Scientists Invent Wireless Electricity Beaming

Now I am confused.
The inital post link said magnetic induction as did the video
while the technical paper said electromagnetic modes
I was under the impression from the first link that the wave length of 10MHZ was creating a magnetic wave that was the induction alone, as he reiterated on the video which is what makes it safe.

Using low frequency electromagnetic waves, which are about 30m (100ft) long, also has a safety advantage according to Professor Pendry.

"Ordinarily if you have a transmitter operating like a mobile phone at 2GHz - a much shorter wavelength - then it radiates a mixture of magnetic and electric fields," he said

This is a characteristic of what is known as the "far field", the field seen more than one wavelength from the device. At a distance of less than one wavelength the field is almost entirely magnetic.

"The body really responds strongly to electric fields, which is why you can cook a chicken in a microwave," said Sir John.

"But it doesn't respond to magnetic fields. As far as we know the body has almost zero response to magnetic fields in terms of the amount of power it absorbs."

As a result, the system should not present any significant health risk to humans, said Professor Soljacic.
news.bbc.co.uk...

which seems contradictory to the technical paper.
I assume I did not understand the sentance in the technical paper then.

Junglelord
Well I stand corrected it is not magnetic induction alone, according to the paper it is long lived oscillatory electromagnetic modes, with localized slowly evenscent field patterns for mid range applications, 3.5 meters.
Where as magnetic induction is only applicable to short range applications.
Resonance is the key to the device as I did make the statement that resonace coupling is critical to understanding the system.
but hey you cannot be correct about everything and its good to admit your mistakes and learn something
arxiv.org...

anyone?


[edit on 11-6-2007 by junglelord]

Originally posted by junglelord
Now I am confused.
The inital post link said magnetic induction as did the video
while the technical paper said electromagnetic modes
I was under the impression from the first link that the wave length of 10MHZ was creating a magnetic wave that was the induction alone, as he reiterated on the video which is what makes it safe.

Still haven't gotten time to read the paper, but it's going to be what I said at first with probably a few twists.

Don't think induction like two coils on a transformer. It's not that, at least not exactly, although it seems a lot like it.

It's a near-field transmission.

If you wanted to transmit the signal as a propagating radio wave, you'd rig a proper antenna, which for 10 meters would be maybe 5 meters long. If tuned properly, and the right length, you could get a nice combination of E and H fields that would combine at the near-far field boundary, become independent of the radiator, and propagate away in a proper, efficient fashion.

You don't want that with this.

So you make an antenna that doesn't have a proper E field component, and beyond the "lambda wall" where near fields transition into far fields, the H component can't find a correct E component to hook up with, and it *doesn't* radiate. Thus the "non-radiative" term you see in the articles. Also, the 3.5 meters number, which is about right for 10MHz's lambda boundary radius.

The naked H-field part of a radio wave in the near field is magnetic. So that's where the magnetic statements are coming from.

However, even in the near field, you'd normally get that sixth power of distance thing coming in to eat up all your magnetic field power. So he's doing something extra. That's what I haven't seen yet, because I'm still critiquing a manuscript, and it's boring so I'm out here on ATS instead of just finishing.

[edit on 11-6-2007 by Tom Bedlam]

Originally posted by allseeingi

Amazing stuff! What happens if a person or animal gets in the way of the power stream? ZAP?!

That was my initial reaction. We know that power lines produce electro-magnetic radiation. What does wireless electricity produce?

Originally posted by Griff

That was my initial reaction. We know that power lines produce electro-magnetic radiation. What does wireless electricity produce?

A big H-field component. Think of it as what comes from power lines if you're not right under them, maybe, because right under them you'd have a big E field too, and this won't have that.

You use inductive near-field waves for radio implants because your body doesn't really interact with it. That allows you to power the implant even though it's inside a nice bag of salt water.

I'd expect the RFID guys are frantically patenting whatever this guy is doing as it applies to H-field implants, if it doesn't add too much bulk. That would allow them to power it out to the lambda wall for the frequency they're using instead of being sixth-powered to death.

So your e-passport might work reliably out to 3.5 meters with a reasonable sized exciter instead of dying off half a meter away. There's still an SNR problem with the way they signal - the return falls off dramatically with distance, although maybe you could get around that with this trick as well.

rumor has it that the military has been using this technology for years to recharge submarine batteries remotely. no need to use a noisy reactor or generator if you can cruise at 4 knots completely silent running purely off of batteries. and have the energy be resupplied quitely using whatever towed array they use to accomplish this. Maybe this is what places like pine gap help to do on the DL. that whole supposed antenna that goes down like 2 kilometers into the ground underneath pinegap. a low frequency transmitter to send power to various military applications/devices around the world?

could haarp do this also?

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
rumor has it that the military has been using this technology for years to recharge submarine batteries remotely. no need to use a noisy reactor or generator if you can cruise at 4 knots completely silent running purely off of batteries. and have the energy be resupplied quitely using whatever towed array they use to accomplish this.

Submarine nuclear reactors are pretty darn quiet, as are LOX/diesel Stirling engines for non-nuclear use. They can even hide the bubbles from the exhaust, and one of those can run from batteries for quite a while. So using this to charge a sub would require a surface ship following it around a few yards above.

You could get the distance up if you got the frequency down, but you'd have to be towing a coil with a huge radius, and that would go for the sub as well.

I don't see it, personally.

Maybe this is what places like pine gap help to do on the DL. that whole supposed antenna that goes down like 2 kilometers into the ground underneath pinegap. a low frequency transmitter to send power to various military applications/devices around the world?

No, that's a VLF transmitter to communicate with subs.

could haarp do this also?

If you mean, could HAARP make VLF to communicate with subs, yes, albeit indirectly. If you mean power subs, no.

darn. it was a good idea though. However I have heard that the lines they tow are like two miles long. But who really knows other than the guys on the boats. I guess I'll never knwo.

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
darn. it was a good idea though. However I have heard that the lines they tow are like two miles long. But who really knows other than the guys on the boats. I guess I'll never knwo.

Well, they can tow a pretty long array for sonar (say in the hundred foot range), and for VLF and (at one time) for ELF they tow really long lines for antennas.

The latest most wonderful thing is to use a SQUID inside the boat (irony) and not tow any lines, and they're slowly refitting the boats with that, as far as I know.

whats a SQUID inside the boat?

Curious is it some new technology yet to be disclosed to the public. whats it do?

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
whats a SQUID inside the boat?

Curious is it some new technology yet to be disclosed to the public. whats it do?

Oh. Well, first, we call all Navy guys squids "just for fun", thus my comment that it was ironic. Actually, it's even more fun to call Marines squids and pretend you think they're Navy.

Anyways, a SQUID is a "Superconducting QUantum Interference Detector", which is an ungodly sensitive magnetic field sensor. You can actually just pick up the magnetic field component of ELF or VLF and detect the signal that way. While it's complicated mechanically, it doesn't require you to trail a long line, which is good.

You can also use multiple SQUIDs and space them out into a sort of magnetic wave component interferometer, and correlate their outputs to pull even smaller signals up out of the noise floor. There's even more sensitive magnetic field detectors like SERFs, too, but SQUIDs can be made pretty tough these days, and it's sensitive enough, especially if you use more than one.

interesting. So on the older 688's were those rear rudder thingies really hydrophones or some sort of complicated SQUID setup. Also, SQUID could be used for a lot of purposes couldn't it. Ones the average joe don't generally think of.

I think some marines might not want to be in the navy because they don't want to be surrounded by sea men. JK bad joke.

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
interesting. So on the older 688's were those rear rudder thingies really hydrophones or some sort of complicated SQUID setup. Also, SQUID could be used for a lot of purposes couldn't it. Ones the average joe don't generally think of.

I think some marines might not want to be in the navy because they don't want to be surrounded by sea men. JK bad joke.

A SQUID used to be about the size of a two drawer filing cabinet but I could imagine they're smaller now.

Someone mentioned what you could do with a crystal radio earlier... no, you certainly won't be able to achieve the power you want for a light bulb using the oscillating crystal of a $20 crystal radio set.

However, using the same principals of how that set works, tuned to the frequency of a nearby power transformer, (and one hell of a parabolic antenna), you may be able to trickle charge a battery over time using the EM resonance of that nearby transformer. But, when we get into the sheer size and cost of the apparatus, it becomes useless. You may as well just buy a solar panel and charge 500 batteries in place of the one that the setup might acheive.

I used to think it would be enough power to light a bulb permanently... so, fool heartedly I set out to see just how much power I could drain from the power grid... after some frustratingly boring tests, and allot of wasted time, I soon discovered that it's pretty much unfeasible.

After which I contemplated what would it be like if it had drawn massive amounts of power... I decided that if it was able to draw enough power to run your home, that it should be destroyed IMMEDIATELY.
The problem with this form of stealing energy, is, if everyone starts stealing power from the power grid... who's left to pay the bill? Nobody... does the power grid remain on? No... Essentially, in however long it takes for others to figure it out themselves, thats how long you will have power... after that, you can expect to see the entire neighborhood/city unable to pay for the power it uses... hence, you achieve a self assured black out.

So no, even if wirelessly stealing energy was possible, anyone intelligent enough to create the system would never allow you or anyone else to get their hands on it... so don't expect it to happen.


As for using the supplied household power to wirelessly charge your electronics, I'm all for it... however, we have to ensure laws are in place which prevent your neighbors from using a receiver coil to draw power for their own purposes... that part could prove to be a little tricky.

Comrads, the famous inventor Nikola Tesla was indeed the prodigy of this technology, there is no doubt about that. Nikola Tesla was on the verge of building huge power plants around the world that was going to power the entire world with basically free energy; or should I say a very, very low cost of energy.

Nikola Tesla power plants were designed to take energy out of the atmosphere and literally pump millions of volts and watts into the ground. The ground itself (actually damp soil and water within the ground) was to be the conduit by which the electricity would reach out for hundreds of miles in all directions, instead of using expensive copper and steel cables and wires like we do today.

Nikola had many pipes (26?) in the ground up to 100? feet or so in depth in his Waldencliff Tower with which to get most of the energy pumped into the ground with; supposedly they reached down into the subsurface water table.

From these towers he was going to transmitt energy through the Earth via underground water tables and damp soil (perfect transmitters of electricity) to everyones houses.

The Earth itself was going to be the negative, and the atmosphere the positive. At each home a long stake was supposed to be driven deeply into the ground to retrieve the electricity, and it was to come up to some kind of coil or transformer type of equipment to boost the energy, whereby the energy could virtually be transmitted into the house.

Have a nice holiday comrads!

Originally posted by redseal
E=I/R, E=voltage, I=current, and R=resistance.

Hello all...

This is a very interesting subject...but in the interest of providing correct info, the above formula is wrong...

Voltage ( or E here or V in other calcs) = E=IR, or Voltage = Current multiplied by Resistance, not Voltage = Current divided by Resistance...

Just a FYI...




[edit on 2-9-2007 by Jedi_Master]