The real 911 smoking gun

Originally posted by Caustic Logic
Originally posted by LightWorker13
PROBABILITY OF DRILL AND TERROR ATTACK COINCIDING BY CHANCE (10yr mean):
One chance in 3,715,592,613,265,750,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Originally posted by Caustic Logic
I have a hunch no one actually ever calcualted that number. I'd guess they just typed lots of zeros. Do you have any idea how huge that number is?
I just get tired of seing tis "figure" batted around. Suffice to say, the odds are slim, perhaps in the 1/100 - 1/1,000 range.

No, the odds of having a drill for a specific situation on the very same day the situation takes place is probably a bigger number then the one LightWorker13 posted.

I mean, we are not talking about a fire drill here... We are talking about a specific event that only took place once in known history.


[edit on 11-6-2007 by selfless]

The odds seem a little silly. I don't see how you can really work that out. However, no matter how unlikely the odds it is still possible. The odds are interesting but prove nothing.

What's more interesting is one of the buses being sent a different direction by police before it blew up. That guy that was shot in the head however many times (What did he see?). There is countless others but I suppose you need to simplify.

As for 9/11 what about the guy who went on oath about the conversation he overheard between Cheyney, "Of course the orders still stand have you heard any thing different" not exact quote but I'll look it up. I can't remember his name, It was like beretta or something.

Any mention of no planes, hi-tech nukes, holograms etc. Doesn't help because it cannot be proven no matter how true it may be. The focus should be on easily provable things.

Operation Northwoods proves it's not unlikely for the government to do something like this. So even if it was a bunch of terrorists who hate freedom, puppies etc. There still should be a thorough investigation.

Originally posted by selfless

No, the odds of having a drill for a specific situation on the very same day the situation takes place is probably a bigger number then the one LightWorker13 posted.

I hope that's sarcasm or silly hyperbole. One chance in 3,715,592,613,265,750,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Count from the right to left, each comma representing a jump of 1,000 times the previous... thousands, millions, billions, trillions, something, somethingx1000, somethingx1,000,000, somethingx1,000,000,000, somethingx1,000,000,000,000, somethingx1,000,000,000,000,000, somethingx1,000,000,000,000,000,000, somethingx1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, somethingx1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 somethingx1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000.

okay? One in 3.71559... of THOSE. What the heck now I'm baflled right to the floor. Wow. This wargames stuff has to be true, whether it makes sense or not, with numbers like that.

But anyway, it does make sense, it seems to have confused the response some, but not sure what else, and there's clearly more than coincidence involved with or without this gigantic numberlike thing. It's pretty irrelevant to this interesting case. I mean were they calculating in odds like "being on the Earth, of all planets in the known universe," and "being in the aviation age rather than the precambrian period," etc?

Originally posted by Krahzeef_Ukhar
What's more interesting is one of the buses being sent a different direction by police before it blew up. That guy that was shot in the head however many times (What did he see?). There is countless others but I suppose you need to simplify.

Like the global war the US started to keep another 9/11 from happening, when they had all tools necessary to stop 9/11 itself and just "didn't put the puzzle together?"

As for 9/11 what about the guy who went on oath about the conversation he overheard between Cheyney, "Of course the orders still stand have you heard any thing different" not exact quote but I'll look it up. I can't remember his name, It was like beretta or something.

Norman Minetta, trans. sec. In the bunker w/Cheney. People disagree what the order is, some say stand down, but most contextual evidence points to a shoot-down order. I've heard it argued both ways so it makes sense, so dunno. Anyway, no actual FIGHETER PILOTS ever got the order, however heart-rending it was to issue.

Any mention of no planes, hi-tech nukes, holograms etc. Doesn't help because it cannot be proven no matter how true it may be. The focus should be on easily provable things.

Operation Northwoods proves it's not unlikely for the government to do something like this. So even if it was a bunch of terrorists who hate freedom, puppies etc. There still should be a thorough investigation.

Dude, you're alright. I'm even more suspicious than that - I mean, WHY was Northwods published right before 9/11? It did excellently prep the drones and no-planes theories, like that lone gunmen episode. Chances of BOTH of these happening withing a year or two of 9/11:
one in 4,674,028,914,860,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Just a rough calc, can show my work on request.

Originally posted by Krahzeef_Ukhar
The odds seem a little silly. I don't see how you can really work that out. However, no matter how unlikely the odds it is still possible.

I don't think you can work it out exactly and I think they would be even greater then what Lightworker13 suggested.

Originally posted by Krahzeef_Ukhar
The odds are interesting but prove nothing.

I beg to differ.

The odds proves that it's extremely suspicious that such a coincidence would happen.

In fact, the odds are so monumental that it's pretty silly to think it was a just a coincidence.

Originally posted by Krahzeef_Ukhar
As for 9/11 what about the guy who went on oath about the conversation he overheard between Cheyney, "Of course the orders still stand have you heard any thing different" not exact quote but I'll look it up. I can't remember his name, It was like beretta or something.

I don't know what you are referring to, please do try to find it and post it here if you can.

Originally posted by Krahzeef_Ukhar
Any mention of no planes, hi-tech nukes, holograms etc. Doesn't help because it cannot be proven no matter how true it may be. The focus should be on easily provable things.

Just because something hasn't been proven yet, it shouldn't be dismissed.

The reason for the research is to prove things so to stop researching would be a tremendous paradox on trying to prove things.

Originally posted by Krahzeef_Ukhar
Operation Northwoods proves it's not unlikely for the government to do something like this. So even if it was a bunch of terrorists who hate freedom, puppies etc. There still should be a thorough investigation.

Yes there should be an investigation and the lack of investigation only shows the implications that it was an inside job.

However, since there are no governmental investigations(well no relevant and honest investigations), the people took the responsibility to come together on the internet and do the investigation our selves just like we are doing right now.

And the overall researches of multiple individuals has been pretty damn impressive and efficient.

[edit on 11-6-2007 by selfless]

Caustic Logic,

The odds of the insanely huge monumental and almost never ending number of the chances for having the drill for the specific situation of 911 that took place only once in known history, is very much an important piece of evidence in the consensus that it was not a coincidence.

As far as I'm concerned anyways.

Take all the days of the planet ever since air planes were invented and then take all the concepts in our reality together and then take all the locations on earth and so on and so on...

For all these factors to fit together at the same day that 911 happened would be almost infinite.

[edit on 11-6-2007 by selfless]

What are the odds of me scratching my left butt cheek as I'm on this thread?

Well to be on this thread is fairly odd as there are so many threads on this site. And considering all the different message boards on the internet it makes the odds even greater. And for my butt to be itchy whilst on this site. And then my left cheek at that? What are the odds that I'm even near a PC whilst this cheek itches. Or even that I have computer, or one with internet access. And then what are the odds of me even being alive. All the different things which had to be in place for me to be scratching my ass at this precise moment would be a gigantic number.

Of course just because the odds of everything falling into place is extremely high doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Mineta responds to an opening question by Commissioner Hamilton about the events in the PEOC and an alleged shoot down order. He describes a conversation between Cheney and a young man:

Mineta: “During the time that the airplane was coming into the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President…the plane is 50 miles out…the plane is 30 miles out….and when it got down to the plane is 10 miles out, the young man also said to the vice president “do the orders still stand?” And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said “Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary!??”

The best evidence is the money trail; no other evidence no matter how scientific and how obvious will ever get anywhere, ever. You could convince someone that the towers were demolished but as soon as you leave them alone for a week or two their mind will revert to its previous state and you are back at square one. Unless they are a physicist or a rocket scientist they just won't understand the evidence. The money trail is irrefutable and easy to understand and that is where most effort should be concentrated.

Originally posted by Krahzeef_Ukhar
What are the odds of me scratching my left butt cheek as I'm on this thread?

Well to be on this thread is fairly odd as there are so many threads on this site. And considering all the different message boards on the internet it makes the odds even greater. And for my butt to be itchy whilst on this site. And then my left cheek at that? What are the odds that I'm even near a PC whilst this cheek itches. Or even that I have computer, or one with internet access. And then what are the odds of me even being alive. All the different things which had to be in place for me to be scratching my ass at this precise moment would be a gigantic number.

Of course just because the odds of everything falling into place is extremely high doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I mean no disrespect but,

That logic is irrelevant to the point we are making because it doesn't have another identical situation comparison.

And also, because you are alive right now experiencing your existence as we speak, it means that it's impossible that you were never at one point, not eternal energy. (Just my perception). So it's not a coincidence that you are alive right now, you are simply experiencing your own individual self.

I'll try to give an example out of what you just said that would be more related to the coincidence of 911.


The odds that your neighbor to the left of your house to be reading the exact same thread you are reading right now wearing the exact same combination of clothes you are wearing and having the exact same age as you and on top of that scratching his left cheek at the exact same time then you are, is a better comparison of the 911 drill coincidence.

So this would mean that you would have to stage an event where you tell a person of your same age to go next door to the house to your left and watch the same thread as you are and make sure he is dressed the same way you are and then at a cue point, you both scratch your left but cheeks at the same time.

You see, this could probably not be accomplished other then to create it purposely.

[edit on 11-6-2007 by selfless]

Originally posted by snoopy
For instance the part about planes crashing into a building. This was a fire drill exercise to prepare for the event of a small plane losing hydrolics crashing into a building tower at their office.

Oh yrah, forgot about that one. The NRO drill of a small plane into their HQ on the 7-year anniversary of Frank Eugene Corder's crash into the White House (try anagrams on his name). Okay, so add 3 or 4 zeros to the factor...

So it's a lot of hype and no substance there. But it does make for good sensationalism and does boost sales for some web sites.

Operationaly, I agree with you Snoop, they were mostly irrelevant. The thing about drawing fighter from the east coast is bull as far as I can see. 4 on alert was standard. The way they were used also had little to do with the wargames, other than perhaps confusing it a bit at first. The defense scrambling was at another level, and seems dispersed, apparently accident.
But that does seem an oddly dense clustering of simulations... does it not?
And it made for "good sensationalism," and good CT material. Why so much material, relevant or no? There is something going on here.

dbl post

[edit on 11-6-2007 by Caustic Logic]

Fair enough, maybe my example wasn't the best. All I'm trying to say is that many things happen which have extremely low odds of happening. I believe they were running drills that day to confuse everything. The same as on 7/7.

However there is a chance of it happening, the chance is very small. But it still exists. A few numbers don't prove anything, finding the proper reports on these drills would be far more beneficial than numbers which cannot really be conceptualised.

Originally posted by Krahzeef_Ukhar
However there is a chance of it happening, the chance is very small. But it still exists.

True but I would bet my current life on the choice that it was not a coincidence.

Originally posted by selfless
Caustic Logic,

The odds of the insanely huge monumental and almost never ending number of the chances for having the drill for the specific situation of 911 that took place only once in known history, is very much an important piece of evidence in the consensus that it was not a coincidence.

As far as I'm concerned anyways.

Take all the days of the planet ever since air planes were invented and then take all the concepts in our reality together and then take all the locations on earth and so on and so on...

For all these factors to fit together at the same day that 911 happened would be almost infinite.

[edit on 11-6-2007 by selfless]

Yeah, just irrelevant too. What're the odds of us having this discussion? About the same. anyway, one thing for sure - factor in a desire for a "catastrophic and catalyzing event" and all the other factors lining up in DC, and the odds of everything lining up like that become something like one in one. And ultimately it did happen, so it was indeed a one in one poss. Some gulf of improbability of however many digits WAS crossed by some magic. 'Nuff math.

Originally posted by Caustic Logic
I have a hunch no one actually ever calcualted that number. I'd guess they just typed lots of zeros. Do you have any idea how huge that number is?
I just get tired of seing tis "figure" batted around. Suffice to say, the odds are slim, perhaps in the 1/100 - 1/1,000 range.

No offense, but do you realize what you just did? You accussed someone of comming up with that number and never calculating it. Then, you say "perhaps in the 1/100-1/1,00 range." You are treading on hypocritical waters IMO. Again, no offense ment.

Originally posted by Caustic Logic

I hope that's sarcasm or silly hyperbole. One chance in 3,715,592,613,265,750,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Count from the right to left, each comma representing a jump of 1,000 times the previous... thousands, millions, billions, trillions, something, somethingx1000, somethingx1,000,000, somethingx1,000,000,000, somethingx1,000,000,000,000, somethingx1,000,000,000,000,000, somethingx1,000,000,000,000,000,000, somethingx1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, somethingx1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 somethingx1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000.

3,715,592,613,265,750,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

the numbers in bold are QUADRILLION. a number nearly incomprehensible by the human brain. anything beyond this number is just fluff. we don't have the capability of realizing what that number means. humans have labels for numbers up to a googolplex which is 10 to the 10th (to the 100th power) power. yes you read that correctly.

the statisics given are better off said that they could never happen by chance. I think that we need the information this stat is based on. I've done conservative estimates of how many life-supporting planets there are in the Universe. Given that the Universe is endless, I used data from our "known" universe and the figures came out to roughly 400 quadrillion.

I find the 9/11 drill statistic a little silly. and I'm anti-official story.

[edit on 11-6-2007 by tyranny22]

well if this (initial post) is really true, then i wonder why nobody is doing anything against those people and brings them down and to justice!

they shall burn in hell!

[edit on 11/6/07 by cometa]

Originally posted by selfless
The odds that your neighbor to the left of your house to be reading the exact same thread you are reading right now wearing the exact same combination of clothes you are wearing and having the exact same age as you and on top of that scratching his left cheek at the exact same time then you are, is a better comparison of the 911 drill coincidence.

You are implying several things about the 9/11 military drills that simply aren't true.

1) These drills were singular events that had never occurred before.

False. Global Guardian is an annual event. Vigilant Guardian and Amalgam Warrior are semi-annual events (every six months).

2) These drills were simulating attacks that resembled 9/11.

Not really. These drills simulated a Russian bomber attack (Vigilant Guardian)...on 9/11 a scenario involving a hijack (over Alaska was being used, American nuclear executions (Global Guardian).

3) These drills put planes in the air that could confuse controllers.

True and False. Vigilant Guardian was a Command Post Exercise (CPX)...nothing real in the air...all about pushing the right buttons on the ground. Amalgam Warrior did put planes in the air.

4) These drills slowed response time and caused confusion.

False. If anything, the fact that personnel were at their desks and did not need to be called in made military response faster than it would have been.


So selfless, unless you can explain how these facts align with what you're implying, and unless you can show the statistical support for your gazibblibillion to one odds...you need to drop this as a viable argument.

And for the record, here is a revised analogy for you to use that accurately reflects what actually happened on 9/11:

The odds that your neighbor to the left of your house to be using their computer at the same time you are using yours...and you're both wearing clothes.

Coincidence? Yes. Yes it is.
Grillion to one odds? I don't think so.

Just to clerify, the OP is talking about the ANNUAL and SEMIANNUAL exercices that occur and have occured during the same time period annually and semiannually?
Those exercises?


Also, there are exercises occuring ALL THE TIME, lol
You only hear about the big ones though. The odds of a terrorist attack occuring on the same day as an exercise somewhere is nearly 1 to 1


Also, maybe, just maybe, to carry out the largest terrorist attack in history....maybe you do a little homework and planning, no? Finding out when these exercises occur is not difficult.