Open Question: Evolution

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by HAL the bot

And where the heck did you see the force of gravity?! I want to see it too!

[edit on 5-6-2007 by HAL the bot]

Well, if your computer is floating around the room and not being affected by gravity, I apologize.

That's why I specifically said the force of gravity, which IS invisible and also Known as Gravitation. Things being pulled down can be easily explained.

And technically all science is useful.

But to be more on-topic, any one who doesn't want the sweatshop workers of Asia and South America taking his job needs to Know some complex skill. Science is a pretty complicated business, and is needed in order to understand something beyond the manual-task level.


[edit on 5-6-2007 by HAL the bot]

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by intrepid
How so?

it explains epidemiology, deals with how certain organs developed and various other questons. it asks the

noun: the branch of medical science dealing with the transmission and control of disease

Well, I'm at a loss to understand the link between those two. Then again, I don't see evolution as an exact science.

my point is that evolution is about as useful to the everyday life of the average man as the periodic table. i don't need to know that helium is made up of 2 protons to surivive.

Here's where we disagree.

we should really just teach our children as much as we can

Agreed.

BTW, I saw your other thread, are you an atheist?

Originally posted by bodrul
What are your views on evolution and teaching it in schools?

Evolution is both science and history, and should be taught as such in science and history classes.

Creationism is religion, and thus should be taught in theological classes.

I am a firm believer in both God and Evolution. The evidence for evolution is frankly, too conclusive to simply dismiss as mere ponderance. Living things adapt to meet their environment, and when enough things adapt for enough generations, they evolve over the course of time to the point of offspring being born better suited for the environment their ancestors lived in.

I think a large part of the problem that some people have with evolution is that they have never read a real book on it, but merely gone on what their minister or priest has stated about it.

Personally, I see absolutely no reason why one can't even consider the possibility that if God made everything in perfection, then part of that perfection includes the ability of species to evolve.

Further, those who would demand that creationism be taught in school need to realize that there are many theories on Creationism in regards to Genesis alone, to say nothing of the thousands of other theories on Creation of the other religions on Earth.

My suggested compromise is this: keep Evolution taught as scholars in the fields of science and anthropology suggest. In addition to that, offer a "Theology" class of some sort in schools that covers the basics of the major religions on Earth, as well as their individual theories on how the Earth and her denizens came about.

Especially in light of the recent rise in violent religious extremism, I think our nation's children would greatly benefit from understanding where other people in the world are coming from, as well as being exposed to other points of view. I think part of the reason for so many of our current troubles is that we shy away from religion as some sort of horrific tar baby that will mire us all in petty squabbles, when in fact, we can learn a lot from each other.

So perhaps one semester the Theology class is all about Christianity. Here's what Baptists think, here's the sects of Baptists, here's Catholics, here's the different sects of Catholicism, here's Methodists, Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. I mean, how many on ATS, right now, without using the WWW, tell me the primary differences between just the Christian faiths other than stereotypes?

Probably there's at least one person on ATS who can, but the vast majority know nothing of religions other than their own and whichever other ones they've personally experienced. The next semester of Theology might be on Islam, and the various sects, and so forth, the next semester Judaism, etc, etc,

Religion is an important part of nearly every country's history. It is a culturally driving force that has historically caused the rise and fall of nations. The exclusion of it would be a real shame and loss as to the reasons for much of history happening, and I think a regular class to educate the precepts of all religions would be a fine idea to help the next generation get along with one another.

That does not, however, make it a science, nor does it invalidate the value of evolution, the study of it, and the neccessity to teach it. I would no sooner demand they stop teaching evolution in lieu of creationism than I would demand they replace the school nurse with a faith healer, or that physics classes be replaced with the study of miracles.

Originally posted by intrepid
noun: the branch of medical science dealing with the transmission and control of disease

Well, I'm at a loss to understand the link between those two. Then again, I don't see evolution as an exact science.

diseases evolve... quite rapidly in fact. it's why we have to make new
vaccines and why we're afraid of a bird virus becoming a human virus.

without evolution medical science is kind of dead in the water.

Here's where we disagree.

how often is the average person going to need to know the atomic weight of cobalt?

we should really just teach our children as much as we can

Agreed.

well, that's always good.

BTW, I saw your other thread, are you an atheist?

yes

My view on evolution is that it is a solid theory based on the evidence available to us so far and all those who contradict it are just trying to be fashionably scientific by grasping at straws.

I beleive that it should be taught in schools as part of science, just as 1+1 = 2 is taught in elementary math. Religion should be kept out of schools for the sake of objectivity and allowing objectivity into the lives of children. Parents who wish not to let their children learn evolution must be asked to home tutor their kids instead of forcing the majority who do beleive that it took more than 6 days to create this universe. Creationism is NOT science but faith fancied up and should be treated as such.

Each parent has their own yardstick on morality, faith etc, these should be taught at home, thats why parents exist. School should be a place to learn facts and an outlet for creative thought besides a place of sport and games.

I was educated on both.

We learned both the Religious version, in fact, I know the Hindi, Judeo version and a few others from School. I also was taught evolution and counter arguements too evolution.

It doesn't do any harm for people to be given everything they can do. Granted time does come into this and we were unable to cover every aspect, but that is all that should come into it.

If adults do not like a religious view point in school - grow up. If religious people do not like a non-religious view point - grow up.

Originally posted by Odium
If adults do not like a religious view point in school - grow up.

It's not about what is liked or not, Public schools are part of the government,
and the Constitution clearly says that there is a separation between government and
religion, and therefore teaching religion in schools violates the Constitution.

Originally posted by iori_komei
It's not about what is liked or not, Public schools are part of the government, and the Constitution clearly says that there is a separation between government and religion, and therefore teaching religion in schools violates the Constitution.

Does it?

I think you'll find the First Amendment says: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...

If the Government does not favour one Religion over the other, than there's not a problem. You just seem to have a problem with Religion being taught, we spent 8 classes on each Religion during Year 7 to 9: We were taught about Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, etc, over the space of 3 years.

We treated them equally.

Fact is, it doesn't ever say you can't be educated about Religion. Proove me wrong.

All that it is meant to do is:
A) to ensures that religious beliefs - private or organized - are removed from attempted government control.

B) That the government does not get involved with enforcing, mandating, or promoting particular religious doctrines.

If neither of that is done there's no problem.

If religion is taught as science than there is a problem. When they teach something be it faith or fact, there shouldnt be an attempt to deceive the student as to which is which. Doing so only confuses the child.

Teaching various religions in schools is again ludicrous, the school doesnt not make any promise to accommodate every antiquated idea or belief. If so then there would be no end to the madness. You cant have half the school working like a madrassa and the other half run like a missionary school. That is just a circus. Each person has their own faith and their own morals. The school can and should only accommodate the majority's values everything else is upto the individual parents to inculcate onto their kids.

Personally, schools should spend less time on trivia like religion and concentrate more on their subjects. The present standards in school today are pathetic at best and boring kids with religion should be their last priority.

I think that both sides should be taught in schools, and that children should be allowed to write an essay about which one they think is more accurate. Then they should debate the issue in class, with Oxford-Style rules however. We don't want them getting out of control, like most adults seem to on this issue. I'd even be so willing as to entertain the possibility of both being possible.

There's an popular phrase that I'm reminded of: "Truly amazing, the mind of a child is." - Yoda

TheBorg

Originally posted by bodrul
What are your views on evolution and teaching it in schools?

Natural selection is fine to be taught in all of the schools. Evolution is a theory and should be taught as such .. one theory among many. We use the Catholic School System therefore natural selection AND GOD are both discussed. Evolution is taught as one theory of how God may have made humans. I like it taught like this.

As for the godless public schools??? That's up to those who attend them.