Gold, Silver ...... and you.

I don't mind saying that I do own a lot of silver and to a lesser degree gold....... why do I post it here instead of the business section? here is why.

To me what I am holding is as a survivalist tool in order for everything that I buy in the future to have the same value as it does today..... we don't know what awaits us in the future so that it is better if we get ready for any aventuality......... BETTER TO BE READY FOR ALL AND THAT WAY YOU WON'T BE AFRAID OF ANYTHING...

People make fun of me and my five 5 gallons platics bottles full of coins and dollars bills (saving them for the past 28 years), remember what happened in Germany back in the 30's? paper money was good only for heating the house and insulating the house and as toilet paper......but, this old lady lived like a queen with a bathtub full of coins.

Lets say that you buy a one oz of silver for $5.15 (my average) when gas, shoes, bread, milk and everything else goes to the sky in price then my silver will also be going up at the same rate OR faster so that the same price that I pay today I will pay tomorrow. Is not a matter of "making money" but of keeping the value of money.

About two years ago I pre-paid for 1,000 gallons of gasolines at $1.69 per gallon...... today the price is of $3.79 but I am still paying only $1.69, sorry to say that I only have about 78 gallons left in my account.

Six months ago I did buy another 1,000 gallons at $2.25 and the wife of the service station owner almost killed him, he begg me to return the contract, which I did......did it for two reasons 1= he's a nice guy and 2= in the future when there is no gas, or hard to get, I know tha I will have gas.

I suggest that you also invest in PM and get ready for what is to come.

PS: I still thinking what to do with all those dollars bills, I would have to break al five 5 gallons and separate them.......what a mess.

I'm in the same boat. I have quite a bit of precious metal. Also a 5gal water jug almost full of change from the past 6 yrs. How did you go about buying a contract for personal fuel? That is something I have alot of interest in.

This is a very small Micky Mouse one mule of a town (too small to be a one horse town) and we have only one service station......

I simply walked up to the owner and asked him if I could speak to him in his office, in his office I placed $2,000 cash on the table and told him that I wanted to pre-paid for 1,000 of gasoline........... the price at the time was of $1.79 but because I was paying ahead of time he gave it to me for $1.69 hehehehehehheheeh, I had a ready to sign contract with the ammount blank which he filled and signed...... gave him $1,690 and went out the door.

By the way, I also woke him up about silver and now he is also buying it.

I would suggest on investing in some Brass too, preferably loaded with a bullet, powder and primer

In an economical collapse gold and silver will be valuable, but if the entire nation shuts down due to a mass casuality incident valuable metals will loose their value too. At least for a short perioid, during that perioid you need something practical to barter supplies for you. And a mart man could make a fortune in trading ammo to gold and silver while waiting for the worst to blow over...

[edit on 7-6-2007 by northwolf]

I understand the use of gold and silver in the means of purchasing power, But what if everyone else is doing the same thing, wouldnt the people with the extra gear, and so forth be the real robber barons of that day? As well as people who can make things that are of use in that situation,

gold and silver will only get you so far and not to mention not everyone would take your gold or silver. I mean I have 3 kids and a wife, I would much rather barter goods for goods then gold for goods. what will I do with gold when everyone around me wants things to help them survive?

I do understand the value of presious metals but at the same time I think that we might be making those metals less an less rare to a degree compared to goods.

Here's my advice when it comes to gold and silver:

1. Look around before you buy.

Visit at least three gold / coin dealers, hopefully in 2 neighboring towns, since they tend to know each other, and have "gentleman's agreements" about what they will charge first-timers like you.

2. Focus on metallic content.

Collectability and Commemorative value are of no interest to the survival investor. If you walk in and say, "I'd like some silver one-ounce rounds," the dealer will probably start showing you a silver Maria Theresa Thaler from 1782, and offer it to you for a hundred bucks. HE is interested in his mark-up; he'll tell you that bullion is a lousy investment. Generally, you have to push him a bit, to sell you what you want.

The fact is, if you need silver and gold to barter with, the person you trade to will only be interested in the weight of precious metal, not who it was made by. The whole problem with collectability is that it's entirely subjective, and is dependent on what the buyer is willing to pay. In the middle of a hurricane or invasion, no one will care if your coin is rare--they'll want to know how much gold it has.

That said, there's a fine line between bullion and collector's items. The Krugerand was originally simply an ounce of gold. but the fact is, they became so ubiquitous, and such a symbol of the survivalist ethos, that they sell for more than their gold-value, and have for years. The same is true to a lesser degree with the Canadian gold maple leaf, and even the Chinese gold panda one ounce coins. In one ounce ingots, the Engelhardt company was originally about the only maker of small ingots, and so survivalists prefer that name above all others, since it's so familiar.

3. Store ingots in a safe place

A "safe deposit box" at the banks seems like a poor choice--the time you want your bullion will be exactly when there's a run on the banks, and the day when they will probably be closed.

In your bedroom is also an extremely poor choice: thieves know that the bedroom is the most popular storage-point for guns, jewelry, and financial instruments. A thief will look in these places, in this order: In the woman's panty drawer, under the matress and frame, in the master bathroom, among the towels, in the closet.

4. Buy and sell ingots over time, instead of waiting for "big news"

I learnt this the hard way. I had saved up some money for gold and bought it at a local coin dealer. In the next week, I experienced a financial windfall while on a business trip, and so bought some more gold in a distant city. The first guy had charged me 75 bucks over spot for his bullion. The next guy charged me 15 bucks over spot. . . .


I have bought and sold bullion so many times I can't remember them all. I buy steadily over months; but when you have a financial trainwreck in your life, you can sell it, usually in one business day. I've done that when I was fired, when my car died, when I changed careers, when we had a kid, etc. I think I at least broke even about every time.

.

I have a question. Has gold outpaced the stockmarket over the last six or seven years ? If so, by how much ?
Same question re: silver.

Duster

Here's a gold chart for the last 5 years:

gold chart


Here's a silver chart from 2000 AD

silver chart

Here's a page of long term financial charts

Tiny, impossible-to-read charts

You can see for yourself that it's all a question of WHEN you get in or get out of various markets, that determines your profit/(loss).


.

[edit on 11-6-2007 by dr_strangecraft]

Great thread, by the way! Kudos to the participants. Here's what I've got to add as a contribution:

Diversify Your Portfolio - As Northwolf and others stated, there are other commodities which, depending on exactly what category of Situation X there is, will be of higher value than others. Obviously, if Zombies are swarming the landscape, bullets and guns will trade at MUCH higher values than gold and silver. If there's an economic collapse, then gold and silver will maintain higher values, and if there's a natural disaster of some sort, food and potable water will have the highest values. Gold and Silver are extremely wise units of "backup currency", and in the right situations will be invaluable, but obviously not all situations, nor do I think the OP meant to imply that. You would be best served by having several barterable commodities at your disposal based on the different categories of Situation X and what would be affected.

1% Your Net Worth - Even in normal times, many financial experts recommend keeping 1% of your net worth in gold. This may not sound like very much, but truth be told, it's a really good rule of thumb. Keep in mind that the odds that tomorrow will be pretty much like today are much higher than the odds the entire country will fall to pieces. Thus, you should keep your finances geared towards gaining interest and increasing your net worth. Gold is almost never intended as a means of investing for profit, it's a means of maintaining an emergency source of financial stability during market crashes. Also, 1% of your net worth is likely to be a lot higher than the amount of ready-cash you have available if you own a house, so 1% your net worth in gold might be unattainable for some time, especially since money in the form of gold is just going to sit tight and accumulate no interest for you. If you are fortunate enough to be able to afford more gold beyond 1%, you would be best served by investing it in either something interest-bearing, or a non-perishable, barterable commodity.

Timing is Everything - When the stock market tanks, gold will typically go up in value. Reason being is that faith in the virtual and paper market is shaken, and people buy gold. Scarcity minues supply times demand equals high prices for people who want gold. That's why you save 1% of your net worth. When your stocks aren't worth the paper they're printed on, the sale of your gold should be enough to buy PRIMO stock at rock-bottom prices. This assumes you already have some cash on hand to wade through the market crash. If not, you'll be using the proceeds of your gold to eat with. However, if you hang on to your gold for too long, the gold market becomes saturated, and the price drops again. Your best time to sell your gold will be within a day of a total stock market crash, usually. By that time people are just starting to panic, and those who can afford to buy gold will do so, while at the same time there aren't too many sellers yet to meet the demand. But why would you buy stocks with your Gold money if you can? Because inevitably, the market recovers, the Large-Cap stocks recover their value, and eventually increase beyond that value. During a stock market crash, or a low in the market, is the BEST time to buy stocks. Not while the market is hot. The market, however, always prevails.

Now, what if there will never be a market again, or in the forseeable future? The same applies to Situation X.

In the beginning of Situation X, there will be people looking to make a profit off of other's misfortune. At first, they will accept cash, maybe even checks, for everything from evacuating people across border lines to selling their food, water, tools, etc. If a customer has gold while the seller is still accepting cash, you will probably get a better deal than the paper customers. Especially if you know the market value of your gold, and then point out to the seller that the paper currency market is about to go out of business. It won't be long before every seller realizes this and refuses to accept any currency except gold, silver, etc. This is especially true if there's going to be a radical shift in government, where old currency will be declared invalid or severely diminished in value. However, the period during which people will only accept gold and the time they either run out of stuff or refuse to sell for a reasonable exchange, is going to be pretty narrow. After that, you can expect to get less than pennies on the dollar for your trade, and even then it will probably be out of pity. Thus, your best time to trade your gold away is likely going to be after the initial panic, but before the seller accepts only gold.

Either that, or just bury it in the back yard and sit on it till society stabilizes enough to return gold to the rank of "commodity" rather than just "dead weight".

A handful of gold will get you farther in situation X then an equal value in cash, if for no other reason then we have all been raised in a society that places high value on gold.
Gold also has no borders. Gold bought in the US will sell just as well in Zanzibar, or anywhere else.

Gold will also be beneficial come rebuilding time, if you can keep it that long.
During the depression people were known to sell their house (with property) for a single gold coin. Must have been nice for the buyers after the crisis passed.

AT this time I have food for four years and every thing else for 25 years...

I am from Cuba and there TSHTF 45 years ago and it is still in affect... I left Cuba back in 1952 but have been going back and foward since then and I have seen what is going on in person.

The situation is so bad that if you were to find a straight nail laying on the gound it would be like findind a five dollar bill here in the states and if you have a bottle of aspirin at home then that would make you a doctor.

I have made my preparations according to what to what I have learned from there.

About extra supply for bartering.......DON'T DO IT for two reasons 1= you don't know for how long TSHTF will last and 2= you would be telling everyone about it and you would get some unwanted visitors.

If you do have to trade then do it 5-10 miles away from home and while going back home make sure that no one is following you.

About to much PM..... only 4/10 of one percent is ready for what is to come by holding PM and as long as you have PM you will be able to get what you need no matter what.

But remember this......... "To be ready is not"...Ponce

I almost forgot.......

PS: Get rid of all your paper stocks, bonds, PM IOU and so on because WTSHTF they will be worth nothing.


"If you don't hold it, you don't own it"... Ponce

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
3. Store ingots in a safe place
A "safe deposit box" at the banks seems like a poor choice--the time you want your bullion will be exactly when there's a run on the banks, and the day when they will probably be closed...In your bedroom is also an extremely poor choice: thieves know that the bedroom is the most popular storage-point for guns, jewelry, and financial instruments. A thief will look in these places, in this order: In the woman's panty drawer, under the matress and frame, in the master bathroom, among the towels, in the closet.

An idea would be to invest a few quid in one of those old kitchen beam-balance scales, spraypaint your ingots to look like the black-enamel weights and store them that way (they'd also have a practical culinary use too!)

If sit-x hits, and you have to leave home, carrying a 100lbs of gold may make you a rich person, but you'll also be a tired one. And you'll be an easy target for thieves and robbers. You can always bury it and come back later, but there are a thousand reasons that it might not happen.

Some diamonds, very small, will also barter well. There will always be those that value jewels, no matter how bad things turn. And they are easy to sew into the lining of a jacket or the cuff of your pants or whatever.

I would suggest an assortment, like some small rubies, emeralds, whatever. Put each in a real small zip-lock with an evaluation from a jeweler, so that you and the 'buyer' will have a starting point for bargaining.Be sure each slip has the weight/carat on it too.

A few small gold and silver items will round out your new portfolio. Now you can bug out and still be able to carry your BoB to survive with.

Just a random thought. When you are hiding the gold/silver in your home, it might be a good idea to split it up and hide it in three or four different places. A thief might find one place, take it, and assume that was all the gold/silver you had. Even if they don't assume that, they might miss a spot or two, and you will at least have something left. This applies to hiding anything else divisible, as well, naturally.

I haven't looked at the coin market in a long time, but when I was quite young I used to collect coins. In Canada, dimes/quarters/halfdollars/dollars were made with silver until 1967. The coins are plentiful enough, at least in collections (virtually none in circulation; haven't seen one in circulation in probably 15 years) that you can buy them for basically their weight in silver, plus whatever profit the dealer wants to make off them. Nickels haven't been made in silver here since the 1920s, so they are far more expensive, as they sell for collectibility as well as silver content. Even the halfdollars and dollars, which are no longer made (the dollars were different than the loonie is today; the loonie came out in 1987) sell essentially for silver content.

I'd imagine they shouldn't be too hard for you Americans to get, and as pointed out, no one will care where they come from, only what they weigh. I don't know when American coins quit using silver, but I think it was a lot earlier than Canada, so they might be harder to acquire.

I don't know much about gold coins, since as a child they were way out of my budget range, and out of the range of anyone giving me birthday or Christmas presents, as well. Gold coins haven't been used in a long time, so it might be hard to find some that you can get without paying for 'collectibility'.

If Sit-X happens no amount of Gold is going to save me.

I just hope the bomb lands on my nut. That way Ill be in heaven with all the women and beer while you lot will be grovelling around down here

Originally posted by NGC2736
If sit-x hits, and you have to leave home, carrying a 100lbs of gold may make you a rich person, but you'll also be a tired one.

If I had a three quarters of a million dollars in gold . . . I could pay someone to carry it for me.


Look, do you honestly have so much spare money that this is even an issue?

Some diamonds, very small, will also barter well. There will always be those that value jewels, no matter how bad things turn. And they are easy to sew into the lining of a jacket or the cuff of your pants or whatever.

On the other hand, how do you barter diamonds? Most of the people who are trying to trade you for a steak or a dozen eggs or a pint of gasoline won't have any idea how much uncut/industrial diamonds are worth. For you to barter, both sides have to have confidence in the values exchanged. I expect you'd receive pennies on the dollar. Some 22lr rounds would get traded much faster, because the people who produce the steak or eggs will recognize and value them.


The trouble with anything "collectible" is that it's value is so subjective. So what if you have an alleged note from a jeweller that says these rubies are worth thousands. I can't eat them. They won't keep me warm. How do I know its not just chunks of glass.

You'd have the same trouble unloading a bottle of '59 Dom Perignon. You'd get just as much barter for a bottle of night train and some lortab.



I have some pretty specific suggestions about preparing financially about situation x, and they are posted in the following thread, that I can't hotlink to for some reason.

"survival investing" : www.abovetopsecret.com...

This isn't the first time recently I have heard to expect silver prices going thru the roof before long. There have been times in history when silver was as valuable or more valuable than gold, and you can buy it very cheap right now. Just thought I would share this video and see if there are any thoughts from ATS'ers on this. Thanks.

www.youtube.com...

www.monex.com...



[edit on 25-3-2009 by Bombeni]

All disposable income is going on useful items for survival.

When items are acquires I may then look at silver, then gold.

Silver has other properties.

reply to post by Ponce


Whilst a good idea of prepaying for fuel < I think your under the impression that if the need arises , he'll actually have it available to you?.
This fuel gas stataion guy wil have to have a tank with 1000 gallons of fuel just for you in the back of the station, waiting.
Unfortunately its not like that , he'll use his gas and when he runs out or gets low, he refills his station, I somehow dont think that if whatever happens he'll honour his agreement with you as he won't be able to get the fuel from his supplier and therefore will not be able to give it to you.
Just my 2p's worth.
And I agree withthe gold and silver though, I really should invest in some more.