A brave man

David Cameron gave a very brace answer at the Conservative Friends of Israel conference. He was asked a tricky question about being a Zionist and he said;

If what you mean by Zionist, someone who believes that the Jews have a right to a homeland in Israel and a right to their country then yes I am a Zionist and I’m proud of the fact that Conservative politicians down the ages have played a huge role in helping to bring this about."

"There is something deep in our Party’s DNA that believes in Israel, the right of Israel to exist, the right of Israel to defend itself and that a deal should only happen if it means that Israel is really allowed to have peace within secure borders and real guarantees about its future.

ConservativeHome

A very,very brave man.

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[edit on 14-6-2007 by UK Wizard]

I'm not against the idea of 'Israel' as such but I just don't think it has worked out well for anybody (least of all Jewish people) placing it where they did.
(well I've no problem with a democratic Israel, a sectarian Israeli state strikes me as being utterly pointless & headed for eventual collapse)

I am fairly sure of this much tho, for as long as both sides keep acting as if they have all the justice on their side and are 100% in the right & the other 100% in the wrong this is never going to be settled equitably; the Israeli's history does not 'entitle' them to deny freedoms and rights to those they decide to treat that way.....

......and I really don't think it's in 'our' interests to sustain either side in that untennable and thoroughly dangerous situation.

Therefore I think Cameron is wrong.

There are too many sectarian/racist under-currents to the present Israeli 'position' IMO for anyone to just come out and supinely back the idea of a 'Jewish state'......

.....particularly when IMO this really comes down to a basically sentimental view based upon an ancient religious book - or would it be a case of tory guilt for the mess Balfour (ex tory PM and he of the famous - or is it infamous? - Balfour declaration of 1917) etc helped create back in the early 20th century?

Brown is praised by British Jews for being pro-Israel. It's well known that Gordon is a keen support of the Jewish State.

Cameron, IMHO, is just trying to be more pro-Israel than Gordon.

Originally posted by infinite
Cameron, IMHO, is just trying to be more pro-Israel than Gordon.

So he's not really being brave, then, he's playing politics?

It's pretty sad when this kind of thing happens, considering how volatile yet important the Middle East is. I don't see why Cameron has to 'take on' Brown over this. It gets him political brownie points, sure, but it does nothing for the issues that matter.

Originally posted by infinite
Brown is praised by British Jews for being pro-Israel. It's well known that Gordon is a keen support of the Jewish State.

- .....and I'd say the same things about Gordon Brown's uncritical support for the presnt Israeli state too.

Cameron, IMHO, is just trying to be more pro-Israel than Gordon.

- Which as Ste2652 says is hardly then a matter of being brave.

I just can't help but see a form of sectarianism & racism tangled up in this and I don't like it one bit.

there goes my support for them
time to support the liberal dems or the green party

Originally posted by bodrul
there goes my support for them
time to support the liberal dems or the green party

so

Israel doesn't have the right to exist then?

I'm also interested in what you mean by that, bodrul - is it on the basis of Cameron supporting Israel's right to exist, defend itself etc. or because you believe he's using it as a political issue to boost his electability?

Originally posted by Ste2652
I'm also interested in what you mean by that, bodrul - is it on the basis of Cameron supporting Israel's right to exist, defend itself etc. or because you believe he's using it as a political issue to boost his electability?

i should have made my self more clear.

i see him as another politician who will do anything to get anyones approval

i see him if he is elected not saying anything to Israel and their crimes aganst its neigbours.

israel has every right to exist but honestly i am not a fan of israel and the way its been acting over the years.

defend its self fine every country has that right
when he said israel has the right to defend its self i was thinking to my self does this mean when israel kills all those cuvilians and destroyes those homes, hes saying thats defence.

Edit: i am poping in and out of ATS doing my assignement so appoligies if i dont make sense

[edit on 14-6-2007 by bodrul]

Originally posted by bodrul
does this mean when israel kills all those cuvilians and destroyes those homes, hes saying thats defence.

but the PLO, Hamas, etc have been doing that for years too.

It's not just Israel.

The blame game in the Middle East is a very difficult one to play - it's fair to say there are major faults on both sides, and what we should do is focus on a path toward peace rather than another round of finger-pointing.

Sorry infinite i do not see what is brave about this statement, the majority of leaders in the west believe Israeil shoul exist, what would of been brave would of been to criticise the actions of Israeil for once. But bravery and David Cameron in the same sentence shows the way you think.

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by bodrul
does this mean when israel kills all those cuvilians and destroyes those homes, hes saying thats defence.

but the PLO, Hamas, etc have been doing that for years too.

It's not just Israel.

True but in terms of damage and deaths Israel trumps them every time

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
Sorry infinite i do not see what is brave about this statement, the majority of leaders in the west believe Israeil shoul exist, what would of been brave would of been to criticise the actions of Israeil for once. But bravery and David Cameron in the same sentence shows the way you think.

got to agree
you parise Israel then you are a brave man
if you critisize israel then you are anti semtic, racists or pure nuts

you've completely missed the point.

There is a difference saying you are pro-Israel, Cameron has declared himself a Zionist.

A Zionist, in Israel, is someone who believes that Israel should be expanded to its borders of the Old Testament. Thats why he is brave to link himself to Zionism.

And why does this make him brave?

Yes how does it make him brave?? If anything it makes him a total fricking nutter, who should not be allowed even a sniff at a chance of power in the next general election. Hopefully Brown will get rid of the memory of Blair and send that Conservative running for the hills