Russia tests new ICBM weapons system

I was so tempted to replace Russia with Soviets. I thought the days of building new weapons of mass destruction were over?

This RS-24 intercontinental ballistic missile has an unconfirmed range right now, but it hit a target on the Kamchatka peninsula, 5.5 thousand kilometres away from its launch pad at the Plesetsk test facility, in northern Russia. I'm just throwing it out here, but I bet its range is greater than 16, 000km (9, 940 miles), the range of the SS-18 it's replacing.

But the most interesting thing by far, imho, is that the 10 warheads this missile carries are capable of avoiding anti-missile defence systems.
A direct quote from President Putin: "These missile systems don't represent a response to a missile defense system, but they are immune to that. They are hypersonic and capable of changing their flight path."


I want to find out more about this anti-anti ballistic missile defence system. An ICBM works by boosting the valuable nuclear payload to a sub-orbital elliptical flightpath, where the re-entry vehicle releases each of the warheads inside the nose cone at specific times so that the warheads hit different areas. Each of those warheads come back down to earth with a velocity of about 4 km/s. This is the stage most ABM systems spring into action, doing whatever they have to do to blow the falling warhead out of the air. To accurately avoid incoming threats the warhead must detect them first, then take evasive action, which is in this case independently guiding the warhead. I didn't know this was possible. What does the warhead use to spot incoming threats. Radar, FLIR, satellites beaming information to it?




Also, just poking around the net I found a heap of 'interesting' links:

Russia upgrades nuclear missiles
Putin unveils 'new super missile'
Russia tests anti-missile system
Russia adds new missile to planes
Putin vows Russian weapons boost
Russia tests long-range missile

Wait is this the topol-m or something entirely new?

This is completely new. Sounds a hell of a lot like the Topol' M though. Topol' is probably the best ICBM out there atm, I suppose that wasn't enough for the Russian military though.

watch_the_rocks, I am extremely tempted to flame you over your opening statement but I think I'll resist. Hard struggle it is though. The days of buiding weapons of mass destructions were over lol, where have you been? Or do you think the big thing in the world now is hunting for these weapons in third world countries?

Oh and here's a funny link guys, AOL homepage says that Topol' Ms are heavily outdated technology lol. Just flip to the 5th pic on the link and read the commment below it.

link: news.aol.com...

Regards,
Maestro

Relax guys! it is only Russia showing that they are still strong and big!!!!
I wont be wery suprised when this is a hoax!!!
It's like back in 60,when they realized that they entire nuclear shield are defective and they rockets were incapable to deliver warheads!!
Because U.S want to build an interceptor baterie in Europe, Russia must show something!! In real-time all Russia weaponry an tech are very outdated and moust whitout maintance!!!
I was recently in Chelabinsk(there is very big tank division)and spoke whit sergant of tank crew!He said that this propoganda is killing him,because they are some very good new tech that are developed in Russia,but this tech isnt in regular army or in very small nummbers.All of Russian newest tech are going out of Russia.
Only my fear is when oil prices stay so high,Russia son will have enough money to make an seriouses upgrades in their weaponry!!

OT:
swesais
Have you ever been at Pskov base, where 76th Division is stationed, you would hear a completely different story. Conscript units are no longer upgraded as Russia is moving towards a professional army. Those units that allready operate on a professional basis have very modern equipment and their training and leadership are very effective.

Clearly this is in responce to our missile defence shield. It's the arms race all over again. Perhaps the Islamo-fascist are incapable of being a big enough enemy to keep us scared long enough for the take-over. Perhaps it's just the backup plan if everything else doesn't work. The Russians have always had more to fear from us than we do from them.

Hi,

I was desperately trying not to get dragged into this but the last few comments in this thread infuriate me. Americans are acusing the Russian government of 'saber rattling', hoax's etc and using phrases like 'they have more reason to be scared of us then we do of them' This is the very type of arrogant, selfish, closed minded point of view that leads to the majority of the world hating the US. It's not your success, or your financial wealth, or your democracy that is despised it is your ignorance!

I totally see this as a response to the planned 'shield' that the US Warmongering government is wanting to implement. In that single move by Bush (or at least string pullers behind the useless brain dead moron) the cold war was re-chilled! Here we go again!

To hear all of these rediculous comments about whose ICBM is bigger than whose is like being in a playground listening to children arguing over the size of their TV's.
However good the defences, however good the weapons, only one missile has to get through to kill millions, in fact it doesn't even need to get through it simply needs to be launched and the counterstrike from either side would do the killing.

If you can't see what is going wrong here, if you can't see what the implications of your countries actions are then God help us all! Wake Up!
Whoever it was that posted the comment about who should be scared of who you were correct! But only correct in that the whole globe should be scared of America, with your corrupt goverment, your limitless willingness to spend on death, your ignorance, your arrogance, and your insecurity! The disappointing thing is that most of the Americans I know would disagree with the majority of comments posted here, it's just a shame the more intelligent ones don't join in more often!

Unfortunately Russia has been forced into a situation that they must respond to and they are doing so. Sure, money would better be spent on infrastructure, health and social care but thanks to the actions of Bush they can't. Nice move Condy!

Sorry for the rant

Robbie

Originally posted by swesais
Relax guys! it is only Russia showing that they are still strong and big!!!!
I wont be wery suprised when this is a hoax!!!

It's like back in 60,when they realized that they entire nuclear shield are defective and they rockets were incapable to deliver warheads!!
Because U.S want to build an interceptor baterie in Europe, Russia must show something!! In real-time all Russia weaponry an tech are very outdated and moust whitout maintance!!!
I was recently in Chelabinsk(there is very big tank division)and spoke whit sergant of tank crew!He said that this propoganda is killing him,because they are some very good new tech that are developed in Russia,but this tech isnt in regular army or in very small nummbers.All of Russian newest tech are going out of Russia.
Only my fear is when oil prices stay so high,Russia son will have enough money to make an seriouses upgrades in their weaponry!!

Damn...can someone spell ignorance...or spell at all for that matter?

Oh and even if what you were saying was true, just about every nation in history (even the Germans in WW2) all made the same mistake of underestimating Russia by claiming their tech to be out of date, calling it's army a mess. Funny pattern isn't it. And it really was so. WW2 the ruskie army was in such a mess it was unbelievable, not to mention the weapons available to them..if any. You get the point i'm trying to get across.

Seems like this is going to grow into a pretty heated debate so....i'm with stratsys-sws on this one.

Regards,
Maestro

stratsys -

I sincerely suggest backing off. Dont you dare trash my country like that again. Let me give you an example:

If you have a jar of jellybeans, and you reach in and pick two, one red, one yellow. You seem to assume that that means all of them are red and yellow. How dare you call us ignorant, arrogant and insecure. You sound just like a terrorist. You are the type of person our government should keep a close eye on, and for good reason. Your "rant" bears striking resemblence to some of the videos that have been sent to the US, of al-qaeda beheading american journalists. Are you one of the masked men? you sound like one.

While I can understand your frustration over a bunch of closed minded imbeciles on the forum who will not be named, you have no right to judge 300 million people, a good chunk of who despise our government in the same way you do. You are judgemental, closed minded, anti-americanist who judges a country of 300 million by the statements of its 12 year old nationalist kids who happen to have a computer and say something you dont like.

I sincerely hope that I have misjudged. However, if this is the type of person you want to be viewed as, I hope beyond all hope that some misfired ICBM, born from another russian weapons program comes crashing down on your roof.


Now, back on to topic.

I do belive this is a response to the missile shield, but not as its primary purpose. It was probably designed a few years ago, to modernize russias forces, but putin sees this as an opertunity to scare the US missiles out of europe. Personally I dont see why, unless putin is planning to go to nuclear war any time soon. If I were putin, the way to show my peaceful intents would be to let the shield in. Otherwise, this is seen in my eyes as "you deploy a missile shield that can block our older missiles. So we want bigger missiles so that we can still hit you."

If I was leading the US government, right now, the LAST AND STUPIDEST THING THAT I COULD POSSIBLY DO is cancel the european missile shield. If that happenes, the kremlin immediately believes "so they WERE trying to block us. Now that they cant, they dont want to waste their time and money". A good move would be to go ahead, and the kremlin might think "so they dont back off even with our super missiles? maybe they really werent trying to block us".

Also, this missile is not invincible like people say. It might be able to evade an interceptor, but a half second behind it is a second interceptor that will hit the new flight path. Remember, these interceptor missiles arent straight-shots. They can change their own flight path, need be. They home in with autonimous, infrared, self guidance. The evading missile cant evade again fast enough.

Next, having some SM-3s off the coast of england would perhaps do the job. Again, send up two.

Finally, a version of the defense could probably be fitted to the Ohio class SSBNs. If they can launch tridents, they can launch GBMCDs. They would just need a sea based X-band platform for guidance.

Before we blow our lid, perhaps it'd be healthy to know that Russia only uses the United State's missile shield as an excuse to develop so many weapons, and to withdraw from many of the most important treaties that exist between itself and Europe.

The missle shield:

a. Is not facing the correct direction; radar, specifically, to intercept Russian missiles. They know this.

b. They have no defenses, and could easily be taken out with conventional means.

c. Russia has known about these plans for a long while, though simply waited until development to make notice.

d. Russian Generals have acknowledged all of the above.

Sabre rattling is right.

Further:
Russia has, historically, had a terrible record of maintenance for its armed forces. This is fact. It is true in the nuclear and conventional field, and has been proven in nearly every war. Which was, might we add, won only because of the opponent's failure to prepare for a long, drawn-out conflict in a place as relatively barren as Russia.
And also, that Russia tends to survive,during and before World War II if we care to go back that far, by the grace of its partners, who fuel it the arms it needs. It was never a matter of them having 'quality' equipment, as they never did until modern-day.



[edit on 30-5-2007 by Iblis]

Perhaps my comment was misunderstood. I was not saying that Russia has more to fear from us than we them as a point of pride. Quite the opposite. We have always attempted to portray the Russians as the great red menace, when in fact the US has been the aggressor and this appears to be just another instance of us attempting to egg them on.

Putin and his KGB cronies have created a new dictatorship in Russia, attempting to follow the Chinese model by allowing some free enterprise while eliminating political dissent.

They fear that the shrinking sphere of influence that occured after the breakup of the Soviet Union could continue from the baltics to georgia to the ukrane right into ol' mother russia herself. Chechnya is but the first of many breakaway regions threatening moscow with rejection of it's authority.

So they build prototype weapons and bully people with gas cutoffs and promise unstoppable hypersonic vehicles that jink, turn, rock and roll after launch to fool SAM defenses.

All this is fine while the petrodollars roll in, but as demographics and oil reserves dry up, they face the same problems they have always faced and created for themselves:

The hostility of the west for thier breaking of agreements (Ask BP how they fell about future investment there)

The hatred of it's near nieghbors it formerly ruled over

The failure of thier Potemkin military to
actually perform what thier generals brag it can do.

Let Putin threaten to turn these babies out like sausages a la Khruschev.
It's money wasted that he should be spending fighting Jihadis.

Originally posted by aaaaa
Putin and his KGB cronies have created a new dictatorship in Russia, attempting to follow the Chinese model by allowing some free enterprise while eliminating political dissent.

What do Putin's "KGB cronies" have to do with any of this? KGB is not in charge of development of nuclear forces- Russia has a completely separate branch for this task. People throw in "KGB" and "dictatorship" in every discussion that involves Putin to troll the topic, and sadly they often succeed. And dictatorship being developed by Putin is not much different than the corporate dictatorship in countries like the US. US seems free and democratic, but it only has two political parties, both of which play suck-up to the corporate elite who run the empire. Every country in the world has a dictatorship- it's just that in some countries it cleverly disguises itself as something more benevolent- like say a democracy.

Originally posted by aaaaa
They fear that the shrinking sphere of influence that occured after the breakup of the Soviet Union could continue from the baltics to georgia to the ukrane right into ol' mother russia herself.

Russia was never interested in the Baltics or Ukraine or Georgia being part of it's new federation. Why? Because all these regions are far poorer and far m0ore politically messed-up then Russia. However Russia as any large nation (and as the US) feels entitled to some sphere of influence. The coups that occured in Ukraine and Georgia under the banner of the so called "colored revolutions" are nothing more than methods by US and Western European allies to overthrow elected pro-Russian corrupt politicians, and replace them with pro-NATO equally corrupt and despotic leaders. Look at the "dictatorship" Yuschenko is creating in Ukraine by disolving the elected parliament and taking full control of the nation which should constitutionally be controlled by the Parliament (RADA).

Originally posted by aaaaa
Chechnya is but the first of many breakaway regions threatening moscow with rejection of it's authority.

Chechnya is Russia, and there was never a nation of Chechnya. As it is now known the war was started by Islamists to spread the "greater Halifat" into the North Caucasus and create insurrections into other nearby republics.

Originally posted by aaaaa
So they build prototype weapons and bully people with gas cutoffs and promise unstoppable hypersonic vehicles that jink, turn, rock and roll after launch to fool SAM defenses.

Russia sees best how to distribute and export ITS OWN ENERGY. So does US, when it stopped supplying North Korea with oil under the previous agreement when Bush came to power. It is bullying no one, and it simply doing what everyone else is doing. It is no longer a social state to give out free energy to the very neighbors who now want to join NATO.

Originally posted by aaaaa
The hostility of the west for thier breaking of agreements (Ask BP how they fell about future investment there).

HAAAA. Funny that you mention BP. One of the corporations that was the source of corruption and political briberies in Russia in the 90's. BP and others have robbed Russia for an entire decade, and have made billions off of it, just as they have in Venezuela. BP was getting oil/gas from Russia, and bypassing taxes because of agreements with corrupt oligarchs and the politicians that backed them. BP got rich, the oligarchs got rich, and the politicians got rich. Russia got poorer with every barrel of oil it exported.

Originally posted by aaaaa
The hatred of it's near nieghbors it formerly ruled over

There is no hatered involved, and if you knew Russia's and Soviet history well enough you would not be saying this. Ukrainians and Georgians are and always were (and will be) brothers to Russians. The political bickering does not represent hatered, and both sides know this well enough. The 90's were far more confusing for Russia and its neighbors than you can ever hope to undertand. The realliance of these nations just foreshadows more unstability to come.

Let me tell you that there is far more hatered between the two sides within Ukraine than between Russian and Ukrainian politicians. Ukraine is nearing a civil conflict right now, and it is being fueled by Yuschenko and his cronies and their backers in the West.

Originally posted by aaaaa
Let Putin threaten to turn these babies out like sausages a la Khruschev.
It's money wasted that he should be spending fighting Jihadis.

What Jihadis? You mean in Iraq? Afghanistan? The Jihadi boogiemen are the US creation, and US's issue. Russia finished most of the job in Chechnya, and it is no longer the Jihadis it has to worry about there, but the infighting between the pro-Russian warlords. NATO and China are the biggest issues for Russia in the future.

And what is the surprise and criticism about Russia's missile development? US is busy building a complete array of new military technologies, yet it is already the most powerful nation in the world. New bombs such as the MOAB, robotized machinery to assist infantry forces, 5th generation jets, new submarines to replace the already highly-capable Ohio class, new bombers, new navy ships. What do you expect the rest of the world to do, when you are pumping hundreds of billions of dollars to make the strongest military in the world even more superior to anything anyone else has to offer?

Russia stopped advancing militarily in the early 90's, and its military build-up grinded to a full halt. For a decade economy and politics was all that mattered and military took the back seat despite having to be utilized in Chechnya.

Russia expected that the end of the Cold War would result in US following suit, and ending the massive buildup and development of military forces. This never happened, and US never scaled back from the Cold War militarism. In fact 9/11 and a bunch of nutjob radicals hiding in caves with ak47's supposedly gave it a reason to fuel its military development. Supposedly things like MOAB's, 5th generation fighters, stealth bombers, and new submarines are what is needed to defeat a bunch of ak-wielding peasants. I think not. 9/11 was an exuse to escalate military development- but the cause for this development is not the War on Terror, but retaining the control of Global affair from countries like China, Russia and India.

And now that Russia and others see that the Cold War never ended for the US, and never will end, they understand that military build-up should not end for them either. It is a necessity create by the superpowers, or in this case the sole-remaining super power. Putin saw that if Russia doesn't get itself back in the game, then by the time it will the game might very well be over. China is struggling to keep pace, or rather catch-up with the US and Russia as well. It will never stop once it is started. Only a massive war can put a temporary halt to it.


So Russia is simply playing catch-up now for the decade (the 90's) when it was standing still. It is obvious that if US wants to place in Eastern Europe a method to prevent Russia's missiles from doing their job in an event of a conflict, Russia will simply have to develop better missiles. If it doesn't get involved, it will simply be outsmarted in a short time and taken advantage off.

ah, the successor to the SS-18 (NATO designation Satan)))))
good stuff

Originally posted by watch_the_rocks
I was so tempted to replace Russia with Soviets. I thought the days of building new weapons of mass destruction were over?

Ummm.. then you have clearly not been following this topic.

Originally posted by watch_the_rocks
I want to find out more about this anti-anti ballistic missile defence system. To accurately avoid incoming threats the warhead must detect them first, then take evasive action, which is in this case independently guiding the warhead. I didn't know this was possible. What does the warhead use to spot incoming threats. Radar, FLIR, satellites beaming information to it?

Not necessarily. You`ve said it yourself-- "An ICBM works by boosting the valuable nuclear payload to a sub-orbital elliptical flightpath, where the re-entry vehicle releases each of the warheads inside the nose cone at specific times so that the warheads hit different areas." ICBM stands for ballistic missile, meaning the ballistic flight trajectory is set at launch and does not change. This is why countries have Anti-Ballisticmissile shield systems that calculate the incoming missile's trajectory making it easy to intercept and destroy it along its flightpath. Now technically, these new russian missiles such as Topol-M (and now this one) shouldn't even fall into the ICBM category since they sporadically change their trajectory right after launch. This makes them much harder to destroy because they do not arrive where the shield "expects them to be". As far as i know the missile and warheads dont detect and evade the anti-missiles, they just randomly change heading and altitude. Its pretty hard to hit something thats going five times the speed of sound and maneuvring all the way, eh) These new weapons render any modern anti-ballistic-missile-system.... well.. not obsolete as sensationalists have been putting it.... but a tad outdated))) So the only current way to counter this type of threat is to intercept the ICBM at takeoff. Now why do you think the US is putting anti-missile batteries right at Russia's doorstep?

Originally posted by maestro46
Oh and here's a funny link guys, AOL homepage says that Topol' Ms are heavily outdated technology lol. Just flip to the 5th pic on the link and read the commment below it.

link: news.aol.com...

Regards,
Maestro

awwwwww... did they forget to mention the fact that its the best ICMB in the world... how cute
hahhahahahahahahahhaha outdated my ass

nice find Maestro

Originally posted by swesais
Relax guys! it is only Russia showing that they are still strong and big!!!!
I wont be wery suprised when this is a hoax!!!

It's like back in 60,when they realized that they entire nuclear shield are defective and they rockets were incapable to deliver warheads!!
Because U.S want to build an interceptor baterie in Europe, Russia must show something!! In real-time all Russia weaponry an tech are very outdated and moust whitout maintance!!!

You know, almost every single one of Russia's enemies has made the fatal mistake of underestimating her capabilities. Personally, i just hope that this trend continues into the future... makes it a hellovalot easier to win wars

EDIT: FATAL mistake

[edit on 30-5-2007 by gone_wrong]

Originally posted by polanksi
Clearly this is in responce to our missile defence shield. It's the arms race all over again.

Would you be referring to the inoperational missile defence shield the US is developing? And if so, would it bother you all that much to find out exactly how long has Russia had a fully deployed and operational one?
What's a response to what here?

Originally posted by polanksi
The Russians have always had more to fear from us than we do from them.

typical..

Maloy, if Putin is not in charge weapon development and the military in Russia, who is?

Your use of the old comparable systems arguments is telling. The system that can not allow protesters to demonstrate or journalists to differ from the government line is certainly different from an American system where the press seems focused on tearing down the administration at all costs, and hundreds of thousands have the right to fill the streets in protest.

Two parties mortally opposed to each other at the expense of the national interest is certainly nothing like the nationalist technocrats in charge in the Kremlin.

If you think the Putinists didn't care about what happened in the Ukraine, or that there is a love of Russia in Georgia or Estonia, and the rest of the near abroad you are living in a fantasy world.

The bitterness and humiliation felt in Moscow among former Soviet types will not be assuaged with new weapon systems or support for other brutal dictators in Tehran, Amman, and Caracas.

Your avitar with the hammer and sickle says it all. You take pride in a system that murdered millions of it's own citizens. Shame on you.