Down with the new "Patriot Act" !

Have any of you heard of the new "Patriot Act" ? I was listening to the radio a couple o' nights ago on the short wave 1 band and the announcer who was talking about it was aparently "Live from Austin, Texas" so it's not like he was from Australia or UK or Canada and was talking about laws in a different country or something because he was in Austin, Texas, U.S.A., not Sydney, Australia. Anyway, according to him, The new
"Patriot Act", signed by none other than President Bush himself, completely violates the 4th Ammendment to the Constitution of the United States of America. Now, surveillance is a LEGAL STEP THE GOVERNMENT CAN TAKE TO EAVESDROP ON ANY U.S. CITIZEN IT WISHES by means of radar that can easily penetrate any walls that are not lead-lined, by tapping into phone lines and listening through home and mobile phones (and get this: the guy on the radio said they can do this even when you phone is turned off, but I am not sure if this applies to mobile phones (cell phones). ).
Also, I was informed by a friend that since 2 years ago, the government or CIA or FBI or NSA or whatever has a few inside agents in most of the companies that build homes and buildings in the US that put some kind of device in one of the walls of every new house or building that is built so they can have a way of knowing if the occupant of that structure is holding any hostages or planning to commit a murder in the case of a kidnapping or felony or something, but I am not sure whether or not this is true. (Whew, that was a hell of a long sentance). Please do not critisize me (i.e. say I'm an idiot and that could never happen) as I am only stating what I heard, and not saying that I am absolutely positively sure that this is accurate. Anyway, the ATS motto is, after all, DENY IGNORANCE.

Mod Edit: Removed Profanity From Thread Title.

[edit on 29/12/2005 by Mirthful Me]

First of all I agree that the Patriot Act Part II ain't of any use then abusing rights. If the first part sucked you don't produce a 2nd one but this movie-saying seems not to be applied for laws.

I can understand when you are afraid of everything and everywhere being bugged but you can relief yourself easily. Just think how much buildungs aren't new since many many years, in addition to this think of the massive data amount of just 10% being watched on. Now imagine this is done by 10.000 people, that's probably a number where several mowls would go to the press if it becomes too hard.
(I am not specialist but a complete security and surveillance system for a house or even skyscraper would need massive planning, so doubtly they can "just" do it).

Of course, the intelligences can do a lot of stuff but they can't control you all. Fear is the first weapon they use - exactly as terrorism.(isn't that funny? It is the primary weapon of both).

Just think of all the hazzle about flights being delayed. They tell you a bit that they have specific flight numbers, cities or names. Now what happened? Absolutley nothing, they found nothing at all. No terrorist.
What are they actually doing? They take 15 of 200 people on a plain to interview them, kinda big selection isn't it?
The way they check tells all of us that they are aware of nothing more than that an attack is planned and pannically check everything "suspicious".

US intelligences you failed as always.
Don't fear them. PatriotActII gives them more rights but morons stay morons.

Did you also know that dubya signed it on the sly right after Sadaam was captured? I also hear it's very uncommon for a president to sign a bill on a Saturday.

This just goes to show you how #ed up the US is these days. It's only a matter of time until it turns into a world not that much different from the book 1984, but if that happens I'm getting the hell out of here.

Originally posted by shoo

(I am not specialist but a complete security and surveillance system for a house or even skyscraper would need massive planning, so doubtly they can "just" do it).

Trust me, if they want to put a surveillance system in your house, they're gonna do it. They would probably just put in a listening device in most of the rooms of the house while the house is still under construction so that they don't have to tear apart the walls or anything.

Yes, Blitersety, they could if they wanted to, but you seem to be missing the point of what he said before that. Even if they did put them in the walls, they still need someone to monitor the bug. And then what when the battery or whatever dies? It's useless. Sure they could always go into your house and replace the battery, or just install a new bug. They might be good, but they're not THAT good.

ok,....i think the point which Blitersety is making and has been missed is that the gov't or 'they' have made the survailance legal. that is the point..it is all legal now..doesn't matter what is happening..it is legal..or can be made to seem legal..
a battery???? why use a battey when it can be hardwired into the structure with no noticable jump in power usage..just because u THINK u are a good law abiding citizen does not meean that 'they' think u are....u may just get caught up in the sweep....detained for a couple days, your background checked, people u know questioned (are all those people good law abiding citizens like u think u are?)
the freedoms that we enjoy in america are slowly being erased..the U.S is not russia, iraq or GERMANY (shoo)...we are america because of the freedoms we have and have been paid for by blood. why should we just let the u.s. become another country?? unfourtunatly most u.s. citizens are igornorant and probably just don't want to be bothered with details that don't seem to affect them. the details will affect your kids or your grand kids..and they will look back and say 'what a bunch of lossers for not doing something about it when it was just starting to start"

Originally posted by shoo
First of all I agree that the Patriot Act Part II ain't of any use then abusing rights. If the first part sucked you don't produce a 2nd one but this movie-saying seems not to be applied for laws.

I'm pretty sure the government's thinking is somewhere along the lines of this: If the first law didn't work, pass another. If it did work, pass another anyway.

I just hope to God that eventually most of the Patriot Act will get shot down by the Supreme Court.

Originally posted by ConspiracyTheory

I just hope to God that eventually most of the Patriot Act will get shot down by the Supreme Court.

Good luck with that. The only people pitching a fit are a bunch of US cities local governments, with no changes going on at the federal level. I also hope that the PATRIOT Act gets shot down, but I think it's pretty unlikely.

Originally posted by ConspiracyTheory
I just hope to God that eventually most of the Patriot Act will get shot down by the Supreme Court.

Take a look who's serving in Supreme Court and who put them in.

@Blitersety
If I am a possible terrorist - okay the probably would bug my home? BUt they forsee and plan for a long time like I need for buildung my home and settle down? If somebody of us is a target I would agree they would try to bug us but as average citizen there is no chance they mass plant listeners in every house that's new.
I repeat: just think of the massive data amount coming up.

the patriot act is evil very very evil

Originally posted by shoo
@Blitersety
I repeat: just think of the massive data amount coming up.

I REPEAT: My friend was the one who told me this and the way I interpret it is this: They may not neccessarily need to be listening in on civilians 24/7 because yes, that would be a helluva lot of data to asess, BUT, they wouldn't listen to people all the time, they would only listen in on a person like me if there had been a kidnapping or murder and I was a possible suspect. Now THAT would be a lot less data to look at, don't you agree?

Don't terrorists try to keep a rather low profile and like not do things to draw attention to themselves? You don't know they're terrorists until they're ready to let you know.

Im going to have to agree with the patriot act bashing. It is a clear infringement on the rights of American Citizens. I know that terrorism is a very real threat. I also know that things are necessary to reduce that threat. The question is, at what point does it go too far? Truth be told, any president in office would have had no choice but to push a bill such as this one. Serious problems require serious actions, but misuse of this law will be one day very prevelant as it has already started.

The president needs to take a stand now, and so do the people of this country. These types of problems may prove to be the gateway that the worst fears of some will use to enter American society. Change the law. Make it refer to terrorism only. Make the misuse of the law punishable by severe penalties. Make the misuse of any law that infringes on the rights of the people punishable by severe penalties.

The last president, and the current president, have been clear indications of the future of this country and constitution.

For the record, I am a conservative. I will vote for George Bush in the next election.

Originally posted by ConspiracyTheory
I just hope to God that eventually most of the Patriot Act will get shot down by the Supreme Court.

I highly doubt it, just recently they rejected an appeal made by the Center for National Security Studies. The case was that the government was rounding up innocent Arabs and Muslims trying to find terrorists. Denying them fair trials and holding them in secret "detentions"

Rest of the story here:
www.cnn.com...

Dubya is a damn dictator... he is trying to control out every move...listening to us talk, our emails, I mean...when is this crap going to stop!!!!?

Originally posted by GovConpiracy
Dubya is a damn dictator... he is trying to control out every move...listening to us talk, our emails, I mean...when is this crap going to stop!!!!?

First step, Go to the closest dictionary and look up Dictator.

Second step, look through the constitution.


Note the way that the constitution prohibits dictators from establishing themselves in this land. With that realization, you must be smart enough to understand that no one man can be a dictator in this country. The only thing that could be similar is a group of men over the long term. This would include your pal slick willy. It would include any of them. Both democrat and republican. So when you select an individual party and single it out on this issue, then you are indicating that you dont have a full grasp on reality.

These issues come from both sides of the playing field. Until people are strong enough to think for themselves, and not regurgitate nonsense they hear from others, then the issues will continue.

Originally posted by Blitersety
BUT, they wouldn't listen to people all the time, they would only listen in on a person like me if there had been a kidnapping or murder and I was a possible suspect. Now THAT would be a lot less data to look at, don't you agree?

Calm down - Answer already given, we are the same opinion:

@Blitersety
If I am a possible terrorist - okay the probably would bug my home? BUt they forsee and plan for a long time like I need for buildung my home and settle down? If somebody of us is a target I would agree they would try to bug us

patriot act = terrisom winning. all us lemmings are following our "trustworthy" elected officials right off a cliff, to the preverbeal death of this country as we know it. when we let our freedoms go with little fight or even a struggle, we are playing into the hands of the terroists or the government officials trying to herd us into giving up our rights for the sake of safety from possibly fake terror threats

The Patriot Act is definately an attempt by the government to increase its power. I read that it was signed into law by Congress after 911 so quickly because our elected officials didn't want to look unpatriotic. It's a disgrace.