Where do you Stand on Gay Marriage?

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by whaaa No, the idea of marriage was rendered useless when the idea of "divorce" became the norm with little regard for for the children except to use them as bargaining chips by the parents.

Nonsense. I am a divorced, now remarried father of two and my children were never treated in such a manner. Opinions are fine, but sweeping generalizations are nothing but hot air. Indeed, I take offense at the notion.

Tough,

I was used as a bargaining chip when my folks split up. And there wouldn't be any sweeping generalizations if there wasn't ample evidence to support them.

edit: Good for you JC. You are to be commended for approach to marriage and the family.

[edit on 6-6-2007 by whaaa]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic


You seem have a preconceived idea of the institution of marriage as lasting forever and having 2.3 children and living in the suburbs happily ever after (without divorce) and that just doesn't apply to everyone! That doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with marriage. It's fine. In my opinion, it's glorious!

I don't want to abolish marriage. If you don't like it, don't participate in it! But keeping others from having something they want simply because YOU deem it "useless" to you is a terrible thing to do, IMO.

You are right of course BH. And I really don't think marriage is "useless" for gays, hetero, tranny or anyone else that chooses that path.

Maybe I shouldn't even be discussing marriage at all, being as how I managed to screw up every marriage I was involved in. I am just thankful that
none of my unions resulted in any kids as I probably would have been as bad a parent as I was a husband.

However I have made amends and now all of my ex's [3] and I are like one big, happy family with their current spouses and kids. It's not inconceivable that I may one day shoot for #4; I have learned from my mistakes.

I also feel blessed that I was the guy that brought all the above folks together to create a bond of fellowship & friendship from what basically was
my disfunctional view of the man/woman relationship.

Namaste
whaaa


[edit on 6-6-2007 by whaaa]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by chissler
There are plenty of men and women out there who are absolutely miserable in their marriages. Why can't two men, or two women, have that same misery? Why not? Because of some terminology that was written way back when? Or because it makes us uncomfortable.

Chissler, the limitations on marriage have nothing to do with bigotry, prejudice, happiness or feeling comfortable.

It has everything to do with why society should accept the burden of sanctioning marriage between two classes of people whose union holds no possibility of benefit for society.

I have come to the conclusion that the concept of marriage has been completely lost in the last 50 years and that it is time to abandon it completely and let the chips fall where they may.

Marriage was rendered useless many years ago when the government took on the responsibility of funding children born out of wedlock.

It is simply time to abandon marriage and let people set up living arrangements as they please, without the expectation that any social benefit will accrue thereunto.

When so many people exhibit such ignorance regarding one of the most basic institutions, then it's time to pull the plug from it, especially when one considers how many people are made so miserable by it. Marriage is worse than salvery, it would seem.

ABOLISH MARRIAGE!


[edit on 2007/6/6 by GradyPhilpott]

Hrmm... I need to find a cure for Bitter-Old-Man syndrome!! YES! That will make me RICH!! ... and maybe help this country be a better place to live in...

Again, as I said before... your ideas ARE based on faith... you try to disguise them with your ad hoc 'statistics' - but that statement you made about homosexual couples adopting being equal to child abuse?!... umm... you need some help... open your eyes, look around you... you probably have a neighbor or two.. or three... that are in that situation... the child will be loved by a loving family regardless of what sex(es) the parent couple are...

Molesters hurt children regardless of their sex or sexual orientation - that is a completely separate issue... and should be dealt with as such... same with bestiality.. the animal essentially replaces the child - without consent, it is abuse... as for a human loving something inanimate (automobile, etc)... umm... whatever... let them... that's weird for most of us, but who is it hurting?

You mention Jesus in one of the posts near the beginning of this topic... You obviously have some sort of religious opposition to same-sex marriage... though you pretend to dismiss that with your later statements... just like the poster a few up stated... gay marriage was made 'legal' in MA... and the sky didn't fall...

So things change... such is life... deal with it... or move on...

[Edit for formatting]

[edit on 9-6-2007 by Harlowe JNkinz]

I don't think you're actually reading this thread.

I said my opinions of what government should do relative to marriage had nothing to do with religion. That's exactly what I meant.

The social benefits of marriage have nothing to do with how marriage is viewed by any religion.

Religion may go a long way toward the maintenance of marriages, but that effect seems to have dwindled to practically nil.

I know it won't do any good, since you're not reading the thread, anyway, but here's the exchange that involved Jesus:

Originally posted by grover
Jesus enjoined us to love. What is important is that we love...the gender of who we love is incidental.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
We're not talking about love, in the sense that Jesus spoke of. We're talking about marriage.

Is that a little more clear, now?

[edit on 2007/6/9 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I don't think you're actually reading this thread.

I said my opinions of what government should do relative to marriage had nothing to do with religion. That's exactly what I meant.

The social benefits of marriage have nothing to do with how marriage is viewed by any religion.

Religion may go a long way toward the maintenance of marriages, but that effect seems to have dwindled to practically nil.

I know it won't do any good, since you're not reading the thread, anyway, but here's the exchange that involved Jesus:

Originally posted by grover
Jesus enjoined us to love. What is important is that we love...the gender of who we love is incidental.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
We're not talking about love, in the sense that Jesus spoke of. We're talking about marriage.

Is that a little more clear, now?

[edit on 2007/6/9 by GradyPhilpott]

The social benefits of gay marriage would be simply to create a society of tolerance... it would not hurt anyone... except for the beliefs of those who feel that it is dirty or sinful...

Consensual relationships are the business of the two involved in said relationship... gay couples, as they are contributing to the economy in the same way a married heterosexual couple are, should enjoy the same rights as the heterosexual couples who might be uncomfortable with the idea (or single heterosexual persons who might be uncomfortable with the idea [as we are speaking of benefits of married couples, that point becomes moot])... One should marry who one wishes to marry (so long as both parties are consenting adults - as with legal heterosexual coupling)...

There's a proliferation of our species on this world... the absence of the 'natural birth' additions to the race would not hurt our already overpopulated planet... and the adoption of children who would otherwise live without parents (or with parents who would be abusive, or for any other reason one might be(come) orphaned) seems rather humane to me... nothing even RESEMBLING abuse nor exploitation...

[Edit to clarify statement]

[edit on 9-6-2007 by Harlowe JNkinz]

Originally posted by Harlowe JNkinz
Consensual relationships are the business of the two involved in said relationship...

No arguments there, but marriage is the business of society and in our society that means the government, as we are a government of the people, by the people and for the people, but since you haven't read the thread, you haven't followed my statements regarding this.

Still, insofar as there seems to be an enormous lack of basic understanding of this most basic of social institutions, it is time for government to abolish the institution at all levels.

That way the playing field will be leveled and then all sexual unions can be solemnized in whatever manner desired, or not, without licenses or waiting periods or blood tests, etc., and of course, since there will be no marriages, there can be no divorces.

Of course, many lawyers will die either by starvation or from blunt force trauma or other grisly means as they scramble to find honest work in competition with their colleagues.


[edit on 2007/6/9 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by MSHARPE2012
Where do you Stand on Gay Marriage

I don't care.

Just don't try to push it in the churches that don't believe in it. Don't force a Baptist church to perform marriage ceremonies. Or a Catholic one. If gay marriage is legalized .. fine.

Only thing - then there will be classes in grade school about it and I think the kids are too young as it is to be getting the sex education that they do. This will add to that burden on the young. THAT could be a problem.

If schools stuck to teaching kids to read, write and do math problems instead of indoctrinating them into whatever the (left wing) NEA wants them to believe .. this wouldn't be an issue at all.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Only thing - then there will be classes in grade school about it and I think the kids are too young as it is to be getting the sex education that they do.

I would oppose classes in grade school about gay marriage. I think that's ridiculous. There are no classes about heterosexual marriage or other adult relationships. Grade school is NOT the place to learn about adult relationships! :shk: It's the place to learn about math and reading.

I am for gay marriage...If a gay man wants to marry a gay woman, I see nothing wrong with that.

I do have a huge problem with same sex marriage. These people do not want equal rights, they want special rights. Equal rights would be the 1st example above.

Originally posted by RRconservative
I do have a huge problem with same sex marriage.

And once again, as happens so often in these discussions, we have the 2 separate camps. One camp (the Anti-Freedom camp) thinks that everyone should be legally forced to behave in the manner of which they approve and agree. The other camp supports individual liberties and believes that even though they don't approve of others' choices, they support their protection under law to make those choices.

If an individual feels that same sex marriage is wrong, they should not marry a person of the same sex.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by RRconservative
I do have a huge problem with same sex marriage.

And once again, as happens so often in these discussions, we have the 2 separate camps. One camp (the Anti-Freedom camp) thinks that everyone should be legally forced to behave in the manner of which they approve and agree. The other camp supports individual liberties and believes that even though they don't approve of others' choices, they support their protection under law to make those choices.

If an individual feels that same sex marriage is wrong, they should not marry a person of the same sex.

I hate being taken out context.

I support gay marriage, but do not support same sex marriage. Equal rights for all, special rights for no one!

My view is that if gay people want to get married and be miserable like the rest of us go right ahead!

Originally posted by RRconservative
I support gay marriage, but do not support same sex marriage.

This is a stupid, ignorant semantics game. Gay marriage IS same sex marriage. And you know that.

Gay marriage isn't a special right. Marriage is being free to enter into a legal marriage with the adult person you choose. Gay people should have this same right under the law.

Originally posted by RRconservative
I do have a huge problem with same sex marriage.

Then don't marry someone of the same sex as you.

These people do not want equal rights, they want special rights.

Explain exactly how two people having equal protection under secular law to engage in a contract of marriage without regard to relative plumbing is "special rights".

Equal rights would be the 1st example above.

Wrong. Equal rights is equal protection under law.

Originally posted by junglelord
face it we all have sex.
it not really special.
so why should it define you>

I agree with the idea that sex (or sexual preferences) do not have to define a person or their choice of relationships.

I would also like to add that we do not all have sex.

My boyfriend and I are both asexual, meaning that we do not have an interest in sex. And we are both very happy that way. If we wanted to get married, would anyone have a problem with it?