What have "LIBERALS" done for America?

Originally posted by Johnmike
I am not a political science student.

But okay, you've thoroughly derailed the thread.

Obviously.

How is that? You refuse to engage in the subject.

And its not long enuff to be able to derail. lol

Um you are one messed up dude.

Liberals have saved this country while Conservatives destroyed it. Booming 20's=Liberals, The second a Conservative gets in? Great Depression. Oh wait, a liberal gets in and Bam, THEE SUPER POWER OF THE WORLD!!!

Who was it that gave Hitler money? Republicans
Who was it that destroyed the economy and the budget made by Clinton? Republicans.
Who was it that let OBL attack us even after reports from CIA, Germany, Israel, told us OBL was going to use planes as missiles and crash them into the WTC. The FEMA report that year even had the WTC buildings in crosshairs on the cover but we had no idea...
Who got us in a war with a country that never attacked us unlike Germany?(They sank some of our ships)

Who was it that destroyed this country with Reganomics? That's right, Regan.

I like that, Clinton creates the greatest economy ever, he's an evil liberal. The republicans destroy the economy every time they get power and they're Gods.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
didn't liberals end slavery? it was the status quo, abolishing the status quo is liberalism.
and the republicans were the liberal party at the time.

what? republicans fought to end slavery.



[edit on 14-6-2007 by ape]

Er, wrong Republicans Ape. Democratic Republicans(Lincoln) become Democrats. Abe was another evil liberal. Big government, taxes, civil rights, the usual evil liberal stuff.

Originally posted by dgtempe
On the other hand, why have Republicans screwed up America to the point we are at now??????????

Mainly, those at the White House????

What kind of question or better yet , what kind of response do you want to hear???

This is one of those inflamatory threads. Sorry, but it is.

Ask and ye shall receive.

It's not inflamatory it's truth. The Military bills have always been voted down by the republican party in over the past 2 decades. That's a fact. It's reaganomics at work,period and no one mentions it to the faces of these pundits or brings the facts with them.

Those barstool diplomats have no clue that every single damn Military and Veteran bill that has come up, the Republican majority have voted it down in the past 20 years. And I SEE no REPUBLICAN on here who chides and gloats about being for the military with any FACT whatso ever about what the republicans have voted in favor of the military. You can't It's all a damn lie and smokescreen. Open the books on legislation and see it's all there who voted for what. And it wasn't the democratic party that WASN'T for the soldiers. All of the G.O.P "FAVS" voted against the military. Sorry it's all written for the record.

Democrats are like Dave from Carlitos Way. They have something to sell and he does mess up from time to time and he is a bit of a a-hole. But Democrats have stood up for the military and the record shows it. While Republican party just shouts louder at the mountain top saying they are for the military and the record doesn't show it at all.

That's inflamatory, that behaviour of being the cock of the walk for the military. When it's all just unadulterated crap.

And let's be honest,DGTempe. It's because of the republican infrastructure of the past 20 years that have screwed up this country, our foreign policy and now it's clearly out of control. And I don't hear any voices from the progressive side on the national news explaining to the PUBLIC what is going on. Keith olbermann says it but that's really it.
We don't have a progressive front or any critical thinkers.

Because it's a lock out on national media. And really the only place we can bring this up is on a community message board where the majority of the world will never hear it but on the t.v.? We can't do that. So everyone is given the same b .s. answers about Liberals being tax n spend. When the biggest spenders in the damn U.S. Government today are the Republicans!

That's not inflamatory that's just another dosage of truth. The Legislation record shows it,the statistics show it and the republicans should be taken to task because they are running the show. So why the hell should we tip toe around it? Day after day and night after night we hear this constant b.s about "Supporting the troops" and "BEING for America"
When the REPUBLICAN party have sold completely out to foreign corporations and America is no longer relevant when it comes to manufacturing because we have a telemarketer/bumpersticker mentality in this damn country.

And then these people have the audacity to say "Why are you so negative? "Criticism isn't negative. Everything is for sale and you need to change your philosophy,conservatives. Because your party isn't conservative anymore and immigration is the least of our damn problems.

AND for GODSAKES why don't they punish the employers of these companies who hire illegal immigrants instead of building a stupid fence that's going to do NOTHING.

But see, the ego is too fragile to have this discussion on national t.v. and media. My point is simple: There is no national dialogue in a open forum to bring up point by point who voted for what and who stood on the line for the american people.

Because people can't handle it,period.

Originally posted by Lightstorm
Er, wrong Republicans Ape. Democratic Republicans(Lincoln) become Democrats. Abe was another evil liberal. Big government, taxes, civil rights, the usual evil liberal stuff.

Nope. Lincoln was a Republican, not a Democratic-Republican. John Quincy Adams was the last Democratic-Republican president (though Jackson claimed to have gotten his ideas from Jefferson's party), then the Democratic party came up. The Republican Party was basically a combination of Whigs, Free Soilers, and Northern Democrats who united to end slavery (and a couple other things they agreed on). Lincoln was the first Republican President. Just shows that you have no clue. Though to be honest, I don't love Lincoln as a president.

Originally posted by Lightstorm
Liberals have saved this country while Conservatives destroyed it. Booming 20's=Liberals, The second a Conservative gets in? Great Depression. Oh wait, a liberal gets in and Bam, THEE SUPER POWER OF THE WORLD!!!

Again, shows that you're immensely ignorant. Did you pass U.S. History in school? I couldn't have if I was as clueless as you are. We had all Republican presidents from 1921 to 1933 (Harding, Coolidge, Hoover). And no, FDR didn't end the great depression, we came out of it naturally. A president couldn't do that, even if he wasn't an idiot. In fact, I blame much of the great depression on the Federal Reserve System (thanks, Wilson!).

Originally posted by Lightstorm
Who was it that destroyed this country with Reganomics? That's right, Regan.

The economy did quite well.

Originally posted by Lightstorm
I like that, Clinton creates the greatest economy ever, he's an evil liberal. The republicans destroy the economy every time they get power and they're Gods.

The economy is doing fine.

Originally posted by Lightstorm
It's not inflamatory it's truth. The Military bills have always been voted down by the republican party in over the past 2 decades. That's a fact. It's reaganomics at work,period and no one mentions it to the faces of these pundits or brings the facts with them.

Well, I'm torn down the middle here. But honestly, if you had to choose between fattening the soldiers' wallets, or giving them better equipment, what would you pick? Money doesn't grow on trees, so if resisting the urge to make their paychecks bigger means making them safer, I pick safer.
And note that Democrats have always wanted to cut military funding during the Cold War.


You do realize, before you go accusing anyone of corruption, that Bill Clinton's campaign was being paid for by The People's Republic of China and felons, who he later pardoned (Pardongate) in return for their monetary support during his last days in office?

[edit on 15-6-2007 by Johnmike]

Hmmm, look at the past. Liberals, booming 20's, a conservative gets in, GP, Liberal gets in, THEE SUPER POWER.

Also, the economy was not doing well under Reaganomics. It was being torn apart. Same as today. What I love is "Look at the Stock Market hitting record highs!" All I have to say is "Look at this, the US Dollar is worth less then toilet paper and inflation is still rising!" So, what good is the stock market if 1,000,000 dollars can't buy a hamburger?

Lightstorm, please, for the love of GOD, read! How many times do I have to say it?

From 1921 to after the 1920's ended, the President was ALWAYS Republican. What can I do but repeat myself when you refuse to read my posts?


Anyway, I'm not the biggest fan of Reagonomics, but limiting government and cutting taxes was a step in the right direction. Though Reagan doesn't deserve all the hype he gets (most presidents don't, like Lincoln, FDR, and JFK). You're right in the sense that the stock market isn't always a perfect indication of the health of the economy. Like I said, look at income and GDP (per capita?). I don't like the Federal Reserve for that reason.

Yes, but you do know that the Democrats were once, gasp, conservative? Liberal and Conservative wasn't kept under Republican or Democrat.

Gee, you should have learned that in middle school.

Actually no, I didn't learn any politics at all in middle school. In fact, I don't know anyone who was... it's at least not part of the New York State curriculum (which I don't love).

"Conservative" and "liberal" are both very vague terms. Modern, capital L "Liberals" refer to what makes up the majority of the modern Democratic Party. Really, though, they're Liberal, but not liberal - socialism and state welfare is best compared to corporatism and, vaguely, feudalism. The modern "conservatives" have that name because of their social conservatism (issues such as gay marriage and abortion). Unfortunately, you get a lot of authoritarian influence in both parties, so you have to look at the candidate and not the party. The only problem is that nearly all Democrats advocate some sort of socialistic policies, so you're stuck trying to pick a Republican that doesn't love preemptive war or authoritarianism. It's hard, especially since most voters don't think.

Originally posted by Lightstorm
Er, wrong Republicans Ape. Democratic Republicans(Lincoln) become Democrats. Abe was another evil liberal. Big government, taxes, civil rights, the usual evil liberal stuff.

What are you talking about? Lincoln was apart of the whig party which opposed the Democrats and they fractured because of slavery and he joined the Republican party. Democratic-republicans? lincoln was never a democratic-republican considering that party splintered before lincoln ever became a politician and he was never a Democrat... he was always a Whig before he joined with the Republicans.

Lincoln signed the emancipation proclamation which is a huge part of US history. African-americans and women vote today because of Republicans.


also madness disregard my first post in this thread.. I misunderstood what you said and the edit option is already gone.

[edit on 15-6-2007 by ape]

Originally posted by MRGERBIK
AND for GODSAKES why don't they punish the employers of these companies who hire illegal immigrants instead of building a stupid fence that's going to do NOTHING.

Exactly. I just said that to a coworker today. If they actually penalized (severely) employers for hiring illegals, that would pretty much nip it in the bud.

I like how people bow down to terms such as Liberal and Conservative. People do not follow or make their own beliefs, they follow someone, else's. That is what I don't get?

Originally posted by Lightstorm
Yes, but you do know that the Democrats were once, gasp, conservative? Liberal and Conservative wasn't kept under Republican or Democrat.

Gee, you should have learned that in middle school.

Ronald Reagan started out as a liberal Democrat (FDR). But then evolved into a conservative Republican.

My grandfather made the same evolution.

Makes me wonder how Reagan would see things these days.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by Lightstorm
Yes, but you do know that the Democrats were once, gasp, conservative? Liberal and Conservative wasn't kept under Republican or Democrat.

Gee, you should have learned that in middle school.

Ronald Reagan started out as a liberal Democrat (FDR). But then evolved into a conservative Republican.

My grandfather made the same evolution.

Makes me wonder how Reagan would see things these days.

As Winston Churchill said, "If you are not a socialist by the time you are 25, you have no heart. If you are still a socialist by the time you are 35, you have no head."

I'm not so impressed by Winston Churchill; as history tells me I should be.

I should say, the winner's history tells me that.

Does anyone here know that Churchill ordered the gassing (from airplanes) of Kurdish villages long, long ago?

Probly not.

That's sort of abscure material these days.

Liberals are for abortion, but against the death penalty.
Kill a baby, save a criminal.

They are for afferimitive action.
Give someone a job based on their race, not qualifications.

Love taxes.
More money in the goverments hands and less in yours! No wonder why we have the lowest savins rate in how many years. The govt knows how to spend your money better than you!!


Illegal Immigration.
The keyword here is ILLEGAL, Whats next to slide down this slope, child molesters?

Gay marriage benifits.
Marriage is defined by the union of a man and woman, not man/man or woman/woman. You want the benifits play by the rules.

Reperations.
You want me to pay for something my great, great, great, great grandfolks may or may have not done? Well then it stands to reason you should pay for my great, great, great, great grand childrens actions. But dont pay them, I want you to pay me!! Lets just call it even.

War in IRAQ/terrorisum.
Along for the ride as long as a Clinton is in office.

Sexual relations isnt sexual.
Just ask Bill.

14 Year olds rights to abortion, condoms.
Ya 14 year olds think with a rational mind.

Partial birth abortion.
Stick a needle in the babys head just before it completely comes out. "wasn't alive untill it came fully out"

Pork barrel projects.
Way to many to list, I'd be here forever.

And on and on and on and on.......................

I don't know what they have done, but I know what they are doing. They are destroying America. Between their whole political correctness crap, and their views on what should and shouldn't be done about our border situation, they are drastically changing America, and it's not for the good,either.

I don't know, maybe you could say "destroying." I honestly don't think it's intentional in most cases, at least among voters. Politicians, that's another story.

But look, just from this thread. How I had to describe the difference between Liberalism and classical liberalism something like four times and still it wasn't read or comprehended by anyone I was debating. In fact, the entire first page is people (no names, you can read it) completely mistaking the difference between modern Liberals (the Left) and the general term "liberal", like when Reagan was called a Liberal. Additionally, you have people who said things like Lincoln was a member of the the Democratic-Republican Party which is total baloney.
I enjoy debates, but when people refuse to read your posts it's worthless. We're supposed to deny ignorance.

Then you have those who believe nothing but what they're told to, like this "FDR saved America!" nonsense that has absolutely no validity whatsoever.

Originally posted by Johnmike
I don't know, maybe you could say "destroying." I honestly don't think it's intentional in most cases, at least among voters. Politicians, that's another story.

But look, just from this thread. How I had to describe the difference between Liberalism and classical liberalism something like four times and still it wasn't read or comprehended by anyone I was debating.
Then you have those who believe nothing but what they're told to, like this "FDR saved America!" nonsense that has absolutely no validity whatsoever.

Oh, there is a definite difference between classical liberalism and modern. Modern day liberalism is nothing less than socialism. Classical liberalism has more in common with present day conservatism, than it does with modern liberalism. The old FDR liberals no longer exist. FDR's liberalism was actually a completely different animal than what is paraded around as liberalism today.

[edit on 21-6-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]