Will the real John Lear please stand up?

Can´t wait to hear John´s comment on this one...

As far as i can see he has in no way said he will stay away from posting at ATS. The refered post was made back in 04 at another board and as you all know John has been pretty active around here the last months

Still quite curious about the real reason for the FF post.
Clearly he either made a false statment or something revoke his interest in the subject.

Edit : spelling error...

[edit on 5-6-2007 by tomra]

admin edit: Childish, Churlish, RUDE post deleted and member post banned until (s)he can learn how to interact like a grown up. :@@


[edit on 6-5-2007 by Springer]

Thats It!

This has gone too far, this stuff is very old news and has been dealt with already. How can you just and make a thread like this and not even do your research properly. Obviously you have done some kind of research to get this, to find what you found, but why stop there? Why stop the research that you where already doing, knowing that you are digging up the past and that something has dramatically changed from then until now.

Maybe I should spell it out for you "READ THE DAM POSTS" go and find out why John Lear is here now on ATS after he said that stuff a long time ago. What im trying to say is, do your research properly - don't just stop in the middle of your research and then come here and reek havoc.

I may be new to ATS myself but I have done 5 years of my own personal research before I came here, so I know how to do my research. I also understand the big picture and John Lear is a very important person in the whole scheme of things and he deserves a good amount of respect.

So to the rest of you who are new or have not yet done your own research, this is old news and John Lear is not leaving ATS or anything like that.

If everybody had to do there own research for every topic discussed here at ATS there would be no need for this forum.

I wouldn't mind knowing what made John backtrack so aggressively and then change his mind?

I dont think theres anything to see here, old news that was explained in another thread. John obviously had his reasons. His knockers will take anything they can get, Jealous, bitter people imo.
Nothing to see here.

Originally posted by Fowl Play
I dont think theres anything to see here, old news that was explained in another thread. John obviously had his reasons. His knockers will take anything they can get, Jealous, bitter people imo.

Nothing to see here.

Thanks for backing me up on this one Fowl Play.

I don't believe or agree with John's view on things, but i do believe he is a decent person who is only trying to do what he feels is right and tell what he thinks is the truth.

There is really no need to attack him or try to catch him out. If you don't agree with him, move on. I look at some of the things he posts, such as the soul tower, and laugh, but i accept that that is his opinion and it is quite acceptable.

He even has a disclaimer regarding his posts in his signature, so just leave the poor guy alone.

I really enjoy listening to John Lears ideas, some things that make me
go WTF is his idea that there is oxygen on the moon and that the moon has an atmosphere.

The soul catcher idea is a little out there aswell. Other than that he has some interesting information, problem is some of his ideas are only good for discrediting some of his other theorys.

I don't know if any of you know anything at all about psychology, but people tend to be far more likely to tell the truth--even if said truth is also surrounded by subtle, possibly unconscious falsities--when they're under a great deal of stress. This is especially true when a person has constructed an elaborate lie in, for instance, a thinly veiled attempt to discredit an entire group of people and draw attention to himself.

I'd say that a family emergency would quite easily qualify as a stressful situation.

This is, of course, just my opinion, but I have seen absolutely nothing that would make me believe a single word John Lear has ever said on the subjects of UFOs and aliens. I also have a very hard time understanding why other people would choose to support and protect him at every turn.

john got his information from people he deems credible.. he's actually talked to them.. and out of that, he comes up with information he believes is true. so he relays his opinion to this message board.. where the majority then begins verbally beating him down. obviously he has no proof for his claims other than what he finds credible in first hand convo with certain people, also through what he's experienced. but at the same time, obviously he's a sincere man who just wants to input his opinion like the rest of us. he can only say where he got his sources from, and if he genuinely believes that to be true, he posts it..

if i were in his position, and i talked with certain people, from lazar to whoever else, and out of it got some information, or led me to a conclusion about what i believed.. id share my opinion on here too

it's just funny how some poeple will go extended lengths to discredit this man. they obviously have some gripe. it's his opinion, and if you don't believe it.. fine, state your opinion.. but come on, do it in a professional or atleast civilized manner.. rather than beating him down or going at any length to discredit the man, including looking for posts made 3 or so years ago.

his answer as to why he did that satisfying. i don't think anyone would use their daughter getting side-swiped as a scape goat for an incident like that. just my opinion

[edit on 5-6-2007 by Malakai]

Originally posted by Malakai
it's just funny how some poeple will go extended lengths to discredit this man. they obviously have some gripe. it's his opinion, and if you don't believe it.. fine, state your opinion.. but come on, do it in a professional or atleast civilized manner.. rather than beating him down or going at any length to discredit the man, including looking for posts made 3 or so years ago.

hallelujah, holla back

you guys really spend a lot of time trying to bring down lears credibility

if you dont like what he says you can easily not click on his forum or just ignore him

i think some of the people on this forum could be doing a lot of research of their own during the time they spend trying to "debunk" lears opinions

hes even got a disclaimer in his signature.. give it up already

Some A.T.S. members evidently don't understand how fortunate we are to have a man the caliber of John Lear as a conspiracy master. That is most unfortunate for them. If you don't like John's thoughts and comments, don't read them. Use your ignore button, go debate global warming or whether Bush. Rumsfeld and the Queen are Reptilians.....

I admire Mr. Lear, his experience, knowledge and accomplishments. If he decided to leave A.T.S. it would hurt the entire membership. John deserves respect and I am appalled that some members dis him.

Please, let's try to do better, people. John is a treasure, whether you like his beliefs or not.



[edit on 6/5/2007 by TheAvenger]

"TheAvenger" has NAILED IT! READ HIS/HER words and TAKE THEM TO HEART!

Springer...

[edit on 6-5-2007 by Springer]

Those who ignore (deny?) history are doomed to repeat it?

INTERVIEW WITH BILL MOORE

Q: This has been gone over many times, but what is it that pissed off so many people in Las Vegas at MUFON 1989?

MOORE: I think that they were outraged that someone would get up there and tell them that they'd been had.

Q: You don't think that could have happened to you?

MOORE: Sure it could have. And maybe it has. That was exactly the point. If they (government agencies) could manipulate a situation like the Bennewitz affair the way they did, and plant information which was at that point the hottest thing in the UFO grapevine, which a lot of people were really interested in and remain interested in to this day...

Q: Bennewitz was the one who thought he was receiving highly secret transmissions from an air force base in New Mexico, and was scared by what he heard or thought he heard?

MOORE: Yes. That was it. The whole story of Government/ alien involvement, treaties with aliens, underground bases, a plot to take over the planet, implants, two different races of aliens, one hostile and one friendly, etc. was all cooked up by the counter-intelligence people for the purpose of discrediting Bennewitz. He bought it, and a lot of other people in the UFO community bought it, and they continue to buy it today. All of that stuff was cooked up as part of the operation against Bennewitz. Bennewitz was meeting with everybody who was anybody and telling that story to anyone who would listen. John Lear, and ultimately through him to Bill Cooper, Bill English, Wendelle Stevens...they all revolved around that information. It was the kind of paranoia that they wanted to hear. And so here's John Lear, organizer and host of the conference in Vegas, one of the chief proponents of that kind of information, staking his so-called reputation on the fact that it was all true. Linda Howe has gotten in over her head over it, all those people prepared to tell their stories, and become important forces for good in the UFO research community. Then I get up and tell them, "Folks, you've been had. And here's how I know. It isn't that I've heard it, I was part of it. I was there. I watched it happen. I knew who was doing it, and I was privy to it."

Originally posted by tombangeltawhy does anybody need to be silenced.

Wow are you ever naive.

"Since 1947 over two-hundred UFO researchers have died under mysterious circumstances...
ATS Report www.abovetopsecret.com...

And that's not counting the insiders who have leak info, or the "fringe" scientists who tried to bring us new technology that THEY didn't want us to have.

:shk:

Originally posted by tombangelta
I wouldn't mind knowing what made John backtrack so aggressively and then change his mind?

Research aside, you could just try ASKING HIM.. afterall he is active in many threads...

And all you guys starting John Lear threads... Keep up the good work! It just keeps the interest going You know what they say, there is no such thing as bad press

Originally posted by Black Skyline
WTF is his idea that there is oxygen on the moon and that the moon has an atmosphere.

Yeah sure call the man crazy... but please explain to me WHY NASA and Boston University both believe there IS an atmosphere???

To be sure the amount of oxygen is in question, but there IS an atmosphere. And I recall John mentioning in one thread that it may be yellow...

Well the amount of sodium in the lunar atmosphere would actually make it appear dull yellow...

You guys are quick to make blanket statements without any research at all. Does that not make you just as guilty as you claim John to be about spreading nonsense?

Lunar Atmosphere

:bash:

Great find hangerateteen

Now if this can be believed then it leaves a lot of people out there having been conned.

Is there any video material of this 1989 conference available?

Originally posted by hangerateteen
Those who ignore (deny?) history are doomed to repeat it?

I wont quote entire post, so see above for the external quote.
I was very interested in what was said, so i did a bit of looking.

I kinda feel sorry for Paul Bennewitz.

This was hardly the end of the Bennewitz affair. For most of the 1980s, Doty and/or ufologist William Moore would relate mostly spurious information to Bennewitz as part of a disinformation campaign designed to distract him from secret military projects at Kirtland. The result was that, over the years, Bennewitz grew ever more paranoid, and his health deteriorated so badly that he had a nervous breakdown.

Disinformation Claims

The Mutual UFO Network held their 1989 annual convention in Las Vegas, Nevada, on July 1, 1989

Ufologist William Moore was scheduled as the main speaker, and he generated controversy even before his appearance: He refused to submit his paper for review prior to the convention, and also announced that he would not answer any follow-up questions as was common practice. Unlike most of the convention's attendees, Moore did not stay at the same hotel that was hosting the convention.

When he spoke, Moore said that he and others had been part of an elaborate, long-term disinformation campaign begun primarily to discredit Paul Bennewitz: "My role in the affair ... was primarily that of a freelancer providing information on Paul's (Bennewitz) current thinking and activities." (Clark, 1998, 163) Air Force Sergeant Richard C. Doty was also involved, said Moore, though Moore thought Doty was "simply a pawn in a much larger game, as was I." (Clark, 1998, 163) One of their goals, Moore said, was to disseminate information and watch as it was passed from person to person in order to study how information was circulated in UFO enthusiast subcultures. Moore further reported that "he played a part in having Bennewitz involuntarily committed to the New Mexico State Mental Hospital on three separate occasions."

Moore said that he "was in a rather unique position" in the disinformation campaign: "judging by the positions of the people I knew to be directly involved in it, [the disinformation] definitely had something to do with national security. There was no way I was going to allow the opportunity to pass me by ... I would play the disinformation game, get my hands dirty just often enough to lead those directing the process into believing I was doing what they wanted me to do, and all the while continuing to burrow my way into the matrix so as to learn as much as possible about who was directing it and why."

Once he finished the speech, Moore immediately left the hotel. He left Las Vegas that same night.

Moore's claims sent shock waves through the small, tight-knit UFO community, which remains divided as to the reliability of his assertions.

I agree that if you dont like what you hear from John, dont listen.
i feel i can have my opinion and still be civil.

I would love to know John's opinion on the above comments made by Bill Moore.

If the above comments are true, wouldnt that expose alot of what is bounded around in Ufology as untrue?

I've stated that I thought the moon had an atmosphere in the past, in John Lears Moon Thread, albeit a thin atmosphere and one made up of SODIUM and POTASSIUM. As far as it being primarily oxygen, the evidence so far does NOT point to this as the case. Mars too has an atmosphere, consisting primarily of CO^2, NOT OXYGEN.

In fact many comets have atmosphere as is well documented, along with some moons in our solar system. Our moons atmosphere actually resembles atmosphere that many comets have, one of a sodium makeup. The atmosphere is more likely just made up of mineral atoms struck off from impact of the lunar geology and soil and by energetic particles from the sun, ion wind etc.

But the speculation is what I think most of the responders here are irked about concerning JL and his statements. I myself enjoy some of John Lears stories and such, but I can filter some of what he says out, some others may not have the technical side to them to do this with what John Lear says...Just my take on the topic.

You have to admit, JL has a sense of humor, I laughed out loud when I read this concerning his much touted "soul collector on the moon theory" which was not found to be true by JL, well because there never was any evidence for the thing being a SOUL COLLECTOR any way, except for his belief in SLEEPER's statements...

Original Quote by Sleeper

Originally posted by sleeper
The tower which I can’t comment on as you have already mentioned is not a soul collector, but they told me there was no harm in leaving that idea out there, so I did.

and Johns response...

Originally posted by johnlear
No harm? No harm? I've been telling everybody its a soul collector. Now what do I tell them? Its NOT a soul collector? Everybody is going to think I'm nuts!

[edit on 6-6-2007 by greatlakes]