when should we send a signal ?

Some folks in SETI think we should be blasting out a signal now in the hope someday someone will intercept it.

Persoanlly i'd rather wait until we have some decent targets. We're on the edge of discovering earth size planets. In the next few years we will even detect earth size worlds in the habitable zone around stars like our Sun- the best prospect for advanced life.

Should we start singnaling to the other earth type planets we find? what should we say?

Or should we wait until we directly detect another civilization with our own intruments - (leaked radio/tv radar signals) if we do detect leaked signals we know theres definitley someone there.

or do you think we should never send one - too dangerous?



[edit on 13-6-2007 by yeti101]

If they are so advanced we don't need to send anything, and they read our thoughts anyway, arn't they known for that? I feel there are believers in Aliens and want to believe but need evidence types, a bit like religion really.

[edit on 13-6-2007 by The time lord]

lets assume no interstellar travelling aliens exist. Theyre all stuck on their own planet/solar system and cant read our thoughts from 20 light years away.

Lets say they are here and they do not live far away but with less then an electron width away just off our senses. Yeti could be a diversion, maybe from the truth. Sorry but I think people's expereinces alon prove something is within our range if not next door.

heh timelord thanks for your input. I find your thoughts very interesting. But the UFO/Aliens board is here www.abovetopsecret.com...

I posted this in the SETI section looking for opinions on the signalling issue. Thanks

Apparently we send out signals all the time. Our planet has to be a noisy place. All the individual radio waves being emitted from our little sphere has to have been picked up by now. Someone has to have caught some inkling of communication from this planet out there.

Each broadcast goes out into space and has nearly nothing to block the signal so the wavelength would go infinitely.

whatukno thanks for the reply.

our radio signals may have reached 50 light years away by now- and yes i agree someone could have detected those leaked signals. But right now we cannot detect leaked signals from other planets- although we hopefully will with the square kilometer array when its built.

if we were to send a high powered directed signal it has a much better chance of being detected & information extracted from it.



[edit on 18-6-2007 by yeti101]

What's going on with SETI lately? Wow, in August it's going to be 30 years since the "Wow!" signal was received on August 15, 1977. 30 years and no more contact from ET. Did we say something for this silent treatment? Obviously Seti must be doing something right if they only get 1 signal.

I think we're better off waiting and scanning the skies for an intelligent signal. Unless a civilization was on one of the nearby star systems, it would take more than a lifetime for any signal to reach them. If there is a civilization nearby that is similiar to ours, we might be better off studying them to see if they are hostile or peaceful. The last thing I think this planet needs is to signal a hostile species that they have a rival nearby. They may learn about us anyway but we might be better off without giving them an advance signal.

I guess that's a dilemma, if they are more advanced than us, they could either help us or hurt us. Any advanced civilization within 50 light years may have already detected our presence. Time will only tell if we see an invasion fleet or a directed signal coming our way one day.
my two cents

I have heard it said before, and I agree, that it is extraordinarily dangerous for our civilization to be broadcasting our existence all over the cosmos.

There is nothing about us that could benefit another race in any mutual manner.

We, as an intelligent group, would probably have nothing of value to offer an advanced race. And, if we were to come across a race that is even near the same level of advancement as we are, (somewhat more advanced, or somewhat less advanced), the slightest study of our culture would instantly show that we are dangerous to possible "peer" races, and basically do not play well with others.

Our only true value to an alien culture, would be as custodians of a group of resources, or simply as resources ourselves!

Either way, I don't see anything beneficial in the deal for we humans.

As far as the idea of a "benevolent civilization" being out there, even if this is possible, let's look at the following:

1. Out of all the species that have ever developed on our planet, to our knowledge, none have ever naturally developed into an organism that is inherently "good". There is no record of any naturally occurring life-form that ever had the desire, ability or instinct to care for, and positively treat other life-forms outside their own kind.

2. Then, perhaps you will say: Hey! Look at the human race. We strive to be "good", and "caring". To this, I say that we have only even had these concepts for the past few thousand years. And, even with these ideas bouncing around our heads in infancy, look at the messes and horrors we have created on our planet in the name of "good".

So, God help us if we are ever confronted with the same form of "caring" that we have utilized toward other living creatures.

No, calling out to others is not a good idea. At this point, all we can hope to be, in the eyes of another civilization, is either a threat, prey or nuisance.

We should definitely stay quiet, until a few more ships, weapons and secrets are crashed on, or left behind on our planet.

So you're saying it's better to stay to ourselves than to see what's out there. We could bring our demise if some malicious or indifferent lifeform decides we're useless or nuisances. I'd personally prefer the arrival of something but wouldn't welcome any negative consequences from it. IMO these signals from SETI are pointless. If some extraterrestrial life does arrival and makes its presence known it'll be for some other reason not because SETI is yelling over some cup and string.

skynetshield , what if there isnt a civilization in the galaxy that is capable of travelling to earth? that cup & string may be all we have to communicate with other intelligent life forms.

or if they can travel here....

what if sending a signal is the leap of faith mankind must make before being welcomed into the galactic community? A test to see if we are peacefull/open species.

[edit on 25-6-2007 by yeti101]

Originally posted by skynetshield
So you're saying it's better to stay to ourselves than to see what's out there. We could bring our demise if some malicious or indifferent lifeform decides we're useless or nuisances. I'd personally prefer the arrival of something but wouldn't welcome any negative consequences from it. IMO these signals from SETI are pointless. If some extraterrestrial life does arrival and makes its presence known it'll be for some other reason not because SETI is yelling over some cup and string.

I agree with you to a point.

I figure that even if another civilization has actually become "benevolent" in a manner where they would not pose a threat to us, it would extremely advanced and ancient, in order to have gone through the many trial and error mechanisms involved.

And, if they are THAT advanced, chances are they are already aware of our existence.

That means that our signals are pretty much going to races that fall into the much larger "other-than-Good" bucket.

Maybe we need to work our differences out as a human race before we start to engage other lifeforms. I feel that we would not be ready for the arrival of sentient alien life. There is so much war and hate within our own species it would be a nightmare introducing another. What a shame. I guess we should send a signal when we're more advanced as a race. When will that be?

It can also be said that since they might be more evolved and advanced, they would definitely teach us a thing or two about technology, history and possibly ethics.

skynetsheild, why do you think Aliens are suddenly going to arrive at earth if we send a signal? if they had the tech to get here they would already have arrived.

also your statement "Obviously Seti must be doing something right if they only get 1 signal "

is seriously flawed, SETI has had no dedicated telecscopes in its history. Its all been borrowed time on telescopes like acribo. Their total survey time is only a few years. When the ATA comes online later this year they will monitor for signals 24/7 :p





[edit on 27-6-2007 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101
skynetsheild, why do you think Aliens are suddenly going to arrive at earth if we send a signal? if they had the tech to get here they would already have arrived.

I don't think that but I'm referring to the thread topic if I thought that were possible.
How can you prove yes or no to that? You can't. They may not have or may have who knows.

Originally posted by yeti101
also your statement "Obviously Seti must be doing something right if they only get 1 signal

"is seriously flawed, SETI has had no dedicated telecscopes in its history.

I agree that sentiment towards SETI is flawed but they haven't provided much in terms of progress. Now, that they'll be getting more monitoring time maybe more will surface in this lifetime.

i was really meaning if they were going to invade us or something bad. If they are visiting us they havnt done that. And if they have the tech to get here but havnt arrived yet its likely they already know we exist nothing bad has happened so far in 100,000 years of human existance.

i dont think its dangerous to send a signal. Assuming we find a suitable target.



[edit on 27-6-2007 by yeti101]

I just have one curious question/observation about the "Wow! signal"..

Signals through space obviously don't just get to a solid body instantly. It takes time to travel. And of course, the further the distance, the longer the time it takes to travel.

So, what I'm wondering is, we got this one signal nearly 30 years ago, and didn't get it again. People that claim there is no life out there use this to their advantage. But what if the next signal just hasn't gotten here yet? Or what if it did get here, and none of our instruments were pointed in the right direction at the time?

I don't think aliens visit us or walk amongst us. I have seen some interesting arguments in regards to UFO's, but I've seen alot of hoaxes too. I personally think alot of the "UFO sightings" are advanced aircraft made on Earth.

But, I do think it's a little ignorant to assume we're the only life in the universe. And as vast as the universe is, I think that it's entirely possible that at least one life form out there is intelligent. Does that automatically mean they're more advanced than us? No. Does that automatically mean they can get to Earth? No. But is it possible? Yes.

Novus, the problem you outline is known in seti as the "synchronicity problem"

transmitting civilizations may have existed thousands or even millions of years ago- or they may exist years into the future. The chances of one transmitting to us in this tiny window of space/time that we occupy is a long shot. But you have to look or else your guaranteed to find nothing.

Originally posted by yeti101
Some folks in SETI think we should be blasting out a signal now in the hope someday someone will intercept it.
....
Should we start singnaling to the other earth type planets we find? what should we say?

Or should we wait until we directly detect another civilization with our own intruments - (leaked radio/tv radar signals) if we do detect leaked signals we know theres definitley someone there.

or do you think we should never send one - too dangerous?

[edit on 13-6-2007 by yeti101]

What does it cost to send out such a signal? I mean what keeps you from sending one now and tomorrow and in a week again in a month and then when you have a traget send to there also?

What shall we send?
Some pulse with a small or no content but makes sure it's artificial and has to come from an inteligence. Less is more I think. So small and simple.

About too dangerous.. sure it might backfire.. but life is always a risk.
Could happen that in 100 years we have the technologie to optical observe a planet's surface (with a big gravity..maybe the sun this woudl already be possible I think) and discover an evil space travelling civilisatzion that has NOT discoverd us before.....well then we might have a problem.. because we can not stop that signal.. what are the chances of such a scenario? Very small I would say.

However technologie is developeing fast and what does waiting some 100 more years matters in the big time scale?
I think we can well wait till we know more and spare the risk of a possible hedache of our succesors . I see a high chance it becomes
unnecessary to send out such a signal and that we know about extraterestrials existence bevore such a signal ever get's to a possible planet with a civilisatzion taht would be willing to answer.

The most likely scenario I see is that any advanced civilisatzion capable of advanced space travel already knows that we are here and are visting us. Somewhen they decide it's right to get in contact. Then they do.


[edit on 28-6-2007 by g210b]