Islamic Extremism vs. Christian Extremism

This is to respond to Theindependentjournal that think only Islam preach violence.
I have news for you, all 3 religions preach violence end of the story.
There is some violence from the Christian Bible:


In Leviticus 25:44-46, the Lord tells the Israelites it's OK to own slaves, provided they are strangers or heathens.

In Samuel 15:2-3, the Lord orders Saul to kill all the Amalekite men, women and infants.

In Exodus 15:3, the Bible tells us the Lord is a man of war.

In Numbers 31, the Lord tells Moses to kill all the Midianites, sparing only the virgins.

In Deuteronomy 13:6-16, the Lord instructs Israel to kill anyone who worships a different god or who worships the Lord differently.

In Mark 7:9, Jesus is critical of the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as prescribed by Old Testament law.

In Luke 19:22-27, Jesus orders killed anyone who refuses to be ruled by him.

It is easy to accuse of violence other religion when taking quote from religious book out of context. I hope you understand what my exercise there was for. You can do that with any book, holy or not.

kacou

Some Extremist Christian views are as twisted as their Islamic counterparts, however, who are the people who are currently acting on their beliefs?

As far as the most dangerous goes, Extremist Islam wins hands down

hmm, that's a pretty bold statement considering the number of extremist groups of every religious persuasion.

Have you thought that the islamic groups are the only ones we get to hear about? due to the need for public support in "the war on terror"?

Originally posted by budski

hmm, that's a pretty bold statement considering the number of extremist groups of every religious persuasion.

Have you thought that the islamic groups are the only ones we get to hear about? due to the need for public support in "the war on terror"?

Bold but correct.

Right, so now there is a widespread media conspiracy to cover up Christian extremist activities. Half of the Western media defends Islam to high heaven. Just read articles from AFP or Reuters for example. There ISN'T a vast anti-islam conspiracy going on.

Gee, and yet agiain I get drawn into a thread I intended just reading and not contributing but I just can't seem to help myself.

The Crusades, which every Muslim extermist seems to use as an excuse for commitiing acts of terrorism, started in response to Muslims forcibly taking control of Jerusalem, a city that they had no legitimate claim on.
The Catholic Church then sent an army over to reclaim the lands, especially Jerusalem. Acts of an horrific nature were perpetrated by both sides.
Now come on guys, this happened between 700 and 1000years ago and we are still arguing and killing each other over it. Doesn't exactly paint either religion in a good light does it.

Yes, Christianity has periodically committed acts of total brutality since then and can hardly be described as "without sin" and has certainly contributed to the current situation, but when was the last time a Christian fundamentalist flew a plane into a building killing thousands of innocent people whilst singing "Ave Maria"? It simply does not happen anymore.
As appaling as I find Christianity, it;s followers have progressed and even the most heinous do not preach the total obliteration and genocide of non-believers. Muslim fanatics do, that is the simple difference.

I am by no means saying that all Muslims behave and act like this but a minority do and Muslim communities, in general, take no action to stop them.

Christian fundamentalists have progressed, (slightly), Muslim fundamentalists have regressed.

Sorry for any offence, but that's how I see it given my personal experiences in the UK and my observations of world events.

I fully accept both points - but what I'm talking about is the level of extremism in both religions rather than how successful they have been in perpetrating crimes against those who do not share their views.

Here's a link listing just SOME of the christian extremist groups:
www.meta-religion.com... and a modern example of christian extremism:
www.meta-religion.com...


The fact that these groups are unable to plan or execute atrocities makes them no less extremist.

I also never mentioned a media conspiracy - but the media is so focussed on islamic extremism/terrorism and the christian groups are so inept by comparison that the christian groups do not get reported as much, if at all.

[edit on 2/8/2007 by budski]

Bud, some of the organisations listed are not Christian, just because they are white supremicists does not in turn mean that they are preaching a brand of Christian extremism, a lot of National Socialists are atheists and a few pagan. Christians also come from all racial groups and not all whites are Christians.

Yes, there are Christian extremists but they are not as widespread within the Christian community as Muslims extremists appear to be within the Muslim community, at least not here in the UK. I suspect that it may indeed be quite different in the US.

The reason the media focus on Muslim extremism is because they are the ones who are committing acts of terrorism at present, not Christian extremists. The minute they start committing similar acts then I'm certain the focus of attention may switch. Let's just hope it doesn't happen.

The point is that they ALL claim to be or have affiliations to, christian organisations.

I agree with your point about them being predominantly white, but this is because they are from the US, where for many years, white supremacists have believed that they are doing "gods work" in "keeping the white race pure".

There are, in the US, many home grown terrorist groups who purport to have gods backing, in exactly the same way that islamic groups do.

This probably has something to do with the fact that they are extremist organisations.

remember, that not all terrorism is violent.

Take a look at the affiliations and goals of some of those nazi's and tell me they are any better than the islamic variety.

As I said before, they are in many cases too inept to cause the same kind of devastation, but that does not make them any less extreme - after all, it's not a competition as to who can commit the worst atrocities, it's about extremism.

The use of paganism within Neo-nazi organisations is increasing.
This is because they perceive these religions to be White European by inception and thus untainted by Eastern, Jewish, Muslim etc influence.

The beliefs of the organisations listed are no less odious than those expoused by Muslim extremists; the difference is that the Christian extremists are racial by creed and have no desire to spread their beliefs to other races, basically a white only credo. On the other hand, the Muslim extremists wish to convert us all to their belief by any means necessary and as such are a greater threat to world security.

Chrtistian extremists wish to enslave, Muslim extremists wish to convert or destroy. Both are onorous and need to be resisted at every opportunity.

Originally posted by Freeborn

The beliefs of the organisations listed are no less odious than those expoused by Muslim extremists; the difference is that the Christian extremists are racial by creed and have no desire to spread their beliefs to other races, basically a white only credo. On the other hand, the Muslim extremists wish to convert us all to their belief by any means necessary and as such are a greater threat to world security.

Chrtistian extremists wish to enslave, Muslim extremists wish to convert or destroy. Both are onorous and need to be resisted at every opportunity.

I agree,
probably the main difference now is that muslims still want to spread the word of their version of religion - apart from the catholics the rest of christianity has pretty much stopped, with the exception of some extremists.

If there's a god, I wonder if he intended his word to be used this way.

the crusades actually started when the Byzantine Emperor Alexios I Komnenos asked for western mercenaries to help fight the Turks in Anatolia.it had nothing to do with the muslim state,but Pope Urban 2nd used this invertation as an excuse to start the crusades.In areas which were previously under Persian or Byzantine rule, the Caliphs lowered taxes, provided greater local autonomy, greater religious freedom for Jews, indigenous Christians, and brought peace to peoples demoralized and disaffected by the casualties and heavy taxation that resulted from the years of Byzantine-Persian warfare.i don't think anyone will ever know why Pope Urban took such action.and yes it may have happened many years ago,but peace in the middle east still illudes us.only now the fight is muslim and jew,not muslim and christian.

Sparky63,i think you need to re-read the bible mate.god's favourite pass time is advocating violence against others! here's 2 excellent examples.i have many more

""Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.""(Isaiah 13:15-16)

""Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."" (Numbers 31:16-18)


jesus may have said that we should turn the other cheek,but he also said,

""Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works."" (Revelation 2:22-23)


""Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."" (Matthew 10:34-37)


i also found this interesting statement the other day,

""I am the root and offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."" (Revelation 22:16)

uhm,i thought lucifer was the morning star,not jesus!!

Originally posted by budski
I agree,
probably the main difference now is that muslims still want to spread the word of their version of religion - apart from the catholics the rest of christianity has pretty much stopped, with the exception of some extremists.

incorrect. the majority of christian sects regularly participates in missionary work for the sole reason of "saving souls"

If there's a god, I wonder if he intended his word to be used this way.

if there is a god, how do we know it would have words?

I think this is getting slightly off thread, no-one is denying that there are Christian extremists and that some of the teachings within The Bible are on a par as some of those from The Koran for their barbarity or intolerance. I think the OP was trying to highlight the similarities or the differences in approach or actions etc of Christian or Muslim extremists and the potential threat they may be.

en.wikipedia.org...

I think this link will help anyone who requires to learn about The Crusades; they started with the intension to reclaim Jerusalem and to stop Muslim expansionism into lands thay had no historical claim over.
But wtf, isn't that the history of mankind in a nutshell; the continual migration of a species, or races within the species, by whatever means necessary, to further their sphere of influence and control, there's nothing new or unique about it.

Originally posted by jakyll
Sparky63,i think you need to re-read the bible mate.god's favourite pass time is advocating violence against others! here's 2 excellent examples.i have many more

""Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.""(Isaiah 13:15-16)

Taken out of context this would seem to agree with your point. However it should be understood by all that this was a prophesy against Babylon. The violence carried out against Babylon would not be by the captive Jews, but instead by the Medes and Persians when they overthrew Babylon.

""Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."" (Numbers 31:16-18)

I can't argue with you here. God certainly did authorize the Israeilites to destroy the idol worshipping Midianites. However it should be noted this is ancient history. It was a violent time for all nations back then. Israel had a God given right to the land occupied by Midian, Midian was not about to be evicted without a fight to the finish. They could not both occupy the same land. Was it justified? If you believe the Bible, then it was because the Almighty Himself authorized it, and of course the Midianites could have capitulated and become foreign residents in the land of Israel, as long as they obeyed the law. If you dont believe the Bible, then it is just another bloody battle in mans long history of war.

jesus may have said that we should turn the other cheek,but he also said,

""Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works."" (Revelation 2:22-23)

PLease keep in mind that the book of Revelation makes great use of symbolism. This particular passage is in reference to the Jezebel like influence that was being tolerated in the Congregation of Thyatira.
In no way was Christ authorizing his followers to do physical harm to those who manifested this rebellious spirit. Notice that Christ is here saying that HE would take action against them. They were Spiritually sick, so in symbolic language they would be spiritually dead in his eyes.

""Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."" (Matthew 10:34-37)

It was not Christ followers who would use the sword against their family members. The Sword symbolizes dividing. The Christian way would cause a dividing to take place between family members. Some family members would be opposed to ones taking up the Christian way of life. Jesus was warning his followers that their choice was not going to be an easy one, but would dramatically alter their lives.



I will agree with you that ther are numerous accounts in the "Old Testament" where acts of voilence were committed. But you are in error when you claim that Christ advocated, admonished or encouraged his followers to react violently to persecution or oppression against anyone.

[edit on 2-8-2007 by Sparky63]

Why are Neo-Nazi's constantly accused of being Christian? Infact the doctrine of Nazism and Facism attempted to quash all religion and that included Christianity which is still far and away the most established religion in the west.

Just because someone is white and thus may not target Chrisitans, because most are white, doesn't mean they are Christian, they just don't have a problem with them. Neo-Nazism is about Skin Colour and heritage. I've yet to see a tattooed up biker nazi going to my local church. These people are scum, and they know it, they are hardly going to be active Christians who help with charity events every other week are they?

The Bible in parts advocates violence in certain circumstances, YES. And yes, Christian's did used to follow this (the inquisition, burning witches etc the crusades) might I add the crusades was very much 50/50 in its level of depravity. But at this present point in time, Christians have progressed onto a different level, whilst Islam still seems to be stuck in a rut of victimisation, knee jerk, intolerant reactions, and medieval religious law.

[edit on 4-8-2007 by Peyre]

Peyre,
If you check the link, you'll see that it is a religious information website.
The white power/nazi groups mentioned all claim to have a religious following or affiliation.

In reality, they are no more christian than islamic terrorists are true muslims - and yet they claim to be, simply as a vehicle for their twisted views.

Originally posted by budski
I submit that we are in danger from any form of extremism, from any religion, whether that be through violence, the erosion of certain rights, undermining freedom of choice, or simple intolerance of other peoples lifestyles.

The discussion of extreme Christianity is nothing more than a red herring for violent Islamics. Even if there were violent Christians protesting, burning buildings, beheading people, and flying airplanes into buildings, it would not change the fact that Islam is a fairly violent, repressive religion.

Further proof that this is just a red herring is seen in the ever-present flag waving and pointing to the Crusades hundreds of years ago. Others will quickly point out how violent some of the Old Testament stories seem to be. They're talking about events that happened B.C. to deny the current-day events that Islamics are carrying out.

There is no comparison. Extreme Christians protest R rated movies, abortion, and won't swim in public pools. No one is afraid to meet a band of Christians on the street except to say "O no, they're going to preach to me." That's the threat of Christianity. The fear of being told that you're out of line and not going to Heaven. A stern talking to seems to be Christians choice of weaponry. You could say the same thing about politicians.

Islam on the other hand is quite violent in it's extreme form. We all know this first hand. The next sound you're likely to hear after shouts of "Allah Akbar" is a car bomb or gun-fire.


[edit on 5-8-2007 by dbates]

Originally posted by Clearskies
What early church are you talking about? Before constantine christians were slaughtered wholesale by Rome.After constantine, when it became the state religion, it morphed into something resembling ancient Babylon.
Alexander Hyslop's The Two Babylons

Jesus warned us of all these things.

This is certainly off topic, but you may want to reconsider using The Two Babylons as source material. It's an extremely flawed work by a polemicist. It's barely a step above Jack Chick's pamphlets.

Eric

Originally posted by kacou

In Mark 7:9, Jesus is critical of the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as prescribed by Old Testament law.

In Luke 19:22-27, Jesus orders killed anyone who refuses to be ruled by him.

Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Is this the quote that you were referring to?

Eric