Carrying identification around at all times

In the past week I have been confronted by cops many times (cops are "cracking down" in our area ).

I haven't been doing anything wrong, either. Each of the times I've been minding my own business, doing nothing that could possibly appear illegal, in my opinion.

Three of the pigs...*cough*...I mean, cops, have told me that it is illegal for a person to not have identification on their person, though each time I have not and they haven't arrested me or anything.

To me that seems a little NAZI. Am I alone?

I was just wondering if there was any legality to them harassing a person and citing false laws (assuming they're false). It doesn't seem right.

yeah it does sound crazy....i think that it is complete BS what the cops said....where do you live. it may be different there. But cops can stop people if they think its nessuary to do so. So one way they can think every stop nessary giving them freedoom to stop anyone.

[edit on 10-6-2007 by boyester]

I live in Idaho. I'm having a hell of a time figuring out where to look for the laws regarding the issue.

It is actualy a law most places that you must have some form of ID on you at all times. I remember a few years ago I was stopped by a county sherif and he requested some ID. I produced a passport. (would have figured that was good enough ID) he kept asking for another form of ID...

I said to him that that is the only form of ID I had on me and that it was a valid form and if he had a problem with it he could take it up with the state department.

After a while of him trying to intimidate me (failingly) I said, "well if I am not under arrest officer I think I will be on my way, have a good night." and left.

The point is an officer does have the right to stop someone they feel is acting suspicious. They have the right to request identification from that person. Other than that if you are not doing anything wrong there isn't much a police officer is going to be able to do to you.

They will try to intimidate you, they may try to search you. But if you keep your cool with them and act professionally you will be ok. Most of the time police officers stop people because they are acting in a way that is suspicious.

Originally posted by whatukno
It is actualy a law most places that you must have some form of ID on you at all times.

Actually that law doesn't apply to walking on a public street(in most places). This isn't nazi germany. "may I see your papers?"

The cops will tell you it's the law, because it makes their job easier, but I've never heard of anyone getting a ticket or a fine because they did not have ID on them. If this were law, they would be raking in the money with all the illegals they could catch with no ID.

Where I live (Belgium - Europe) there is in fact a law, stating that every person needs to have some form of ID on him at all times.

Although it doesn't occur that frequently, people have gotten tickets for it.

It's obligated for the occasions that the person might not be able to identify himself in critical situations. fe: when you are critically injured and need a blood transfusion. If they are unable to indentify you, it's going to be a pain to administer one.


[edit on 10-6-2007 by koenw]

Originally posted by whatukno
It is actualy a law most places that you must have some form of ID on you at all times. I remember a few years ago I was stopped by a county sherif and he requested some ID. I produced a passport. (would have figured that was good enough ID) he kept asking for another form of ID...

I said to him that that is the only form of ID I had on me and that it was a valid form and if he had a problem with it he could take it up with the state department.

After a while of him trying to intimidate me (failingly) I said, "well if I am not under arrest officer I think I will be on my way, have a good night." and left.

The point is an officer does have the right to stop someone they feel is acting suspicious. They have the right to request identification from that person. Other than that if you are not doing anything wrong there isn't much a police officer is going to be able to do to you.

They will try to intimidate you, they may try to search you. But if you keep your cool with them and act professionally you will be ok. Most of the time police officers stop people because they are acting in a way that is suspicious.

In the State of California, I.D. in the form of a Drivers License, a Passport, or a California I.D. Card are required at all times. This has been in force since before I moved here in 1964.

The reasons for this are obvious.

1. If you suffer an accident - whether it's a fall, being struck by a car or other moving objects, and you are rendered unconscious, you can be identified if you need E.R. treatment. If you've been treated previously in the city, often times your previous records can be accessed to determine if you have an on-going health issue, or if you have any allergies to medications.

2. If you are caught-up in some sort of unfortunate chaos - a demonstration that turns violent, for example - proper I.D. can help exhonorate you from further accusal of wrong-doing, if indeed you are an innocent person who just happened to be in the wrong spot at the wrong time. (If you have no arrest record, no pending warrants, etc.)

3. Your proper I.D. can show that you are an American citizen, if indeed you are... and if you are visiting from another country and do not have your passport with you, a normal local I.D. - even if it's in a different language - can be of great benefit in establishing your lawful existence in whatever area you are hurt, questioned, etc.

I NEVER leave home without my Drivers License, my Auto Insurance Card, my AAA towing card and my Blue Cross PPO insurance card. A plane can fall out of the sky, a vehicle can swerve out of control, I can suffer a health problem previously unknown to me, or any number of other incidents can happen. It's a reasonble policy.

How can it be a law for me to carry ID when its NOT a law for me to have a driver license or state ID or even a social security card ? Im supposed to carry around my birth certificate ?

You don't need I.D. in Canada when your just walking around. However many RCMP & city police officers forget this and demand to see some form of I.D. They even demand that you bring it down to the nearest police detachment to show them later. This is actually illegal if you haven't broken the peace. All police & RCMP are actually peace officers first and policy enforcement second. They get their arresting power / deputization power from being a keeper of the peace. They need your I.D. to get you to contract with them as police officers to enforce some kind of contract violation under Maritime Admiralty jurisdiction. Never show them your I.D. If they call your name simply state that you are that names agent and they back off cause your still in common law jurisdiction unless your doing something bad that disturbs the peace.

As the city police were hauling me off to the drunk tank I simply reminded them that I hadn't disturbed the peace & leaving a bar intoxicated filled with numerous other wasted people was not a crime, they stopped the car, let me go & apoligized. Never surrender your rights.

[edit on 11-6-2007 by BattleofBatoche]

Originally posted by iceofspades
I was just wondering if there was any legality to them harassing a person and citing false laws (assuming they're false). It doesn't seem right.

They call this a Terry Stop, if you want to look into the matter further, I suggest you do a google search on it. I would have to guess that if you were stopped in such a way, then you were loitering, trespassing, or otherwise acting in a suspicious manner causing the officer to think you were up to no good.

Can The Police Stop And Question People Who Are Not Under Arrest?
Yes. The police can stop a person, and ask questions, without "arresting" the person. Upon seeing suspicious activity, the police may perform what is called a "Terry Stop," and may temporarily detain people to request that they identify themselves and to question them about the suspicious activity. The scope of a "Terry Stop" is limited to investigation of the specific suspicious activity, and if the police detain people to question them about additional matters, the stop can turn into an "arrest." For their own safety, the police can perform a "weapons frisk" on the outside of a person's clothes (sometimes called "patting down the suspect") during a "Terry Stop." During this frisk, if they feel something that may be a weapon, they may remove it from the suspect for further examination. However, they are not entitled to remove items from person's pockets that do not appear to be weapons, even if they believe that the items are contraband.

[edit on 6/11/2007 by defcon5]

In AU it is now legally required to carry photo ID, thanks to the new terrorism legislation. Obviously, the cops used their discretion and cautioned or informed you. Your very fortunate you weren't arrested.

cheers


www.austlii.edu.au...



[edit on 11-6-2007 by NJE777]

Originally posted by BattleofBatoche
As the city police were hauling me off to the drunk tank I simply reminded them that I hadn't disturbed the peace & leaving a bar intoxicated filled with numerous other wasted people was not a crime, they stopped the car, let me go & apoligized. Never surrender your rights.

See, I believe this is an example of how it should be in a free, democratic nation. Police officers are supposed to protect the public, not harass them.

I would have to guess that if you were stopped in such a way, then you were loitering, trespassing, or otherwise acting in a suspicious manner causing the officer to think you were up to no good.

That's another issue. Every time I was stopped, I was doing nothing I would think could be considered suspicious. One of the times I was walking through a public park smoking a cigarette. Another I was standing in front of the capital building on the phone. I think it has something to do with the fact that, although I'm 18, I look about 16, and what's more, I dress like a stereotypical gay guy. Profiling much?

1. If you suffer an accident - whether it's a fall, being struck by a car or other moving objects, and you are rendered unconscious, you can be identified if you need E.R. treatment.

I can understand this, but why make it legally required to carry around ID? Sure, if I have a fatal allergy to penicillin, I should certainly carry some sort of notice around, but shouldn't that be my own choice?

some questions Iceofspades,

How old are you? (don't answer if you don't want to)

If you are over 18, do you still look like minor?

What was the area like that you were hanging out at?
Is /was it known for illegal activity in the past?

In your own words you state, that you were not doing anything illegal, "in your opinion", exactly what were you doing?


Law or not, you should carry an ID at all times.

If a Police Officer (not pig) stops you and asks to see ID, show it to him, it may not be that he's harrasing you.
You never know what could have been happening earlier or is still going on and they could be looking for someone.

Just cooperate with the police.

Originally posted by AcesInTheHole
The cops will tell you it's the law, because it makes their job easier, but I've never heard of anyone getting a ticket or a fine because they did not have ID on them. If this were law, they would be raking in the money with all the illegals they could catch with no ID.

It is on the books in most states. Actually it is an arrestable offense. However if you actually aren't doing anything wrong, it would get thrown out of court on principal. Its not actually worth it for the police to be picking people up for lack of ID. Unless of course they can pin a larger charge on the person. You can be held for 24 hours for not having any form of identification on you.

did you tell the little piggies that demanding your "papers" was nazi like? i say that to them during seatbelt check roadblocks where they end up arresting more people on other charges than they do when it comes to handing out tickets for no seatbelts. that's very nazi like and why i don't like checkpoints. this shouldn't surprise anyone as during operation paper clip 100's, more likely 1,000's, of the NAZI's leading minds were transported to America. the CIA, NASA, ect....all created by NAZIS! look it up. the NAZIS didn't die off, they simply moved across the Atlantic.


[edit on 11-6-2007 by LooseLipsSinkShips]

I remember they started doing this in Miami a few years ago. They stopped a whole bus and searched everyone for their "papers." One woman didnt have her ID on her and she was arrested I believe.

Several court cases have been focused on this subject. In one the person demanded to see the law which said he had to have identification on him at all times and the judge said that the law was secret and that he (the judge) had seen the law and knows it really exists, but regular citizens arnt allowed to see it. Reminds me of the non-existant income tax laws. Pretty scary stuff.

Im sure we all remember the UCLA student tasered for not showing his student ID. Welcome to the socialist police state of the North American Union, a subsidiary of the NWO.

I carry my name & my fingerprints with me at all times.

I have no problem showing my ID. I have nothing to hide, and it's pretty stupid to leave your house without some form of ID on you anyways, in case something happens.

I live in Montreal, Canada and I have a friend who is a cop. If they ask for your ID it is normally because they will be giving you a ticket (usually for stuff like disturbing the peace, loitering, etc...) but you don't HAVE to give it to them, even if they say you do. You have the right to give your name and information verbally but you're required to be truthful about that. Cops have tricks to try and trap people who are lying when giving their information and if you get caught lying, you will be in deep trouble.

I might get some boos and hisses from this statement but i respect the heck out of cops, sure there might be some that are corrupt(there is in every profession) but these guys see the worst possible scenarios on a day in day out bases, put there lives on the line to protect us and make chump change while there at it too, it's a miracle there all not suicidal seeing and experiencing the things that they do day in and day out.


Also for the record i think most beat cops would shoot on site if they knew some of the people involved in mkultra and other twisted going ons in our country and in our government, but the unfortunate truth is they don't know whats going on that high up, it's just a fact.

[edit on 13-6-2007 by WhatIsWhat]

When i was in HK in the early 80s the police used to turn up seal off an area and go in after the illegals- those without an ID card.
So eventually our govt decided to get in on the act and for years when i was doing political type things and used to end up avoiding police check points just because I didn't have the relevant card at that time; and one time had a police helicopter overhead while i drove around and around a roundabout..... those were the days;

So how serious is all this ID stuff.
Depends on how much of interest is encoded onto the card and what decsions have been made in terms of doing something about it.

In my job i can be watched as I do my work from any computer that logs onto that program and sees what i am up to.
so i get a cell phone call....."what have you just done".... from someone a thousand miles away.... so the trick is to make things look as predictable as possible even your devious mind is doing something completely different. Only when for some reason or other those with the ability to watch and maybe make a few minor decsions decide that something unusual is happening will you gain attention and the expensive time consuming audit may happen if it is serious enough.
Total survelliance even when the capacity exisits only happens in the movies and in real life only when management identify something of interest and decide to have look.
Otherwise millions of motorvechiles pass under the cameras millions of postal items are delievered millions of people pass through police check points without any one seeing anything unusual happening..relax.

To conclude then. What is the nature of the system and what are the policy makers up to in designing the system? what parts of the system don't really work and what parts are only looked at when a problem is identified? what are those problems and who does the looking and what decsion making do those people have? Take care.