NASA: Only 10 Years Till Irreversable Climatic Danger Point

enviornmentalists please ask ourselves this

is it possible we are only to happy to support the NOTION of global warming

because we know that fighting pollution and other things that harm the enviornment IS TO BIG A FIGHT to win UNLESS WE HAVE SOMETHING AS LARGE SUCH AS GLOBAL WARMING ON OUR SIDE.

bad karma

AND if we understand this , then maybe we can ask ourselves why are the globalists REALLY FIGHTING for this, and what does this belief about the future allow them to capitize and make money ON?

I believe I read the article some were referring to when stating that planting trees does not help in certain situations. I believe it has to do with the albedo of the ground surface. In colder climates such as the northern US and Canada, vast fields are covered with snow during the winter. Most sunlight gets reflected away. Now if you plant trees there, that actually causes the area to warm up.

I found an article that discusses this effect.
www.physorg.com...


I still like the idea of dumping iron powder into the ocean to economically take out a large chunk of carbon. Perhaps if experiments were done to spread out and separate areas of iron dumping so that no one area was totally covered in new plankton growth, the sea life might not suffer from any lack of oxygen. Perhaps it would be better to blanket one area of the ocean that is almost deficient in sea life already (if there are some areas) and let the effects of global warming be mitigated until we come up with more efficient processes with less carbon generation in our daily lives.

I think part of the problem is the lack of vision of what will happen if we do nothing. Would the Greenland ice sheet melt almost completely in 15 years and raise sea levels 20 ft? If this was the forecast, it would be cheaper in my opinion to try other experiments to see what might work.

Meanwhile today I was a bit surprised to see someone in my town is getting 130 miles per gallon in their Toyota Prius on some of their trips. They actually call these people a name which I just forgot. They try to maximize their gas mileage in their hybrids by keeping their speed under 40 mph while it's safe to do so and let only the electric motor run so that no gasoline is used. The individual I read about gets about 700 to 800 miles using 10 to 11 gallons of gas. Economics can make us all willing participants in reducing the amount of carbon we use.

Originally posted by orionthehunter


Meanwhile today I was a bit surprised to see someone in my town is getting 130 miles per gallon in their Toyota Prius on some of their trips. They actually call these people a name which I just forgot. They try to maximize their gas mileage in their hybrids by keeping their speed under 40 mph while it's safe to do so and let only the electric motor run so that no gasoline is used. The individual I read about gets about 700 to 800 miles using 10 to 11 gallons of gas. Economics can make us all willing participants in reducing the amount of carbon we use.

The only way to get great gas mileage is don't drive at all. Cars pollute period from the time the iron ore is extracted from the ground. The production of 1 automobile pollutes about 100,000 gallons of fresh water, from start to finish, after that God only knows.

Battery or hybrid cars....well the mining of the materials for the batteries is extremely toxic and sterilizes entire regions.

Battery Powered Cars Pollute and impact environment

The answer is we all should have learned from the Native American Indians and lived like they did. Respect for the land and everything on it.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
That's NASA trying to get funding and implicit support for their "Intelligent Archives" artificial intelligence system:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here's a graphical representation of the average global temperature dating back millions of years. This is from paleomap.com and was created by Chris Scotese.



I have no reason to question the accuracy of this chart, nor do I have any way to verify it either.

However, if it is true that the earth cycles through this wide of a temperature range, then I'm not sure that riding my bike to work instead of driving my SUV is going to make a difference.

Originally posted by forestlady
The Avenger: So we should believe you just because you say so? Why don't you explain to us why GW is a hoax? And if only 33.3% of scientists believe GW is a hoax, how is that proving that GW doesn't exist?

I don't know about The Avenger, but most scientists that I've heard and read aren't saying Global Warming is a hoax. They're saying it's happening, but not because we're driving SUVs and using more air conditioning. It's a cycle that the Earth goes through every so many centuries.

One of the interesting things I heard was that CO2 increases AFTER temperature increases, not the other way around.

THAT is what's being debated, how much impact man really has on global warming. And with people like Al Gore behind one side, you're going to have a lot more exposure of that side than the other, that disagrees with him.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
One of the interesting things I heard was that CO2 increases AFTER temperature increases, not the other way around.

I'm pretty sure that the ocean water's ability to hold dissolved CO2 is directly related to water temperature. if the water temperature rises, then more CO2 is released. This would explain the CO2 increases after the temperature increases.

Originally posted by Realtruth
Conducted by NASA?
So I guess all their testing and space shuttle launches are helping everything?
Why don't these researchers lead by example?

Now this is really interesting, because I have been following the NASA space weather bulletins and they blame it on changes in the sun and the new region of space we are entering that is more dense...

Now another NASA office says its the gases...

I have seen reports too that its the cows fault... ( More cow patties because we are feeding more people)

I wonder if anyone has calculated the amount of greenhouse gases a single human puts out daily? CO2 from one end, Methane from the other... then multiply that by 6 plus billion. I bet its significant....

But all that added together we put aside... You ask why they are still testing...

First of all the exhaust of those rockets are not greenhouse gases. They burn oxygen and hydrogen and the result is pure water in the form of steam... that is what those billowing clouds are... pure water vapor...

Second, they are testing so they can go back to the Moon and Mars to build colonies for the elite and leave us behind sweating our butts off, then freezing as it quickly goes from global warming to ice age....

and all indications are it will happen quickly. Toss in the likelihood that the poles may switch soon, leaving us exposed to cosmic rays (magnetic feild is already down 35%)

So NASA will establish colonies "out there" and watch us suffer down here...

Soooo that about wraps it up

Have a nice day




[edit on 31-5-2007 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon

First of all the exhaust of those rockets are not greenhouse gases. They burn oxygen and hydrogen and the result is pure water in the form of steam... that is what those billowing clouds are... pure water vapor...

Sorry dude, but they don't. The solid rocket boosters use a substance known as Ammonium Perchlorate Composite Propellant.

It might not be a greenhouse gas, but it sure as hell is toxic.

Originally posted by grover
The fact that you mock anyone who thinks that we are contributing to global warming gives you about zero credibility. I really don't care about what you think you have proven, you haven't and considering the vast majority of scientists disagree with you, I doubt seriously that you will.

Like I told muaddib before on another thread about the subject.... who do I believe, the majority of the world's climate scientists or some blow hard at the other end of a modem who claims that he knows what he is talking about?

Save your breathe the likes of Muaddib et al will never see the light. Their fall back position is that it's all natural and we can't prove otherwise and any proof is wrong anyway. A self fulfilling prophecy.

There is also the politicising of this in the US. It's ONLY the US that links pro man made global warming with lefty liberals. Quite why this has happened I have no idea (being a UK citizen). Since peoples political views are more entrenched than religion you can see how impossible it will be for the US skeptics to ever accept the increasingly obvious reality.

Oh I know believe me but I am not about to let them get away with calling their "facts" indisputable when, if you take the time to go and read their sources they are anything but. They will say something means one thing, when in reality it is just their interpretation or they will draw connections that the author of the scientific paper they are quoting from never implies.

We all, all of us, you, me, muaddib, avenger, the moderators, all of us cherry pick the information (news or opinions) that validate our own personal viewpoints. There is no way around it, the big difference is that at the very least, I know it and admit it, they don't.

An interesting intellectual exercise is to take a topic that you have a strong opinion about and do research on the opposition, putting together an article or essay arguing against your own personal viewpoint. Believe me, I have had a couple teachers give out that very assignment and it is damned difficult. It takes a great deal of effort to prevent your personal opinions from inserting themselves into the work, and then there is always the risk that you might educate yourself enough about it to change your mind.

The point being, that while I am no scientist nor make any claims to be one, I am smart enough to read and reason things out myself. Back in the early 90's I seriously doubted the whole notion of global warming, man made or not and would argue against it. I then started reading up on the matter and the more I read, the more convinced I became but the real clincher, had nothing to do with the science. When it became evident that large corporations, most notably EXXON, but others as well, had interjected a large amount of money into the issue in an effort to muddy the water; I had to ask myself, what do they have to hide? And as the issue became increasingly confusing and politicized, by the very interests who had the most to lose, the more I became convinced I became; after all why would they try and confuse the issue, if it was just a matter of bad science?

The details are open to debate but the fact remains, the planet is warming, some of it may be caused by the sun, and some may be caused by geological conditions or whatnot but the facts remain that it is warming, and if there is the slightest chance that we are responsible to some degree, and there is something we can do about it, it behooves us to make the effort.

[edit on 31-5-2007 by grover]

I think youre angry at the wrong people.

Originally posted by thelibra
I honestly wish there were a way to convince the less intelligent of the dire nature of humanity's predicament. But they will stand on the railroad track, with me pointing behind them at the train, and they will smugly smile and tell me the train whistle is nothing more than noise, the threat of the train is psy-ops propaganda, and the shaking of the track is nothing more than a regular, mild Earthquake.

Why take a pop at your fellow ATSers? Its not them that need convincing of anything! And those who may believe in psy-ops propaganda are not usually less intelligent...

What is it you want people convinced of? That Global Warming is happening and if we dont do something 'now' we are all going to hell? How about trying to convince people that Capitalism is happening and is causing 90% of the world’s problems? That includes everything from the environment to mental health. How about trying to convince people that banking should be a public service and without interest rates we would all be very well off, in fact you could still sustain capitalism under that one change alone.

MONEY. Money and the act of acquiring it is the root cause of global pollution. We have the brains, the means and the resources to live in harmony with this planet, maybe even actually get to know it for a change as opposed to plundering it selfishly.

We do NOT need to become hippies living in a dull communistic society eating grass! We can still have the best gadgets, the best colours, the best everything! I dont know about you but I prefer handmade items to plastic crap made in Taiwan (no offense to the Taiwanese). We need to go back to cottage industry type of communities, work local, move freely, earn credits to know you are contributing to your society... blah blah.

What we need to change NOW is our money system. It is crass, childish and bloody unholy! We need to become sustainable, unpolluting and wise, we are on a planet spinning around a sun traveling through the galaxy at mach 2.2 ... we do NOT need to live this way.

If there are Aliens waiting for humanity to 'grow up', would it not be this?

Actually the tipping point is December 21, 2012

That's the day the world ends right....so who cares about ten years from now.

Nasa Chief, M. Griffin has just been interviewed with other interesting comments, sorta in conflict to this news report. Can his statement be in response to the mainstream reporting done by NASA and this report?

Here's my link thread on the topic, interesting comments.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Interesting that no one seems to have notices the graph provided by Nick showing the teperature variations through different periods of Earth's history.

It looks like we've been pretty lucky and it's about to get a whole lot more humid and hotter.........yet it's not 'humans' fault.......it's a planetary cycle.

Oh God oh God were all going to die, boo hoo.

I wont be here in 100 years so who gives...

Its nature, its happened before, it will happen again. If humanity is wiped out then so what, what can we do.

Get out the six pack and tinnies feet up and enjoy life and let the world tend to itself. It will be OK long after we are all dead and gone.

KFC bucket anyone?

If mankind is solely responsible for Earth's warming than why are other planets in our solar system warming up too? Is that our fault too? I think the whole global warming thing is a cover up for something in a much larger scale. Our whole solar system is going wacky, not just Earth.

Earth will go on but the human race will not walk upon the Earth.

Has not the human race learned from the inhabitants of Easter Island or the many other Habitants through time.

Over fifty years ago I was told by the Grey I go to that for every tree we destroy we must replant that tree ten fold and we did not do this. Now we need to plant in mass if you don't care for you then you should care for your future family generations.

Plants, Trees...... the miracle workers they will cure Earth they will cure you. You have 39 years before you are no more.

To plant something is so simple and doesn't take to much time.

Oh boy...as always you get some people who can't debate a topic and respond with ad hominem attacks...

But of course, like always, these same members resort time and time again to the same ad hominem attacks simply because they "can't discuss the topic".

Anyways...

Let's look at some of the evidence about Climate Change that for some reason there are people who want to dismiss.

Bright sun, warm Earth. Coincidence?
Lorne Gunter, National Post
Published: Monday, March 12, 2007
Mars's ice caps are melting, and Jupiter is developing a second giant red spot, an enormous hurricane-like storm.

The existing Great Red Spot is 300 years old and twice the size of Earth. The new storm -- Red Spot Jr. -- is thought to be the result of a sudden warming on our solar system's largest planet. Dr. Imke de Pater of Berkeley University says some parts of Jupiter are now as much as six degrees Celsius warmer than just a few years ago.

Neptune's moon, Triton, studied in 1989 after the unmanned Voyageur probe flew past, seems to have heated up significantly since then. Parts of its frozen nitrogen surface have begun melting and turning to gas, making Triton's atmosphere denser.

Even Pluto has warmed slightly in recent years, if you can call -230C instead of -233C "warmer."

And I swear, I haven't left my SUV idling on any of those planets or moons. Honest, I haven't.

Is there something all these heavenly bodies have in common? Some one thing they all share that could be causing them to warm in unison?

www.canada.com...

Climate Change has not been predicted just on Earth, but on other planets, and has happened as predicted.

Another of de Pater's colleagues, UC Berkeley mechanical engineering professor Philip Marcus, predicted several years ago that Jupiter's climate was changing, based on the disappearance of the cyclonic storms or spots within the bands. The formation of Red Spot Jr. from three smaller storms is an example of this. The mixing of the atmosphere by these cyclones keeps the temperature about the same over the entire planet, he argued, so loss of this mixing will cause the equator to heat up and the poles to cool.

www.sciencedaily.com...

From Dr. Imke de Pater's website...

Telescope is giving astronomers their most detailed view yet of a second red spot emerging on Jupiter. For the first time in history, astronomers have witnessed the birth of a new red spot on the giant planet, which is located half a billion miles away. The storm is roughly one-half the diameter of its bigger and legendary cousin, the Great Red Spot. Researchers suggest that the new spot may be related to a possible major climate change in Jupiter's atmosphere. Two teams of astronomers were given discretionary time on Hubble to observe the new red spot.

astro.berkeley.edu...

When amateur astronomer Chris Go noted the color change of Oval BA in February 2006, we were spurredto observe the planet with Hubble Space Telescope (HST) ACS. UC Berkeley fluid dynamicist Philip Marcus hadpredicted climate change on Jupiter based on the evolution of this oval.

astro.berkeley.edu...

But not to worry folks, warming is not happening anywhere else except on Earth... It is all your fault, so give me some money, in the form of taxes, and everything will be alright..


[edit on 31-5-2007 by Muaddib]

Let me actually post the recent findings of some more "heretics" who put serious doubts on the claims that Climate Change on Earth is being caused by mankind.

Suggestive correlations between the brightness of Neptune, solar variability, and Earth's temperature

H. B. Hammel & G. W. Lockwood

Long-term photometric measurements of Neptune show variations of brightness over half a century. Seasonal change in Neptune's atmosphere may partially explain a general rise in the long-term light curve, but cannot explain its detailed variations. This leads us to consider the possibility of solar-driven changes, i.e., changes incurred by innate solar variability perhaps coupled with changing seasonal insolation.

Although correlations between Neptune's brightness and Earth's temperature anomaly-and between Neptune and two models of solar variability-are visually compelling, at this time they are not statistically significant due to the limited degrees of freedom of the various time series.

Nevertheless, the striking similarity of the temporal patterns of variation should not be ignored simply because of low formal statistical significance. If changing brightnesses and temperatures of two different planets are correlated, then some planetary climate changes may be due to variations in the solar system environment.

Hammel, H. B., and G. W. Lockwood, 2007. Suggestive correlations between the brightness of Neptune, solar variability, and Earth’s temperature, GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH LETTERS, VOL. 34, L08203, doi:10.1029/2006GL028764, 2007

Originally posted by thelibra
....................
I'm already expecting a few of the usual suspects to regurgitate the same naysaying about global warming, and arguments about the hockey-stick graph. I honestly wish there were a way to convince the less intelligent of the dire nature of humanity's predicament.
...................

That's very nice that a moderator is claiming other members are "less intelligent" because they disagree with him/her....

How about you discuss the facts, and the data instead of making stupid accusations, and comments?

[edit on 31-5-2007 by Muaddib]