you have to eat but all there are is other people..what do you do?

The reason ATS survival forums was started was so we could educate ourselves to make it instinct rather then choice. instinct can be learned in the human animal. hence just one of the reasons we are above the animals


^^^american, the right to live/sirvive is already instinctual to us..it is our big brain and the morals we/society place on people.

it's nice that this dforum is here and i have learned tons of stuff reading these threads, but there are other realities out there. situations like the ones i laid out do hapen. they have happened. granted, not a lot but it's happened.
thats why i posted this thread. it's the like ultimate way of survival. literall, kill or be killed. eat or be eaten.

I have posted in this thread quite a bit but as of yet have not really considered the subject matter in terms of 'me'. That is until now.

After reading 5+ pages it finally occurred to me that I would not eat another human no matter the situation. Not because of the actual act of doing so, as meat is meat after all and when your starving you would be surprised at how good something tastes, even if it was something you normally didn't like.

It all comes down to humanity for me. I have no right to take an innocent life and feed on it. Whether we like it or not it is a moral dilemma and even in the most extreme situations; if we don't have our humanity or some substance of morality we may as well just be animals. Don't tell me morality is subjective because deep down we all know there is a line in the sand of right and wrong that should never be crossed.

If death is my reward for not killing and eating my neighbor then so be it!

morals are subjective though.
we all live by different moral codes. what is morally wrong to you is not to me..

Originally posted by Boondock78
morals are subjective though.
we all live by different moral codes. what is morally wrong to you is not to me..

You can say that all you want but the average person knows whether they claim it or not. I'm not talking about piddly little issues.

Yes it is JMO and I usually post a disclaimer saying that but I guess I didn't this time.

Originally posted by jbondo

Originally posted by Boondock78
morals are subjective though.
we all live by different moral codes. what is morally wrong to you is not to me..

You can say that all you want but the average person knows whether they claim it or not. I'm not talking about piddly little issues.

Yes it is JMO and I usually post a disclaimer saying that but I guess I didn't this time.

average person knows what? sure, i know what society feels is bad/immoral and some of the stuff i agree with. some i don't.
i don't need/want their rules and that pushed on me. i can decide for myself what is acceptable and what is not. that said, i am an adult and take responsibility for my actions

Never said you didn't and I'm not talking about you anyway. I said the average person. Nobody's forcing anything on you and how could they anyway? If someone is very animate in voicing their opinion to me I usually think they have very strong convictions toward that particular issue. I will certainly give them enough respect to listen and then decide for myself but I have never in my life felt as if someone was forcing anything on me. Thankfully, by giving a bit of my time now and then to listen I have learned a great deal in life.

IMO the average person has a built in moral barometer that knows right from wrong. Yes you can say everyone has a different set of morals but I believe there is not that big of a difference between person A and person Z. Again, I'm not talking about the self actualized individualist, I'm talking about the across the board average.

I don't know you, I don't know where you fit and frankly I didn't want to get into a big thing over this. I’m just discussing how I perceive human nature in relative terms.

For example: I happen to think Tony Soprano is a caustic hearted sociopath that has a completely twisted moral sensibility. He would not fit into that average I am referring to.


[edit on 9-6-2007 by jbondo]

Originally posted by jbondo

IMO the average person has a built in moral barometer that knows right from wrong. Yes you can say everyone has a different set of morals but I believe there is not that big of a difference between person A and person Z. Again, I'm not talking about the self actualized individualist, I'm talking about the across the board average.

[edit on 9-6-2007 by jbondo]

That's an excellent point. However I believe that your 'moral baromter' as you so elequently put it is at least partially based on your upbringing and surroundings. That is why certain civilisations see human sacrifice or cannabalism as normal, while others see it as abhorant. If the situation arose, your barometer may go a bit off centre. How far off it goes probably depends on your previous exposure to violence and gruesome experiences.

Originally posted by jbondo
Never said you didn't and I'm not talking about you anyway. I said the average person. Nobody's forcing anything on you and how could they anyway?
IMO the average person has a built in moral barometer that knows right from wrong. Yes you can say everyone has a different set of morals but I believe there is not that big of a difference between person A and person Z.
I don't know you, I don't know where you fit and frankly I didn't want to get into a big thing over this. I’m just discussing how I perceive human nature in relative terms.

For example: I happen to think Tony Soprano is a caustic hearted sociopath that has a completely twisted moral sensibility. He would not fit into that average I am referring to.


[edit on 9-6-2007 by jbondo]

i agree with you about the average person. when you look at people as a whole.
example, you get 500 of those average people in a group and ask them this question, most people will answer with what matches the group.
you get all those people alone, and their answers may change.
sure, as a general population we have an idea of what is right or wrong but when you get to the individual level, things change.
a lot of people think is is morally wrong to buy grass(cause it's illegal and supports terrorism and all that), but i don't agree. i smoke everyday and will continue to do so.
that is what i mean...i recognize that society(people as a whole) feel this way or that. what i am saying, is i do not.
i do not conform and i feel how i feel and i am very vocal in those feelings.
ask me anything and i will answer truthfully.
nobody is attacking me and i hope nobody feels i am doing that with them.

when i say forcing morals, lets use the cannable thing in a last resort situation as an example for this.
you feel it is morally wrong. i don't.
why do you feel how you do and i feel how i feel?
society, where/when we were brought up/things we have seen/experiences...all those things make up our moral compass.
yours is different than mine.

if you feel that way about tony, then you would probably feel that way about me...totally cool though.

thanks to all you for talking about this stuff with me.

I think that it may be difficult sitting in the comfort of your house to assess what you may do in a situation where you were left with "no other choice". That was after all the premis of which this question was written. I suppose if you would like to live in an idealist world then yes, forge for berries, eat bugs or whatever would make you feel better about answering this question. However, we are talking about survival of the fittest here my friends and I would do what ever it took to survive. Humans are animals, just the same as lions, tigers and bears. You can argue that but the truth of the matter is when put into situtations where suvival or death are your only option, your animalistic instincts will take over. What are you going to do sit there and starve to death? That could take quite some time. How long do you think you sit there starving, with no where to go, staring at a dead body or weak person that is on their death bed. I am willing to bet that it will go one of two ways, eventually the gergling in your stomach will become so intense that you will loose complete site of your moral values or you, yourself will be eatten.

[edit on 10-6-2007 by emmileigh510]

Originally posted by justanothergangster
ide rather die quickly of starvation then slowly of aids.....or something like that

Sorry but dying of starvation is not a quick thing. Once you reach a certain point the body begins to feed on itself. It is not a pleasant way to die.
As far as how far I would be willing to go to survive....I would have to draw the line at killing another human being to serve my needs. I would be able to do most things short of that to insure my survival.
In my own belief system murder is murder whatever the reason. Killing in self defense would be a whole differnt situation and I would have no problem with that.

Duster

Originally posted by Boondock78

i'd eat a human and i would kill them to eat them if i was in that senerio. simle as that. i need to live.

you?

1st thing 1st I'm not going to read 6 pages of BS kk I read your question and a few responses and put my 2 cents in.

If all my options were exhausted......You want the dirty answer uhhhh??

Well if you decided to act like a barbaric cannibal then I would have to kill you myself. First key to survival eliminate all possible threats to your life.....

I would die of starvation .

Anyway, what would be the purpose of living it it came to those kind of drastic measures?

I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I did that.

Originally posted by MagicaRose
I would die of starvation .

Anyway, what would be the purpose of living it it came to those kind of drastic measures?

I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I did that.

Agree with Tetraspace, First order of buisness is to eliminate all threats to ones survival.

What this means Magical Rose is that you in your innocence would be a threat to my survival. I would leave you to fend for yourself if we ever met. You would quickly become high maintenance. In survival there is no time or resources for high maintenance people. YOu carry your weight or carry your backside.

Probably best that you carry out the Darwin Program. This seems very crude Magical Rose but survival is survival...it is not a Magical world where people are flashdanced through lifes hurdles on other peoples time, labor, and efforts because we are all "Good People."

Any woman understanding the concept of "competition" right out of the primordal ooze understands this better than the average Flashdancing ignorant male. Most women do understand the concept and practice of "competition" much better and at a more basic primitive level than do most males.

THe intresting thing to me about this type of occult/concealed behavior among women is the abominable ignornace of most men about it. What a stupid bunch of men out here.
IN situation X I will "NOT " be flashdancing a bunch of women and kids or even other high maintenance males thorugh lifes hurdles at my expense. In their naivity they will make others expendable and disposable while they plod on as if nothing has changed.
I will choose with whom I associate and invest my time and resources...not by any public feel good standards but by my own. This has not changed with me even today ..in good times.

Astonishing to me that people tend to think the way we live is normal for this world..it is not. IT can go back feral at the drop of a pin. People have to be educated not to understand this is the real world of which I speak..not the sugar coated, icing covered world. Underneath it is still a cesspool...that history records it always was and is today.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by Tetraspace

Originally posted by Boondock78

i'd eat a human and i would kill them to eat them if i was in that senerio. simle as that. i need to live.

you?

1st thing 1st I'm not going to read 6 pages of BS kk I read your question and a few responses and put my 2 cents in.

If all my options were exhausted......You want the dirty answer uhhhh??

Well if you decided to act like a barbaric cannibal then I would have to kill you myself. First key to survival eliminate all possible threats to your life.....

so you don't read the threads?
nice........yeah, i want the dirty answer....i always do my best to read all the posts even if there is 15 pages....too ba you don't do the same

Originally posted by Boondock78

Originally posted by Tetraspace

Originally posted by Boondock78

so you don't read the threads?
nice........yeah, i want the dirty answer....i always do my best to read all the posts even if there is 15 pages....too ba you don't do the same

I don't have time, I read enough to get a general idea.

Originally posted by Boondock78
if you feel that way about tony, then you would probably feel that way about me...totally cool though.

thanks to all you for talking about this stuff with me.

Wait, are you saying that you have a kinship of sorts with a paranoid, twisted, sociopathic, narcissistic killer?

I already figured you for being outside the norm but not in that company.

Please tell me that you are not like him.

For those who would rather starve to death than resort to cannibalism...you'll be the first to go in my cooking pot because:

A) You lack the will to fight and survive, no matter what you must do to stay alive
B) With you out of the way, there will be a larger share of resources for my tribe to get on with surviving and procreating the next generation of survivors

...this is the immutable law of mother nature

I'm not being rude to those who couldn't stomach the idea of eating their fellow man, but if in this hypothetical situation I see an opportunity to survive, I'll take it no matter what...whether steal your food, or hunt you down for meals to keep myself and my tribe strong for the next month.

I've been homeless and starving on the streets once in my life, in my late teens, and unless you have experienced such a thing, you don't realise just how far you will go to stay alive and fed...I even burgled a house I was that hungry and desperate, nothing else was taken apart from a cupboard full of food.

Originally posted by citizen smith
For those who would rather starve to death than resort to cannibalism...you'll be the first to go in my cooking pot because:

A) You lack the will to fight and survive, no matter what you must do to stay alive

I think you have your priorities mixed up. It has nothing to do with will, it has to do with separating us from the animals.

I too have been in a position of starvation and was able to use my intelligence and capabilities to survive without committing a crime or doing something I felt was wrong.

I'm not judging you for what you did by any means.

Perhaps the word 'will' was a wrong choice, and should have been 'instinct'

We are animals deep down instinctively even though we have the capacity for higher thinking than the rest of the animal kingdom...we fight for territory, mates, resources, etc...and mostly governed by that little part of the primaeval brain at the back of the skull just above the top of the spinal cord and it is always the hardiest and last part to go when we die.

I'd never ever have thought to commit a crime to feed myself before I found myself in that dire position, but in ending up in that situation as i described, needs must, I resorted to my animal-side to 'hunt' and took the easiest of the opportunities available to me

Whether you judge my actions or not...you took the easiest opportunity to put food in your belly and stay alive, as did I

Originally posted by citizen smith
Whether you judge my actions or not...you took the easiest opportunity to put food in your belly and stay alive, as did I

Really? You have no idea what I did to survive as I didn't go into any detail.

If you want to know what I did I will tell you.

Hey mister, can I sweep your lot for a sandwich? Is what I did and similar things. One guy gave me a whole roasted turkey for cleaning up garbage in the alley behind his restaurant.