Gravy's "Ground Zeros" (ATS VIDEO TEST)

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
You call that advocating?

With all do respect, writing a disclaimer doesn't shadow much these days in terms of intent. I'm sorry that you don't like my opinion, but revealing a new (really cool) aspect of ATS, one in which many people (from all spectrums of debate) would be interested in admiring, and using that to show a "Farrennheit 9/11" type propaganda in disfavor of the truthers (for lack of better term)... is advocating from within the midst IMHO.

Don't mean to upset, just curious to why that video was chosen to launch a new service, that's all. I always liked the fact that my interpretation of you three amigos was that you tried to seem nueutral. Perhaps I was wrong on my assumption.

AAC

Any thought that Mark might have done this as a parody to the style of videos and to make sure that you get facts and not just follow a crowd? Usually for a good parody to be done, you have to feel strongly about the subject. Mark makes Les and Company out to be rude and ignorant and only blindly follow instead of researching the facts. A good debate will have both speakers researching the oppositions facts and opinions.

Frankly I think that Les and Co. are why people will not listen. Mark presents a good case for shooting the messenger and instead of the message. Given the amount of knowledge on the subject, I think would freely admit that the government dropped the ball on 9/11. But to go from dropping the ball to Larry Silerstein and the NYFD and W all need to be executed for plotting the deaths of 3000 Americans by using holographic planes and death rays from space is one hell of leap in illogic.

In the video, mark points out incorrect information and generally bad behavior in an exaggerated cartoonish fashion that many truth video use. Not saying that Mark doesn't come away clean, as he also shows his butt too. But look at what he deals with on his "Saturday Therapy Sessions".

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
I always liked the fact that my interpretation of you three amigos was that you tried to seem nueutral.

Neutral in managing ATS... neutral in research... but not in opinion...
I Once Dreamed Of Liberty
Maintaining Liberty Is The Hardest Thing to Do
The Symphony of Conspiracies and Why It's Important to be "Anti-American"
Marketing 9/11 Conspiracies
White House Email Conspiracy

But while I'm a long-standing conspiracy aficionado, I know it's important to tolerate, even embrace, highly critical opinions from detractors. We (conspiracy theorists) must be collaborative with debunkers and open to have our theories ripped to shreds... so that we can be aware of where there are issues, and what we should do about them.

Our search is not to prove our theories, our search is for the reality of these events... even if our favorite ideas end up being incorrect.

In my experience, the majority of 9/11 "Truthers" are well-intended but poorly focused. They tend to search for evidence that props up their theories, and discard conflicting evidence and information.

If we're to be any good at zeroing in on reality, we must be aware of, and discuss the efforts of those who are intense "debunkers." Their efforts help us more than they can possibly imagine. And, while we're at it, do it without anger and offer a polite smile and say "thank you very much."

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Their efforts help us more than they can possibly imagine.

And, while we're at it, do it without anger and offer a polite smile and say "thank you very much."

I agree wholeheartedly. Sorry to kick up dust sir, just don't want you guys turning into the boogieman.

Really cool video stream though.

Has Bruce Leeroy came to find you yet? Who's the master?
*Obscure reference anyone?*

AAC

Originally posted by GwionX
I responded, that Mark Roberts has done his homework and provided a link. If you did more than just glimpse at that information you would find volumes of information written by Gravy. You would also find volumes of information supporting his assertions.

I understand that he posted links to volumes of information. That was my point. Where does he - or you for that matter - keep his arguments on why the towers collapsed? Pointing to NIST doesn't count. I think it's already been shown that the NIST report doesn't even come up with any conclusion about buildings 1, 2, or 7.

With that being said, since he agrees with NIST's theory that it wasn't a pancake collapse, why does he post stuff like this on his site?

"The kinetic energy of the top part of the tower impacting the floor below was found to be about 8.4x larger than the plastic energy absorption cpability of the underlying story"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but saying that the top floors smashed the lower floors into each other is a pancake collapse?

As Bill said "It all depends on what your definition of 'is' is." For me a pancake collapse would be a floor cleanly hitting the floor below and those two floors joining a third and the three joining a fourth and so on. Making for a nice clean stack of floors on the ground.

The weight of a section of say 20 floors crashing through a floor draging its mangled remains and weight behind and adding to the original mass, balling the office equipment in the window offices as the leading edge of the collapse is now two to three floors below it in a torrent of mass that almost looks fluid like an avalanche might be called a pancake collapse by others.

NIST says no pancake collapse happened. Guess that would depend on which definition they used. Many truth sites say that NIST claims pancake collapse. Easy test would be research NIST to find out if it is yea or nay. But if the attitude is "My momma said NIST is the devil." Then sorry Forrest, but Jenny isn't gonna put out for you this time and W might whisper to an aide that you make him look pretty smart. Or in the case of Ground Zeroes, Looney Tunes and Gene Wilder audio clips are going to be played. As a side note, Les does kinda look like Carl from Slingblade now that I think about it.

But hey, it is a Blue Moon tonight so who knows.

who made this video???

and who is the narrator of it???

sorry if these answers have been mentioned before...

Originally posted by they see ALL
who made this video???

and who is the narrator of it???

sorry if these answers have been mentioned before...

That would be Mark Robberts for both questions. Video quality is from using the video mode of a digital camera. Not too bad of a quality considering the source. I found nice that he joked about the bit of feedback in on clip that the mic picked up.

Originally posted by Ahabstar
As Bill said "It all depends on what your definition of 'is' is."

Yea, but even us liberals can admit Bill was just BS'ing when he said that. It's just semantics, and semantics never gets you anywhere. Fact of the matter is, pancaking means top floors crushing into the ones below them, which in turn is too much force for that floor, and so on.

Forget the semantics, is that what the offical story is or not? I'm just tired of the dancing around the issue. If it's so concrete that there's no conspiracy, then it shouldn't be very hard to come up with a coherent answer.

Originally posted by Sublime620

Originally posted by Ahabstar
As Bill said "It all depends on what your definition of 'is' is."

Yea, but even us liberals can admit Bill was just BS'ing when he said that. It's just semantics, and semantics never gets you anywhere. Fact of the matter is, pancaking means top floors crushing into the ones below them, which in turn is too much force for that floor, and so on.

Forget the semantics, is that what the offical story is or not? I'm just tired of the dancing around the issue. If it's so concrete that there's no conspiracy, then it shouldn't be very hard to come up with a coherent answer.

According to NIST, no pancake, as far as I have found. Could it buried deep inside and a poor edit forgot the word "no" or "not", possibly. It is a 10000 page snoozefest afterall. Either way you want to call it floors had to touch other floors in some manner during the collapse otherwise the buildings would standing still...maybe, they might have determined unsafe and then demolished at a later date. Too bad WTC1 didn't make it that day and had to have a CD. A botched job that took out 3 other buildings would have ended many arguements...no, some would still claim conspiracy or that it was done on purpose or holographic plungers or something.

As to if there was any conspiracy at all, the jury will be deadlocked for an ungodly amount of time. People will argue and beliefs that will seemingly never be fully answered to their satisfaction. Think of all the things you believed as a child that you later grew to know were wrong. Me, I thought that all the bands played live at the radio station. The idea of them playing records seemed too easy as I could do that at home on my own. Moon made of green cheese, heard it plenty of times but didn't buy into that one. As adults, we hold on to mistakes in thought much stronger than we did as children. Something about an adult thought being more complex therefore must be more true or harder to shake I guess. Could explain why Bill thought adultry was okay. Or maybe other reasons there why he had marriage problems.

As for the semantics of Clinton's "is" is, well he wasn't sitting too pretty with everyone at the time and came very close to being the first president to be completely empeached. Being a former Law professor and licensed by the bar assoc. he could hardly claim ignorance to lies.

No the whole Monica affair is not what got me but the one time he said that people have no right to complain about law enforcement and especially the actions of the ATF after Waco and Ruby Ridge. That is what set me dead against Bill Clinton. Unless of course you want to argue semantics again about the right to petition on that piece of paper that most politicians seem to use as a public urinal after taking office.

But more recently, inhis blow up in that Fox News interview (justified in my opinion as it was an unapproved question) he admitted to trying to assassinate OBL. It is illegal to engage in state sponsered assassinations, has been since the 1970's. He got another free pass on that one too.

Very well done! I'm only halfway through watching. I love the audio inserts from cartoons and movies. Nice touch! Keep it coming!

Originally posted by Ahabstar
That would be Mark Robberts for both questions.

thank you

i thought it was SO

great video player.

but, the video is quite lame. it's a very long and drawn out 3 part series of really nothing except making fun of people, their personalities and their lives.

nothing significant at all. if the guys that made the video had a profile, I wouldn't give him any stars. If the person is trying to "de-bunk" the truthers, why doesn't he? why all the playground games?

if he would have presented some facts other than "she claims to have 'attempts' made on her life" maybe I'd reconsider. and I think that there are other scene transitions other than the text scroll.

[edit on 29-5-2007 by tyranny22]

Originally posted by tyranny22
great video player.

but, the video is quite lame. it's a very long and drawn out 3 part series of really nothing except making fun of people, their personalities and their lives.

nothing significant at all. if the guys that made the video had a profile, I wouldn't give him any stars. If the person is trying to "de-bunk" the truthers, why doesn't he? why all the playground games?

if he would have presented some facts other than "she claims to have 'attempts' made on her life" maybe I'd reconsider. and I think that there are other scene transitions other than the text scroll.

[edit on 29-5-2007 by tyranny22]

My sentiments exactly. Great video player though.

AAC

Hi,
]Just thought i would add my .02 in here. Mark Roberts is one of the better debunkers that I have seen. I tend to "surf" around the conspiracy sites on my spare time. Not one to post too much, I have seen "Gravy" in televised debates with "truthers". This posted video is not one of his finer moments although IMO he does make the guys here look a little foolish.

I watched Mark dismantle Dylan Avery and Jason Bermas on a moderated debate a couple months ago. I have also read papers that he has written. He has a great piece on the WTC7 collapse. I have seen many of his contributions on several other sites as well. Pretty smart dude for a "tour guide".

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
I watched Mark dismantle Dylan Avery and Jason Bermas on a moderated debate a couple months ago. I have also read papers that he has written. He has a great piece on the WTC7 collapse. I have seen many of his contributions on several other sites as well. Pretty smart dude for a "tour guide".

But that is my point. Why does a "tour guide" take so much time to "dismantle" the truth movement? If someone thinks a theory is whack, why do they go to these extremes to try and discredit it? It doesn't make sense to me. Why be so gungho?

I don't believe in the moon landing conspiracy but I don't use all my spare time to discredit and try and prove that theory wrong. Seams like Mark aka Gravy needs to get a life.

From what I have read about Gravy, is that he was upset with the 911ForTruth guys down at 911 every saturday. He didn't like how they were lying to the public. Why is he wasting his time? I can't tell you. Maybe he feels that he is doing justice for the victims and their families. Same reason why the truthers are doing their Sat. morning ritual.

Gravy strongly believes in the offical story, and backs it up consistantly with facts. I have seen him on video a couple times making Alex Jones stutter, and retreat. I agree with Mark when he stated it was in bad taste to have the 911truth.com group protesting on the aniversary. It was a memorial for the victims...not a day to make an attempt to out the government. (just my opinion) But thats what makes our country great! We say whats on our minds.

So, although I couldnt see spending my sat mornings at groud zero, we can't fault Mark for doing what other full time "truthers" are doing.

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
Has Bruce Leeroy came to find you yet?

Who's the master?
*Obscure reference anyone?*

AAC

Hmmm...

The obscure refernce would be to a movie called "Berry Gordy's The Last Dragon"...

Pretty good movie...I'll give it several thumbs up...

FYI...

It's Leroy Green who is the Master ...

Sorry for the OT...

Carry...on...

Hello, and peace to all. I only wish, that you folks who "Buy into our Government's *entire explaination of what happened on 911", ect...
Please explain even a couple of the "Discrepences", between the government's (no prior knowledge,what?), explaination, and the solid
and obvious differences in the government's story, and the truths brought up in these TWO videos(short). I hope with the whole of my heart, as the true patriot that I am, that "There was no prior knowledge,or even participation". Good Lord that would be a hoor, I-F it held even "A Shred of *truth, huh? Have we all "forgotten M.Moore's "Farenhiet 911"?
just Please watch these two Videos , and please explain to me these, discrepancies...I have looked at this scenario with both 'deductive and inductive logic', and it still comes out that "We The People Have Been Lied To So Much, About So Many Things; that the 911 trajedy would not be the only horror imposed on "We The People", by our Government.
I hope I am wrong; and by the way, I do not attempt,ever, to 'push my beliefs on others'.
It does sadden me however to See So Many "Sheeple", ready & willing to believe whatever our Government says, is the honest truth.
...remember, our gov."knew Pearl Harbor was going to be attacked. The President allowed it, to "get America into The War". That's been admitted
as truth years ago. Believe what you wish. But if you can explain the
discrepancies in these vids, and what The Gov. has told us, Please do so. I'm listening and would love to 'trust our leaders a
4-education you should watch these!
let me know how to explain the government's
inconsistancies, lies, and practically 'obvious foreknowledge'!
I would love to truth in our government again!
*Peace,Hope,and Sincerity, LibBLVRdoc

Please Go to these, then Copy&Paste to browser
www.google video.com
Watch; Nick Nack Paddy Whacked@gvi.
also;
www.Remoconscious.com (The White Hip-HopArtist's Video,It Smacks)
(even If you dislike "Hip-Hop"Listen2HisWords!)

How painful to watch, that editing is horrible.