Illegals light border fires to sidetrack U.S. agents

wait i have a better headline


and it's not government propaganda

"world elite burn and demolish three building to sidetrack the american people"

sorry i just thought thatg was neccessary

Originally posted by Vekar
...however if we bring in technology that allows for recycling, producing their own food on a managable level, and all around help them get jobs... We will be helping them AND helping the USA at the same time.

Well Vekar, even though there's very little that you've posted (& I've so far seen) that I can agree with (I'd guesstimate approximately 80%-85% ), I'd have to say that this quote of yours I've just reprinted hits the core-root of something to which I do agree.
First though, I'm going to cover a few points, in order to lead up to why I do agree.

First, what is the real cause of most of the problems that human society faces? Secret Societies bent on ruling the world, in a nutshell...These small groups of very secretive manipulators have been the bane of social evolution throughout the entire history of mankind, by exploiting human nature in order to feed their own greed for wealth & control. Yes, that is at least a part of human nature to begin with.

However, what is the one thing most common among such secret societies? They indoctrinate each member to believe that he is somehow "superior" to the rest of humanity & that the group is on a quest for (in Adam Weishaupt's own words, for example) the "enoblement of mankind." In short, the group indoctrinates each member in the belief that he will become "enlightened" by working with the group & will see how this enlightenment places him above the rest of humanity...I've never heard more BS of propaganda than such an fallable concept.

To explain more clearly, to be truly enlightened & to "enoble humanity," these secret societies would become truly enlightened if they sought to advance humanity as a whole, rather than exploit humanity for their own selfesh benefit. Humanity needs to advance & evolve socially before we could ever achieve a "one world humanity" & live peacefully with each other. Yet, these manipulative secret societies exploit human nature & keep everyone else ignorant of their own potential...And amass great wealth & power along the way. Does this attitude sound like "enlightenment" to anyone here at ATS? To me it sounds more like greedily seeking positions of "authority" in order to push some of the worst aspect of human nature on a worldwide scale.

Getting back to the reason why I chose that particular quote from Vekar...He has shown a willingness to share enlightenment rather than hoard it for himself, very unlike the very secret societies that claim to be "enlightened." By being willing to share enlightenment, his quote indicates that he's one who iseither already enlightened or at least on the right path to it...The wrong path is that which these conspiratorial kind of secret socieites travel. I'm sure that there's many ATS members who have heard of some of those groups...Skull & Bones, Bilderburgs, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

I should also point out at this time that there were quite a few points in Vekar's post that I don't agree with, simply because his methods would be a bit too harsh coming from someone who is truly enlightened...IMO, it will be much harder to advance human civilization if we cannot set an example by remaining "civilized" while solving problems. I'll at least give Vekar an "A" for effort though...

Originally posted by Vekar
...however if we bring in technology that allows for recycling, producing their own food on a managable level, and all around help them get jobs... We will be helping them AND helping the USA at the same time.

Well Vekar, even though there's very little that you post that I can agree with (I'd guesstimate approximately 80%-85% ), I'd have to say that this quote I just used hits the core-root of something to which I do agree.
First though, I'm going to cover a few points, in order to lead up to why I do agree.

First, what is the real cause of most of the problems that human society faces? Secret Societies bent on ruling the world, in a nutshell...These small groups of very secretive manipulators have been the bane of social evolution throughout the entire history of mankind, by exploiting human nature in order to feed their own greed for wealth & control. Yes, that is at least a part of human nature to begin with.

However, what is the one thing most common among such secret societies? The indoctrinate & teach each member that he is somehow "superior" to the rest of humanity & that the group is on a quest for (in Adam Weishaupt's own words, for example) the "enoblement of mankind." In short, the group indoctrinates each member in the belief that he will become "enlightened" by working with the group & will see how this enlightenment places him above the rest of humanity...I've never heard more BS of propaganda than such an fallable concept.

To explain more clearly, to be truly enlightened & to "enoble humanity," these secret societies would become truly enlightened if they sought to advance humanity as a whole, rather than exploit humanity for their own selfesh benefit. Humanity needs to advance & evolve socially before we could ever achieve a "one world humanity" & live peacefully with each other. Yet, these manipulative secret societies exploit human nature & keep everyone else ignorant of their own potential...And amass great wealth & power along the way. Does this attitude sound like "enlightenment" to anyone here at ATS? To me, it sounds closer to the truth that such groups seek to gain the "authority" for pushing the most negative aspects of human nature on a worldwide scale!

Getting back to the reason why I chose that particular quote from Vekar...He has shown a willingness to share enlightenment rather than hoard it for himself, very unlike the very secret societies that claim to be "enlightened." By being willing to share enlightenment, his quote indicates that he's one who is either already enlightened or at least on the right path to it...The wrong path is that which these conspiratorial kind of secret societes travel. I'm sure that there's many ATS members who have heard of some of those groups...Skull & Bones, Bilderburgs, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

Originally posted by Vekar
#1: "baby buster" illega-Illegal alien woman comes in ready to pop, pops in a hospital and demands that child be American. Access denied.

True! As I pointed out in my first post on page 1 of this thread, the "anchor baby policy" is a Federal Offense against the 14th Amendment. However, this is merely a single symptom of a much deeper fault in the US Government--Let's take a look at three of the key points in the Constitution:

Article 2, Section 1 (last clause):
Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

And...

Article 6 (last clause):
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Ahhhh...The meat of the matter! By taking the Oath (or Affirmation), this legally binds all of the government to obey the Constitution in all ways! In effect, the Constitution is the Peoples' contract of employment for the Government!
And the Constitution even provides the Employers of the Government (The People) with methods to enforce obedience to the very same Constitution...As written in the Declaration of Independance,

...that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government...

This is emphasized again in the Bill of Rights, to provide The People with the means of enforcement! In this particular case, Amendment 1 provides the peaceful means & Amendment 2 provides forceful means when Amendment 1 is compromised by the Government.
Well, as far as this whole illegal immigrant problem is realted, let's look at the Constitution again:

Article 2, Section 3 (last clause):
...he (the President) shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed...

Gee, doesn't President Bush's outright refusal to enforce the current Immigration Laws seem a bit like a Breech of Oath? Not only that, but trying to push for Immigration Reform, he's even seeking to change the Laws when it is not a part of his duty to the Nation! How can the changing of laws be justified if the current laws are not being enforced? And in case nobody has noticed, any offense against laws of the Immigration & Naturalization Service is a Federal Crime because it happens to be a Federal Agency!
------------------
Continued Below...

Concluded from Above
------------------------------------------
I should also point out at this time that there were quite a few points in Vekar's post that I don't agree with, simply because his methods would be a bit too harsh coming from someone who is truly enlightened...IMO, it will be much harder to advance human civilization if we cannot set an example by remaining "civilized" while solving problems. I'll at least give Vekar an "A" for effort though...

And yet, Vekar did a lot of thinking to come up with some good solutions...At least on a tactical level; But unless we reach at the root of the problem, such tactics may be useful to buy time for The People to also tackle the strategic level. Hopefully, I've succeeded in describing some of the strategic level for the "new battle for (re)gaining our Independance."

After all, the Constitution provides us with all of the tools & weapons we'll need, as long as we refuse to sit back silently as the corrupted Government takes them all away from us. A good start would probably be to have the Patriot Act (& all other related Breeches of Constitution) repealed. It's very existence is Treason against the USA!


[edit on 23-6-2007 by MidnightDStroyer]

MSD: if you read the bottom of my very last post you would realize why you probably found the whole thing sketchy: the last time I tried to explain this in words to people it took over 4 hours and was almost midnight by the time I got through subject #3 on how to solve this problem.

You will find out quickly I am a very harsh person when dealing with people like drug runners and smugglers, smugglers being the ones who bring the following: illegal arms, munitions, other substances that are highly illegal and ALSO smugglers bring through sex slaves remember. I had the liberty of watching a movie about how insane the boarder is and what happened to one man who lived right on it and near a road the drug runners use. He has been shot at, injured and nearly killed many times, the feds REFUSED and I mean REFUSED to try and stop the drug runners from using the road so the man took his own initiative. He settup blockades all over the place, and started carrying a long range "hunting" rifle. The drug runners burnt down the blockades, removed them, and then proceeded to fill his home with bullets which he showed in the movie. The feds still refused to help him. He brought out the sheriff after one firefight, found a slew of AK-47 rounds all over the hillside where he was taking fire from, feds backed off again. So what happened at the end of the day? A few month after the filming and printing of the movie he was arrested and sent to jail for having 400 lb's of marajuana in his home! 400 lb's! Good gods! We all know it was a settup! He helped report the truth about the boarder and the feds promptly put him in the slammer!

Call my methods harsh if you want, but that is why I have them, because of the above. Also, I already know the Mexican government is not going to help because they are a part of this whole NWO/Elite charade, however I want to push the agenda I mentioned to prove that point. How do I know they are a part of it? Well in the same movie (Walking the Line/Boarder I do believe, not the holywood movie but a small private one...) they went over the different minuteman projects going on. Some were nutjobs like you can not believe, willing to fire on ANYONE who they saw, armed or not. They were armed with modern equipment and thought themselves superior to others, this was Ranch Rescue. Bunch of nutjob rascists. Then there was another group they also interviewed, they were walking around without guns and simply stopping people before turning them over to the BP folks. Non-violent as all getout.
Now why did I mention the minuteman groups? They are a threat on the whole, not all of them but some of them, not just to Mexicans lives, but to Americans. They are a loose cannon running around with heavy weapons and deep hate against all non-americans. We HAVE to do something at the boarder to stop the drug runners and smugglers before this gets out of hand, the illegals just come as desert at the end of the day. I want to see the nutjobs like Ranch Rescue put out of business for good, I do not mind the little guy groups who run around with binoculars and cigars in their mouths (yes they are kind of funny in how they act) who have no intention of shooting or harming anyone. If we allow rascist groups to use the boarder to rally this nation is going to have a resurgance in the KKK, Neo-Nazis and Skinheads, that is the LAST thing we need right now with the NWO/Elites looming overhead.

Not sure what you did not like or what you considered harsh about what I said earlier, a few things I CAN figure someone might consider harsh. However if you want to know how a MODERN pit would work, no your not going to freefall some 20ft. down. A modern one is ANGLED, slightly... It has enough of an angle not to kill you, but enough so you cant get back out again. If you REALLY want to make one that will hurt the drug runners make it a ROMAN pit. Let me explain:

Roman Pits were known for being neigh impossible to cross unless you had hoards of bodies to walk overtop of or had the days needed to fill them in and cover up their traps. Building on the pit part they would look like this:

------\__/-\__/-^^ Tower where the two ^^ are. Making a modern equivalent we will be making a VERY steep entrance lets say a 70 degree down angle so they can fall and roll but not hurt themselves but also not a 90 degree so they just fall and die. Now lets say you get past that, now you face the middle pit, this is a steep 90 degree straight up WALL. Ok, you got over that, problem: 6ft then you fall again, 90 degree straight down. Ok... Well the last side on the side of the USA now has another 70 degree up angle (/) you have to get over. By the time you try this you will either be exhausted from trying to get through the desert and now only have to exert yourself more, or your going to be one serious bad (Bleep) who is out to kill someone. This system is made to hamper the drug runners and smugglers as much as possible, if they try and fill it in, it will obviously take DAYS to accomplish and major manpower which will be noticed by the BP.

Now this system will not be needed if we solve the problem of economies, if we solve the problem of economies and work on getting rid of the NWO/Elites in process we can address the corruption along the way. Thus making it more viable to protect the boarder from drug runners and smugglers by using both sides forces and materials. At the current point in time neither side will help this problem so I made a suggestion to fix BOTH problems all in one. If you want to solve even more though for ILLEGALS alone, work on the law system and the politics of the nation. In short get rid of the hate groups, all of them, and work on getting rid of political corruption.


Just so you all know, I am taking into consideration short term and long term effects/implications and trying to wrap it all into one. Solving something on the short term may buy some time but unless you have a long term goal it is only going to come back in your face.

Anyway, there is some more elaboration even though I doubt you wanted it.

Originally posted by Vekar
You will find out quickly I am a very harsh person when dealing with people like drug runners and smugglers...

Don't need to quote any more than that to say that you've explained your point & I understand it much better than before. I still may not entirely agree with your level of harshness, but I do understand it.

I understand fully enough to perhaps suggest that, if you're still disturbed with the illegals burning down trees, then perhaps a call to The Green Knights (a known, violent eco-extremist group) may in order...

Originally posted by Vekar
Solving something on the short term may buy some time but unless you have a long term goal it is only going to come back in your face.

Most of the ideas that I referred to as "strategic" in my posting is what you're describing as "long term goals." Since the "strategic" level would involve removing the "head of the hydra," so to speak, then the collaborators for the NAU would no longer be in the US Government to create such problems in the first place.

And, as an afterthought, I'm not sure how much of my previous posting wound up duplicating a lot of text...But I apologize for not getting it edited before the Edit Button disappeared.

[edit on 24-6-2007 by MidnightDStroyer]

On the boarder we have two kinds of trees, actually they are all over my state AND Arizona, my state is New Mexico in case your wondering... They are a hybrid made from foreign trees during the dust bowl problem. The idea of the hybrids was that they would grow SO FAST (they are hybrid) that they would dominate the landscape in a few years, and they did. Just one problem: they suck tremendous amounts of water and are not good for anything other than firewood, they are also highly suseptible to disease and plauge.
Tree #2 is the natural kind: pine. There are VERY few natural trees in my state because the hybrids choke them out. Also the sage brush is not natural, the dominant species came from the Russia Taiga. I got that from I guy I worked with who is/was a biology teacher.

I would suspect from what I saw growing along the boarder is not pine but the hybrids, and good riddance to them, they suck about 100 gallons of water per day per tree, and they are only 6-8ft. tall.

I could care less if they are burning hybrids trees that suck up all my states water and other states water which is badly needed for human use. The only catch is when the trees explode into flame and spread into a giant forest fire. But here is the fun part: if any start, the illegals are destroying their own cover, so the more trees they burn the less cover they have.

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
Mr. Bush, it is far past time for you to carry out your Oath-bound duty to the Constitution & now "faithfully execute the laws of the land." It is not your job to change the laws or change the land itself, but to maintain the Rule of Law under Constitutional writ!

HAH fat chance. This guy Bush is such a joke it's unfathomable, if he had the chance he would use the constitution as toilet paper. The only reason his whitehouse is pushing so hard for this amnesty bill is because of the SPP thats buried into the legislation making it into law. IMO this should be held above all else debate wise considering US tax dollars pour into mexican infrastructure and operations. It will be used to ' fight the war on drugs and terrorism' among other things, not to mention the first step towards a NAU. The SPP is a threat to our national sovereignty and it's not even being debated, if this bill passes the SPP is officially law. Building a border fence and securing the border would undermine the plans for a NAU and bush et al wont let that happen. I wouldn't be suprised if Bush veto'd a clean Immigration bill.

the fires and the massive amounts of waste these people leave behind in our deserts should have the liberals in congress and the senate up in arms. I hope actions like these finally wake up liberal constituents to the reality that liberal politicians don't care about the enviroment they just want control through taxation and regulation.


[edit on 25-6-2007 by ape]

Originally posted by Vekar
On the boarder we have two kinds of trees, actually they are all over my state AND Arizona, my state is New Mexico in case your wondering... They are a hybrid made from foreign trees during the dust bowl problem. The idea of the hybrids was that they would grow SO FAST (they are hybrid) that they would dominate the landscape in a few years, and they did. Just one problem: they suck tremendous amounts of water and are not good for anything other than firewood, they are also highly suseptible to disease and plauge.

Hmmm...Reminds me when the English colonists in Australia first introduced the Prickley Pear plant. It multiplied faster than rabbits & dominated the countryside. From what I recall, ecological scientists introduced a certain species of worm that eats the Prickley Pear to reduce the plant population...Guess what? It worked; Within a mere few years the Prickley Pear was well on the way back to reasonably sound poulation levels.
It seems to me that this is similar to your hybrid-tree problem...But I'm quite sure that there are better, more reasonably sound ecologically friendly methods of reducing that tree population that doesn't involve simply burning them all down!

Originally posted by ape
The only reason his whitehouse is pushing so hard for this amnesty bill is because of the SPP thats buried into the legislation making it into law. IMO this should be held above all else debate wise considering US tax dollars pour into mexican infrastructure and operations. It will be used to ' fight the war on drugs and terrorism' among other things, not to mention the first step towards a NAU. The SPP is a threat to our national sovereignty and it's not even being debated, if this bill passes the SPP is officially law.

Actually, it's back in Congress (quite possibly right now) & Bush hopes to get it at least partially passed clause by clause: If you're interested in actually writing or calling your Reps & Senators about it, try going to Numbers USA before it's too late.
No, it's not an activist organization: It's a website that allows you to organize who sits in your representatives' chairs & displays their voting records on the whole issue of Immigration Reform...And supplies a method to fax your letters to them, all for free!

Bush can put 2 border guards to jail for shooting a dangerous drug trafficker in the ass, but he cant put the drug trafficker in jail....
bush = fail
war on drugs = fail
U.S. = leading toward failure
Life as we know it = soon to end

we need to put armed US troops on the border and order them to shoot to kill. its the only way things will stop. its crazy. our guards are being ambushed and hurt and no one will do a dam thing about it.

Well, I'm pissed, so here's my solution.

End Iraq and Afganistan, they don't want us there anyways.

Now with hundreds of billions of dollars freed up build a fence. But... Not just any fence! Use the US Troops to round up illegals and make them build it with promise of citizenship as a reward. Once complete fire bomb the border for a good 30-50 miles into Mexico, not American land, to rid the Mexican Border Towns.

Second, nuke Mexico City to wipe out the government of Mexico that supports and helps the illegal crossing.

Third, check any mail being sent to Mexico, if it isn't in English/includes money, take it and use it to help pay off the National Debt or something.

Fourth, remove any and all Spanish signs and warning labels and "Press 1 for English, press 2 for Spanish" from the Country.

Fifth, if any illegals riot over the nuking of Mexico City, kill them. They are invading here illegally, if it was France and Germany it would start WWIII but no one seems to care that its USA/Mexico.

ANy and all illegals in our jails? Execute them. Again invaded our country illegally.

If any Mexican military or civillians move to attack the country from Mexico bomb/nuke them.

Extreme you say? I'd say its not enough. 12 million, that's 12million enemy soldiers in America. That's drug dealers, rapist, thieves, killers, in our country.