Molten metal vs. Molten steel

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam

Not at all - it's a crucial lack of understanding. Confusing temperature with heat is like confusing power and energy. It leads to you making incorrect conclusions. "Was exposed to temps" is meaningless unless you know how much energy the temperature source can deliver and over what timeframe the temperatures were present.

Whatever they meant, i think we can assume from the statement there were extreme temperatures present for an unknown duration, and the exposure to said temperatures caused the result.

Now when you start talking about being exposed to the heat flash of a nuke at close range, you're back into the point I'm trying to make. It doesn't heat it all the way through instantaneously to the same temperature. With a heat flash, you get heat transfer into a beam faster than the beam can transport it, so there's a huge temperature gradient. The surface layers ablate, the "rind" if you will softens but the core may remain cool for several milliseconds, it depends on the steel, its thickness, the energy delivery rate and a host of secondary factors. But the issue is that the outer surface is going to be damaged, and if bent while in that condition the "rind" will become plastic and "ripple" in the bend area. There's a weird annealing pattern you see also with the outer part annealed and grain remaining in the center.

What your saying does make an awful lot of sense.

I wonder if perhaps whatever the infamous red mercury is then it could be the culprit for persistant heat source, rather than the bomb itself. I have heard different stories as to what red mercury actually is but if it can get a fusion reaction going, who knows what sort of residual it may leave and/or how long it persists.

Do you see any steel "splats" on the surface, or saggy melted looking structural steel?

Prof. S. Jones had a few pictures showing something like that.

Originally posted by VicRH
I wonder if perhaps whatever the infamous red mercury is then it could be the culprit for persistant heat source, rather than the bomb itself. I have heard different stories as to what red mercury actually is but if it can get a fusion reaction going, who knows what sort of residual it may leave and/or how long it persists.

I've heard the old-timers at my first/last 9-5 say that "red mercury" was 60's codespeak for lithium deuteride. Cohen apparently doesn't think so (never met him) and he would have been around then. I don't know what to think about it, but I'm skeptical that it exists.

At any rate, it would be finely spread if any was left after being in a fusion explosion, so the rate of heat generation from it would have to be ungodly. I mean, a molecule here and there might generate some energy but I would expect it to be more evenly distributed than in pools.

Prof. S. Jones had a few pictures showing something like that.

Hey, if you've got some link to that I'd love to see it. I've looked at WTC photos until I'm sick of them. All the melty stuff I see is stuff that looks like slag left after someone used an oxyacetylene torch like the infamous slash-cut beams.

This is probably the best one, however I am fairly sure there are many more out there but they are being withheld from the public domain for various reasons.



Thermal hotspots







I think the last image pretty much goes to show there was molten iron before the collapse so it goes to show that atleast some of it wasn't generated by cooking away in the pile.

Video of last image:



[edit on 28-6-2007 by VicRH]

Cool photo on the first link - I see yellow but what IS that. I see a light piece of steel lying across the first spot and it's not molten. Is that just light from a fire under the rubble, do you think?

As far as the stuff pouring out, isn't that backup batteries melting down?

I wish they'd gotten samples of all this stuff somehow. It's frustrating not knowing what it is. But at the point in time that's pouring out, the building hadn't started falling apart yet - it really couldn't be your nuke at that point, right? You've still got live people in the holes then.

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam
Cool photo on the first link - I see yellow but what IS that. I see a light piece of steel lying across the first spot and it's not molten. Is that just light from a fire under the rubble, do you think?

Not sure but i think that maybe cladding from the building. In the foreground could well be paper burning, but just behind it is something very odd and looks like it could be a partially melted cladding.. or something.

As far as the stuff pouring out, isn't that backup batteries melting down?

I don't know, but it looks a lot like thermite.

I think the feds probably know what sort of explosives they were and its all classified.

With the thermal hot spots picture, we have two different dates. The first with the hot spots are 16th sept, 5 days had already passed. The next shows they have sufficently cooled but the 23rd which indicates it wasn't some on going temperature, its more like areas in the pile were cooling over that period.

I seem to remember right after /as seen on t.v. water being shot on the smokeing wreakage of the two towers to put out the fires..well f--- me runnig if i didnt work in a foundry,,and i can tell you...you git one drop of water near molten metal and you got one hell of a bang on your hands..so tell me why your crime sean clean-up didnt have one of those?..yea photo shopped pics of cranesl picking up steel beams melting at one end!...sheesh...give my reality a break.!its been 6 years since the dirty deeds been done..and you still dance to your dead duck pres..you do know i bought a grill at wallmart made from the recycled steel from the world trade center..and damm'ed if it didnt melt when i put a macth to it...so disprove me on that..iv got 20 jews and a butt load of goy to take you to a stacked suppream court to tell you differnt....i hope this puts an end to this senceless thred....dear mods..tell these jokers there aint jack # to any thing there throwing out..lest we all belive in the thrimite fairy..or even worse..the pancake theroy....

Wittleryouth,

No offense when I say this, but could you be a little less chaotic with your sentence structure. I have no idea what you said. I'm aware that English could be your 2nd or 3rd language. I just couldn't grasp what you were saying. I did get that you've worked in a foundary before. Thanks.

sorry for the rant..and yes i did work in a foundry..it used electric ark rods to melt iron/steel..i drove a fork lift to move the final castings to the grinder people..it was a brutal dirty job..like something right out of dantas hell..i saw some pretty scarry acidents there..moltin metal iv seen first hand..so i know whats real and whats fantasy....one...it takes enormus energy to melt steel..one bacth would take 20 mins. to compleatly melt befor hit the poreing floor..2. what ever hit the twin towers should be put to peacefull use..like melting steel at a foundry so it dosnt tax our planits finite resorses...how wrong is that kinda thinking???but no a cabal off nut jobs git too show it off and terrorize the world...i cant wait for that next bacth of recycled steel to come back from shanghi and whacth that metal book shelf i bought from wall-mart pankake in on its own self...im dieing hear folks...crickets.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by VicRH
I think the last image pretty much goes to show there was molten iron before the collapse so it goes to show that atleast some of it wasn't generated by cooking away in the pile.

Pretty much? Was this material analyzed to determine exactly what kind of material it is? If so, please forward me a source.

Unless you can prove what this material was...it shows nothing.

I would be really curious on what might have caused the steele to melt.