBI advises educators on how to detect espionage. CT's claim they invoke Police State and Revoke Constitution. CT's panic in the street."

Originally posted by marg6043
I believe that this is to target foreign change students and not American ones.

You might be very right, Marg.

Remember this?

According to reports of the scandal, around 120 young Israeli citizens, posing as art students and selling paintings door-to-door, have been arrested and deported from the United States. The door-to-door sale of art works, it is claimed, was a front for a sophisticated spy ring: the students would turn up at homes and offices--especially at buildings housing federal authorities and military bases, and even went to the homes of those employed in these offices. The students attempted to form friendships with federal employees, photograph their offices, tap their phone lines and infiltrate their databases.

Source

Im pretty sure this has been reported in the mainstream media as well.


[edit on 25-6-2007 by Mdv2]

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
Point taken: However, the government has been "instructing" the blind sheep among the populace to act as government spies on everyone else. The sad thing about those people is that the government won't even give them any paychecks for working as their spies; The TIPS Program also comes to mind here. "Unpaid rendering of service" at its finest! :

instructing people to spy on other ...... THATS WHAT STALIN'S NKVD USE TO MAKE ANND ADVICE soviet PEOPLE TO DO .....

MAN , USA is becoming USSA ,or should i say stalinist.............


USA has jumped into the shoes of nazi germany and soviet russia

The source article has been spun so hard it's making me dizzy

Edit : Sorry, my bad. Missed the one article.


[edit on 6/25/2007 by eaglewingz]

The government links that are given don't tell administrators to restrict anything. They don't say that students can't work late.

This www.ncix.gov... says that working odd hours is a warning sign of a possible spy/terrorist. The word student doesn't appear in the document.

Of course the FBI is going to tell administrators to watch for spies on college campuses. Thousands upon thousands of foreign nationals are attending American universities. Do you really think there isn't a few here and there working for their governments in some capacity?

I don't see where students "freedoms" are going to be restricted. These hyperbolic, reactionary titles have to go.

The people that support the government in lock step are no worse than the people that make everything it does 10 times worse than it is. There's sheep on both sides of the spectrum.

SportyMB is absolutely correct, many here are just being typical alarmists. All of this is just common sense and is already done (or should be) at all credible research universities and private corporations. If folks aren't working on government-funded projects and don't need security clearances, the internal security of the institution still practices precautions to prevent against state-sponsored and corporate espionage. The research universities and their professorial staff depend on producing research for their funding (this is why at the major universities many professors absolutely hate to actually teach - it takes them away from what they believe is their important work.)

Undergraduates don't work on anything important that can't be found with a simple google search, so this won't apply to them, and community colleges are like high-school+ so even less worries there. Nobody is going to care about what Billy the sophomore zoology major is doing on his weekends in Mexico. This affects a very small number of very highly specialized folks, who should have already been screened thoroughly.

As for students working against each other, well, at competitive schools students have always constantly sabotaged each other. I remember way back in high school when I was considering where I wanted to attend university reading a book called "Most Cutthroat Schools" or something of the like - it made school sound exciting . Especially the higher up you get, I don't think many would have a problem raising security concerns about a colleague if they somehow benefited.

I'm sorry I can't be too concerned, but if this hasn't been going on since the beginning of time, it certainly should have.

Originally posted by MD
You might be very right, Marga.
Remember this?

Source

You know this is the first time I see have given much interest to that article, you know that when it comes to Israel is never a wrong doing coming from their part.

Originally posted by Sauron
according to a set of guidelines

Did any of you actually read this article that the original poster sited?

This document is guidelines for government workers to help them see the signs that their coworkers in the government may be spies.

This has nothing to do with students. Whoever associated this government paper with students is wrong.

I would like to see the FBI restrict my freedoms as a student.....oh wait apparently they already have! Damn.

ill have to read through the rest of the post, but this is not being forced, nor is it any type of law. basically they are asking universities to monitor these activities, and to promote telling on people who seem to be being mischievous. i dont think alot of people on the first page actually read the article. they are not FORCING universities to do anything, technically, but im sure the governments influence on universities is pretty strong, so most universities might comply, but they named specific universities that they have a more focussed attention on, and those obviously seem to be the "brainiac" universities, where some young nerd could get mixed into the wrong crowd, and convinced into doing something for the wrong reasons, or just flat out doing things for the wrong reasons. young extremely smart, dummies, are dangerous. basically i mean. someone who could create something very dangerous at the young dumb age of 18, can easily be tricked by some foreign terrorst trying to get him to create something for a "science project".
they are educating staff and students on espionage, so they wont get tricked by some terrorist. some people are blowing this out of proportion, and the thread title is misleading. and the article title is misleading. they are not forcing anyone to do anything.

The problem is that the "pressesc" site tries to present the "guidelines for detecting a potential security threat" as if some sort of new law has been passed or something. Just browsing the titles of some of the other articles on the sidebar of that page can tell you a good bit of the level of intellectual integrity it has.

I think the best link of the group is the FBI site:
www.fbi.gov...
It doesn't seem to display anything other than a common sense approach. Some people will believe anything they read, as long as it's not from a reputable source

Originally posted by SaucyRossy
I would like to see the FBI restrict my freedoms as a student.....oh wait apparently they already have! Damn.

They did? What did they do to you?

Oh yea, shrug it off, you cant put two and two together can you?

They already started in Virginia schools, no touching! Now its anyone who works "odd" hours, is a potential terrorist? ooo just like people with levis jeans and cell phones, and people who defend the constitution, are potential terrorists, FBI documents even said it, I made a thread about it go read it.

Cant you see, this is all part of creating a paranoid society, so youd be begging the feds for more restrictions to keep you safe from Al Queda. Its a fallacy, its meant to put fear in your minds, then youll give up liberty for security.

Folks, the Al Queda threat is a fiction, its meant to coalesce you into going along with whatever new "measures" they create to stop the "threat". Folks wake up, restrictions is what the NWO is all about.

[edit on 25-6-2007 by LightWorker13]

Originally posted by AlphaHumana
The problem is that the "pressesc" site tries to present the "guidelines for detecting a potential security threat" as if some sort of new law has been passed or something.

Exactly, and then everyone jumps on the band wagon without reading all the articles and supporting links that make up the entire picture. That happens alot here, people comment and post with reading the articles....only the thread title.

Originally posted by LightWorker13
They already started in Virginia schools, no touching! Now its anyone who works "odd" hours, is a potential terrorist?

Anyone? Please reread the articles, they clearly say that this only applies to persons who have access to information, research and projects that could possibly be of a security risk if leaked to other nations who wish to cause harm to the US.

It does not say anyone or every student, only that select few I mentioned above....in addition to the already employed government workers who have clearances. It's the same guidelines that has been around for years.

Did anyone read the OP's supporting links? It's all there..lol

Sporty


[edit on 26/6/2007 by SportyMB]