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posted by Justin Oldham
The Republicans won't push for honest law enforcement any time soon. They've proven that they're willing to do anything to get those illegal votes.
The movement you're talking about will have to come from the voters. We should expect this retrenchment and renewal to take 10-20 years.
Unfortunately, that militancy you alluded to will take its toll on both sides. I expect illegals and anti-illegal groups to spawn some of our most notorious homegrown terror groups.
All this [immigration debate] does is breed racial hatred. We are starting to see such even here in the Midwest. I cannot fathom what may go on in TX, AZ, CA and such. I do not think that the people have the restraint to prolong this encounter for much longer. It is truly a shame.
Perhaps, large scale actions from one group or another will bring about martial law and this is what the powers that be are trying to do? A large influx of illegals coupled with the oil situation and the housing collapse is going to make many people that have lost homes and jobs a powder keg. I see little hope for a peaceable solution to this situation. Please understand I cannot condone people being hurt that are only trying to improve their lot in life. But I think that is going to happen. reluctantpawn
I'll stand on what I've already said. 10-20 years in our future, there might be a real movement to tame the border, but its not likely as of the moment I type this. I do expect that we'll see increased gang activity. I myself am already aware of my local MS-13 chapter.
We won't get the reforms we want unless we can send a majority to Washington D.C. that will act on that mandate.
I can see how the future looks so totally dark and depressing . . I'm not through making my case for those reforms. Everything you see in this forum is bent in that direction. Things will have to get much worse before they get even a little bit better. If we want those reforms badly enough, we'll keep talking about them, and we'll keep searching for the way to resolution.
In an effort to stay on topic, I'd point out that the illegal issue demonstrates that our leaders don't have our best interests in mind. Not when they allow the tools of proper law enforcement to sit and rust.
Border security is the obligation of any sovereign State. It may seem philosophically 'wise' to leave borders open in the hopes that some of Your prosperity will rub off on Them.
Illegal immigration is not solely responsible for our political, social, military and economy declines. It is, however, a factor that contributes to [impact] each of these things. If we don't tackle the issue of illegal immigration, it will continued to play its role in each of these declines I've mentioned.
The simple truth is this. As a nation gets weaker, it helps fewer people. Its government becomes less capable and its infrastructure eventually loses its capability to expand to meet increasing social needs. An examination of the situations in the border States demonstrates that illegal is illegal, and illegal impacts those States on political, economic, and social levels which they can no longer cope with. It's only a matter of time until they become overrun. Their governments, infrastructures, and economies will collapse due to unmanageable burdens.
This isn't all about slack law enforcement. It's about incompetent management.
We could put enough people on our borders with the appropriate technology to make walls unnecessary. On a personal level, we are called on to be honest and industrious, while on the national level we tolerate governmental practices that would put any one of us in the poor house if we tried to live that way.
posted by reluctantpawn
Sir;
1) I whole heartedly agree that a wall will not keep the people out. Please read my post in it's entirety. I also agree that at one point only the "better quality" immigrants came across the border. These are generally good people that work hard for very little but more than they would make in their own country. But to claim that they have impacted us only minimally is ludicrous.
2) I think that one only ask local citizens and even read the MSM to understand that they are about to bankrupt the local economies. My suggestion was to enforce current laws and create new ones to make it unfeasible for them to remain in the U.S.
3) Certainly we need to address the gang issues not only the immigrant gangs. However we are seeing organization and increased military tactics from these same gangs that is unrivaled from local gangs.
4) We already have some of their best workers. There are also many good workers from other countries that cannot get in. Could they not do these jobs legally. yes our government is partly to blame but corporatism is in my opinion mostly to blame. respectfully
reluctantpawn
I myself make only around $**k a year and must support a family of five. Unfortunately my wife also must work and that brings our income up to $**k. We are not the R&F. We also agree that social issues are at play in contributing to the underclass.
However there I must disagree with you. We can provide programs and education to no end and most of this underclass will not attempt to rise out of the poverty that they are in.
For any capitalist economy to work there must be an underclass.
I just do not believe and am even offended that illegal immigrants are granted privileges that I am not. i.e. in state tuition, free health care free education, drivers license, no income tax, etc. This becomes a burden to the working families whose taxes pay for these programs.
By the way I do truly respect a civil discourse even from differing points of view. respectfully reluctantpawn