Law Firm's "How Not To Hire Americans" Video Sparks Firestorm

Originally posted by shots

Pieman your story about your mother does not touch my heart you might think you are special but you are not, both my parents and their parents came here as immigrants, so you get get down off your perch, no need for grand standing since you are not the only one who had parents who were immigrants.

[edit on 6/24/2007 by shots]

LOL as if I was posting it to touch your heart. You actually think it was for your benefit? There are people that know and appreciate that story. Obviously your parents must have had connections to get here and were set up with cash before they got here or you wouldn't be so blatantly ignorant about the whole thing as if its the first time you've heard such things. Maybe your family used the ole Politically or Religeously persecuted deal to come to this country..I have no idea, maybe you don't either since you seem to think its so easy to legally come here.

The Winged Wombat

Originally posted by The Winged Wombat
You see, that is where you are totally wrong!

She would not be cheap labour - she would be extremely expensive.

She did not apply for a job in America at all - EVER.

America wants HER!

She is ranked #3 in her field (#1 and #2 are already at other US Universities - I have no idea of their nationalities).

She has NEVER had a wish or desire to live in America.

The University concerned feels they NEED her.

It is obvious to me that you are both so arrogant that you cannot comprehend that America does not have a monopoly on skilled, talented, or highly intelligent individuals. You believe that America has the best of everything - if that were the case, why would America EVER have to buy anything from anyone else in the world.

When I wrote my original response to you, I tried to acknowledge that your daughter has special skills that would allow her to write her own ticket under most circumstances.

I then tried to show how she could become a victim of the unfair practices being used by this law firm, in spite of her qualifications.

I was paying a compliment to your daughter, and wishing her success in life.

You somehow managed to twist that around into an attack on me ( and shots ).

There was no need for you to be so acerbic in your response. Nowhere did I imply the things you accused me of.

You need to chill out and work on your reading comprehension.

Obviously your parents must have had connections to get here and were set up with cash before they got here or you wouldn't be so blatantly ignorant about the whole thing as if its the first time you've heard such things.

Boy are you way off base, and you are assuming again something you often do. I not positive but I think between my grand parents and parents they had their clothes and perhaps 500 total if that and I am just using my memory and unfortunately they are no around to tell me the exact amount but that is what I recall them saying to others.

And sorry to burst your bubble but no one had any clout or claimed religious persecution!. They applied got accepted End of story.




[edit on 6/24/2007 by shots]

No, you still totally misunderstand!

The point is that you are stating the case from the view that everyone outside the US wants to live in the US. This is simply NOT TRUE! You are basing your argument on a false premise.

Yes, some people, because of their circumstances, do want to - as they see it as being 'better' for them, but that is not the total situation.

Therefore, mechanisms have to exist for the situation where the US wants/needs to 'import', rather than the situation of preserving the lifestyle from an invasion of those less fortunate.

That a particular organisation is so stupid as to phrase their advertising as this one did, or alternatively that they are so greedy as to offer those services to companies whose actions would ultimately damage that lifestyle, is - well, what - greed overwhelming common sense? Perhaps outright stupidity?

That was not an attack - what do you think the correct word for someone who obviously believes that to recruit someone from overseas would automatically deprive an American of equal qualification and motivation for the job - to hold that view you MUST automatically believe that such American exists - there is no other word for that but 'arrogance'.

I meant it with no malice - a person who unlawfully and deliberately kills another cannot be described any other way but as a 'murderer' - the word may be described as insulting or offensive, but, simply, that is the exactly correct word - anything else would be a euphemism for the same thing, and frankly, I find euphemisms much more insulting than calling a spade a spade.

jsobecky...
My daughter is not a victim here - since she doesn't particularly want to live in the US, it is the university and the US that are the victims of your own isolationism and arrogance (as a nation). But perhaps you can't see that.

I'm sure you were attempting to be complimentary, but compliments, in this particular situation are condescending while your argument is based on the attitude that 'the best' already exists in America - or can you not see that.

And there I will leave the discussion so that you can continue with it unfettered by the truth.

The Winged Wombat

Forgive me if I appear abrasive. Suffice to say that one of my early military officer assessments said 'Does not suffer fools lightly'. In the section for the officer's comments on the assessment I wrote 'Almost correct - delete word 'lightly''. I see no reason to change, everything else is BS.


[edit on 25/6/07 by The Winged Wombat]

Originally posted by jsobecky
There was no need for you to be so acerbic in your response. Nowhere did I imply the things you accused me of.

You need to chill out and work on your reading comprehension.

Neither did I and I want to make that clear. Perhaps there is a difference between the queens English and American English but I did not see where either of us did what we were accused of especially jsobecky, he paid her a complement, yet you took it as a dig or slap down which was certainly a misunderstanding. on your part.

Originally posted by shots

Boy are you way off base, and you are assuming again something you often do. I not positive but I think between my grand parents and parents they had their clothes and perhaps 500 total if that and I am just using my memory and unfortunately they are no around to tell me the exact amount but that is what I recall them saying to others.

And sorry to burst your bubble but no one had any clout or claimed religious persecution!. They applied got accepted End of story.

So they just came here with 500 bucks...wow they were pretty poor. Be glad at the time immigration was much easier. You might just very well have been posting from a 3rd world crap hole right now if you were even able to afford a computer that is. Im surprised you never had any family or friends of the family that may have came here illegally in the past before they became citizens. I know I have had them in the past. You may have but didn't even know it. People dont generally talk about those kind of things.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN

So they just came here with 500 bucks...wow they were pretty poor.

Actually you have to put that into a time context.... when I bought my first car, I could have bought it three times over with 500 bucks! (Less than 8 years old, low mileage, excellent condition, new tyres, heater AND radio - 1964)

It depends on just when they emigrated, 500 bucks could have been a considerable sum of money at the time, relative to weekly earnings.

The Winged Wombat

[edit on 25/6/07 by The Winged Wombat]

Originally posted by The Winged Wombat

Actually you have to put that into a time context.... when I bought my first car, I could have bought it three times over with 500 bucks! (Less than 8 years old, low mileage, excellent condition, new tyres, heater AND radio - 1964)

It depends on just when they emigrated, 500 bucks could have been a considerable sum of money at the time, relative to weekly earnings.

The Winged Wombat

Yes you are right. I was assuming late 50's early 60's. If it was like the 30's-40's it was a lot of money.

So what is the point of doing this? Not hire Americans and hire foreigners instead?

One old American person told me that long time ago United States opened boarders for foreign workers in purpose to break the labor unions.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN

Im surprised you never had any family or friends of the family that may have came here illegally in the past before they became citizens. I know I have had them in the past.

Well the above is very telling and explains why you always tend to support illgals. Again sorry to burst your bubble but no illegals from or within my family or distant relatives hat I know of.

And what is so bad about only having 500 dollars?.They arrived in the late 20'0s; back then that was considered alot of money. As you can see once again you assummed incorrectly.


[edit on 6/25/2007 by shots]

Originally posted by Mikee
So what is the point of doing this? Not hire Americans and hire foreigners instead?

Yes apparently that apparently is their goal.

One old American person told me that long time ago United States opened boarders for foreign workers in purpose to break the labor unions.

Huh? Labor Unions were built by immigrants they were the ones that wanted them the most. Sounds like he had a few too many the day he said that.

If I am right what he said was companies hired workers/immigrants to bust the unions by crossing the picket lines and working. Many were good at that when the original already unionized workers would not come around.


[edit on 6/25/2007 by shots]

Originally posted by shots
Labor Unions were built by immigrants they were the ones that wanted them the most...
If I am right what he said was companies hired workers/immigrants to bust the unions by crossing the picket lines and working. Many were good at that when the original already unionized workers would not come around.
[edit on 6/25/2007 by shots]

I would agree with this. Also, depending on how old Mikee is, I could be an ancient American .
So, as an old American, I can remember the huge inflation of the late 70's. Among several remedies to combat inflation, there are having a large pool of unemployed workers (lay off workers, for ex.) and lowering wages (either w/wo employee agreement--at least with union agreement there is less employer fear of employee anger--or by hiring workers willing to work for less wages).

What Ronald Reagan neglected to tell Americans about "mak(ing) America great again" was how this would come about. To get rid of the ogre of inflation, there was widespread unemployment and, despite the Simpson-Mazzoli Bill, companies allowed/brought in illegal immigrants.

Note: illegal immigrants could also be fearful of losing jobs if they complained about working conditions--meat packing industry, for ex. Unions at first opposed illegal immigrants, but then realized that these workers were being exploited and needed to unionize.

The American worker, with its falling wages, had to make these wages stretch more. Hence, the rise of WalMart with its cheap goods made in China (which, BTW, it takes oil (petrochemicals) to make plastic as we know it--another reason China needs oil?)
Americans could still afford to buy cars, but by stretching out payments longer (lower monthly payment) but also paying more interest (or leasing if they couldn't afford to ever own).
A house? We now have 50 year mortgages or interest only mortgages.


Many Americans since 1980 unwittingly made a pact with the devil when they were asked to vote on social issues when those they elected were concerned with economic issues not in their voters' interest.

Free-market, pro-business conservatives saw open immigration as providing a supply of low paid workers that would suppress wages, while cultural conservatives, with their nativist suspicion of all that is foreign, opposed expanding immigrant rights. For their part, many corporations supported new “guestworker” programs that would regulate immigration by permitting businesses to bring in workers for specific jobs.[ex/]
Source

Originally posted by desert
What Ronald Reagan neglected to tell Americans about "mak(ing) America great again" was how this would come about.

His name sends chills down my spine if it were not for him many of our unions might still be around and wages might be better. He killed the FAA union (PATCO) which started the end of unions as we knew them yet he claimed he ws pro labor. I do not think so.

You are spot on, Shots! The PATCO situation was an omen.
I heard Lou Dobbs today asking "where are the unions?", in regards to hiring non-Americans. Unions have suffered severely the past decades. Funny, the American worker has been lead to believe that "special interests" are all bad, lumping unions into the same boat as corporate special interest groups/lobbyists. This is sort of a moral irrelativism--that there are no nuances. My kid stabbed your kid with a knife, but, hey, your kid hit my kid with his fist, so they're both equally wrong. NO!

Another thing RR did was to remove the solar panels from the White House. Look where we are today. I will be reading the updated Thomas Friedman book, The World Is Flat, in the near future. Sometimes he is too much of a cheerleader for things I disagree with him on, but I have to cheer with him on having America being the leader in new energy technology. Go, Tom! America is in crisis now, but that means an opportunity to change. Energy research should be of prime importance now. Hey, Carl Sagan worked with the Kardashev scale to say that Earthlings could advance to Level 1 from Level 0 . Wouldn't that be nice

Question for young people? When is the last time you saw a section of a newspaper devoted to labor issues? There used to be a Labor Section. Nowadays it's all about Business. But there wouldn't be Business without Labor. They should go hand in hand, not fist to fist.

One last thing. The savings from lowering inflation seemed to have turned into bonuses for CEO's and no bonuses for the American worker. Hmmmm, the trickle down economics seemed to have gotten stuck at the tap...er the top.

Originally posted by zorgon
So do our kids have to learn Spanish now in order to get a job flipping burgers?

Welcome to Florida, zorgon.

My nephew makes less at his job than someone who also speaks Spanish.
And it's not like the pay is for being better qualified by being bilingual. He is fluent in French. It's for Spanish only.

The kicker is, it's not even a bonus for speaking Spanish. The original payscale that was discussed was for bilingual. It went down when it was learned he wasn't.