Art, the Shaman and a Quantum Physicist

I'm not sure if this is what you guys are talking about but sometimes when im looking up at the sky on a sunny day or a bright background i see these little orb like things floating around and seem to follow wherever my eyes go. I guess that could be explained scientifically, but who knows.

Also, at night I like to stare into the darkest corner of my room and I always see transparent shapes and things moving. Sometimes when I "get in the zone" and stare for a really long time in one spot every light source begins highly illuminated and it creeps me out. This also happens when I close my eyes and look at all the shapes and stuff in them except I sometimes see a yellow circle that gets brighter and brighter. And for some reason I always see Alien faces?? When i see those it brings chills down my spine (really bad chills) and thats when i stop looking. I hope I dont sound too weird or cracked out, but I've always been wondering the signifigance of what I'm seeing. I know theres a reason behind it and I know that it cant be explained by some scientific or biological answer.

The object you are seeing in your left eye... is it the left field of vision or particularly the left eye alone? Secondly, is this vision superimposed over top of your regular vision? To find out if it is only your left eye, block the vision of each eye by holding your hand in front of each. If your right eye sees nothing to the left, then I would think something is putting pressure on your left eyeball, perhaps.

It doesn't block my vision as such, but it's like looking through a transparent kaleidoscope during the day, then in the dark or when my eyes are closed I see the full shapes and colours, which change constantly. I did much reading up last night and will go and have the hospital check it out anyway.

On joining a group for shamanic practices, I would caution you to resist anything which involves fees. Shamanism is rising in popularity and the resultant crop of shysters is growing. There is a large amount of good information freely available on-line which is the best place to start. [snip]

Understanding the shamanic 'way' is a personal journey and is mostly 'self-taught'. It has more to do with changing your opinion about what is real and what is not than anything else. Once you are able to understand that reality is the dream and the dream reality, you begin to understand how the mind rules over matter. Question everything which you consider to be rock solid reality by delving deeper into the most advanced sciences you can find. (snip)

The Shamanic aspect to the group of people I've linked up with is just one aspect; thanks for your concern though. I've mostly been self-taught in this area for last 16 years (apart from Egyptology and Gnosticism, both of which were face to face) I already question everything (always have) and I have a good sense for sniffing out a charlatan so if I'm not happy there, I won't be sticking around

I also have strange things happen with my vision. Occasionally, while looking to the clouds, I see a "wormhole" for lack of a better word. It looks as if the sky is collapsing on itself.

Also, when I am falling asleep at night, I get a brief flash in both eyes. As if someone were shining a light in my eyes while theyre closed. It's enough to startle me.

Anyone know what these are? Or can anyone suggest a person I should see?

Originally posted by High Five
I'm not sure if this is what you guys are talking about but sometimes when im looking up at the sky on a sunny day or a bright background i see these little orb like things floating around and seem to follow wherever my eyes go. I guess that could be explained scientifically, but who knows.

Yes it can be explained scientifically - and it has a name: blue field entoptic phenomenon or Scheerer's phenomenon.
wiki
Those vibrating spots you are seeing are inside your eyes. What you are seeing
are leukocyte (white blood cells) moving through the blood vessels at the back of your eye.

Bigger one -floaters ...checked out the opthamologist.

Moving Spots
The retina in humans (and all other vertebrates) is actually "upside down"—that is, the photoreceptors are at the back of the retina, and the blood vessels, at the front. (Interestingly, the retina in invertebrates, such as the octopus, is similar in structure but "right-side up.") Therefore, light reaching your photoreceptors has to travel through your blood vessels (and a couple more layers of neurons) first. You might think that this should mean that you would see your blood vessels and other retinal neurons in your vision all the time, but in fact you don't, because your photoreceptors are designed to detect changes in the visual scene.

Your eyes are making very small movements (jitters) all the time. Even when you think you are looking steadily at something, the image of the object is actually moving slightly on your retina so that your photoreceptors can detect it. But the blood vessels and neurons are truly fixed on the retina, so your photoreceptors adapt to the light levels filtered through them and do not respond to their image. When you are looking at a very unstructured visual scene, such as a blue sky, with nothing more strongly patterned to distract you, you can often see the white blood cells moving in your blood vessels, precisely because they are moving rather than fixed in position on your eye. Moreover, when an optometrist shines a light into your eye to check your retina, the light projects the blood vessel image onto a different set of photoreceptors in the retina. Those photoreceptors respond to the image, and you can suddenly see the network of blood vessels in your eye. Conversely, if you were to wear special goggles that corrected for the tiny jittery movements of your eyes so that an image from the outside world would be truly stabilized on your retina, the image would appear to fade away as your photoreceptors adapted to its constant presence.

* I also see those vibrating, bright spots on sky...when is sunny they are moving very quickly...on clouded sky slower.

Regarding forms constant - I see (all the time) if laying in bed a and start looking at sealing -explosion of toroidal, negative curved geometry cloud patterns in mostly - extra bright violet color ....popping out form nothing..they can occupy whole room...same happened during staring at white wall in zazen position...

And off course - phosphenes when my eyes are closed...sometimes I d not need to rub them to produce these effecte.





[edit on 26-5-2007 by blue bird]

mate this is a top post. know i know what the hell i see (or i think i now know what i see (though i really think otherwise, being that i still see orbs ;-P... but this post really does put my mind at ease (thankyou ;-P))

See when i was laying in bed and looking at the end of my room, some light would come from outside streetlight and shin onto the top of the ceiling and i'd look at the light and overtime it looked like the room starts filling with spherical transparent orbs floating around.

Dont get me wrong. I like it and prefer it that way instead of those pesky...

Phospheromes.. lol ;p

You got my vote for way above top secret for the month mate.

Cheers.



[edit on 26-5-2007 by DaRAGE]

interesting topic there, masqua

beyond the phosphenes & entoptics we can access or generate,
(which can lead a person to consider the shared 'inner world'
as a form of commonality, unity & brotherhood
when wrapped in the spiritual path we know as shamanism...))
there's also extending one's vision.

consider being able to enhance your vision to be able to paint on
the darkened cave walls, as the famous France & Spain caves
prove that neolithic men did so, some 25,000 years ago.
Scientists mulled over the highly stylized cave art for decades,
some have stumbled over the explaination that artist-shamans
working in complete darkness were able to acconplish this
paradoxal modern-art.

i myself, & anyone motivated enough, can approach that level of
extending one's limits of vision.
on moonless & starless night skies, best if far away from light
pollution from cities, walk through a forest, you will acclimate
your eyes eventually, & eventually your skin and senses of smell, touch,
hearing will notch up dramatically...& in the dark, dark, you will be
amazed to see the texture of the bark & 'see' the ground & twigs at your
feet.
next, try to find a super dark, lightless cave...with practice & familiarity with this nocturnal world, the cave walls will seem to become irridescent
and seem to 'shine' on their own accord, revealing all the texture and
verticle & overhead landscape you've become part-of.

on another aspect of extending one's vision, i found it ?exhillerating(?sp)
to sit at a promitory, mostly/recently in the Smokeys/Appalachians,
and look at the vista of undulating woodland, and bringing my internal telescopic lens to play, to 'see' the forest from other than the vantage point of a camera's aperature set on infinity. I've heard tales which shamans would enter spirit/eyes of eagle and reconnaissance miles around...

thanks for listening

Originally posted by masqua
First will come the popular enlightenment as the film 'What the *bleep* do We Know has shown us. It is the closest the scientific community has come to understanding God and Deity.

The film "What the bleep do We Know" is farther from Quantum Physics than you can get. Most people who "like" Quantum Physics after watching that movie don't know the first things to the laws of Chemistry and Physics and what Quantum Physics is all about and the experiments that started the thoughts. They think it is "the world is a product of your mentality". Sorry that isn't what Quantum Physics is about.

Also...the scientific community has no understanding of any sort of deity (if there even is one). That is just you reading too much into things.

Many on here say that science is "behind" on "ancient wisdom". No, science isn't. Science never denies anything, it seeks to prove things and find answers. Science never denied that all things were connected, scientists just didn't endorse the idea because lack of proof.

That is the difference between science and fluff nonsense.

[edit on 26-5-2007 by RetinoidReceptor]

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
They think it is "the world is a product of your mentality". Sorry that isn't what Quantum Physics is about.

[edit on 26-5-2007 by RetinoidReceptor]

Wait what? I thought that is what Quantum Physics was about. Challenging Reality. The issues involved in the paradoxes centre on the collapse of the wave function, and the statement that a property does not exist unless it is measured. This has been taken to imply that there is no physical reality, or that consciousness is responsible for the physical properties of matter, and even to suggest that electrons could not have existed before Thomson discovered them. Ultimately one might conclude that the world was flat until the discovery of America. The issue then would be whether it was Columbus who was responsible for the change, or whether it was the American Indians, or even whether they lived in thesame universe.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

Many on here say that science is "behind" on "ancient wisdom". No, science isn't. Science never denies anything, it seeks to prove things and find answers. Science never denied that all things were connected, scientists just didn't endorse the idea because lack of proof.

That is the difference between science and fluff nonsense.

[edit on 26-5-2007 by RetinoidReceptor]

I don't believe modern science is behind on ancient wisdom, however we are only rediscovering what was already known. Like the ancient shamans and Hindus. Quantum physics and other physics are very similar in thought, but a different way of explaining them.

Originally posted by theRiverGoddess
Awesome thread Masqua

I second that. Wow! This is the only thread here on ATS that I have actually read every single post at least twice, in a long while.

This thread is really resonating with me well.

I so want to do the sweat lodge thing, but I am not sure where to go. I wish there was a legit one in Michigan or maybe even across the border in Canada.



[edit on 26-5-2007 by Realtruth]

Originally posted by AMANNAMEDQUEST
Wait what? I thought that is what Quantum Physics was about. Challenging Reality.

Wrong. Quantum Physics isn't about challenging "reality". It is about explaining (at least trying to) the quantum world. The quantum world and subatomic level is really bizarre and is not "normal", but quantum physics does not in any way suggest that this enormously small world is the way our very large world works.

The issues involved in the paradoxes centre on the collapse of the wave function, and the statement that a property does not exist unless it is measured. This has been taken to imply that there is no physical reality, or that consciousness is responsible for the physical properties of matter, and even to suggest that electrons could not have existed before Thomson discovered them.

Is this metaphysics or quantum physics? I am pretty sure that Quantum Physics does not point to the fact that consciousness is responsible for the physical properties of matter. I am pretty sure however that consciousness is responsible for the way we perceive matter though.

So Existence is not what one imagines it to be, as we synthetically reconstruct it and then “look” through the synthesis and believe this to be real …which it is, but only on a cerebral level. We therefore live in a world of illusion, a “neurological” reality that only partly reveals the nature of Existence to us. So we do create our reality, this is where Quantum theory comes into play.

i just wanted to thank you, masqua, for this thread. (i cant seem to figure out how to vote for you WATS.)
_______

i shroomed today, Tampanensis, and the information in this most interesting thread was forefront in my mind. i would like to confirm, with all the officialness that i am authorized to use, that these basic forms which you are referring to present the exact direction in which modern physicists should be searching in order to truly unify their theories.

not only did i see the static patterns with my eyes shut, but they were very distinctly part of my open-eyed visual experience. it is as though the world, itself, and all the people and things in it have organized themselves into these types of very basic patterns.

i whole-heartedly agree with you that it is probably very useful as a meditation devise, although it will take some work without the [poisonous] chemical assistence.

of particular note was this (from my blog):

"i collapsed under a tree and stared up into the clouds. i saw them in a way which i would swear i have not seen since early childhood. what i saw was very clear: the clouds were moving and diffracting the sunlight in such a way that it looked exactly like a transparent snowflake. it made so much sense to me: that water molecules should form into crystals no matter what their temperature. i could literally see the crystalline structure of the passing clouds, sitting upon an enormous natural pattern networked into the sky."

...even something as "chaotic" or "random" as a cloud formation has a basic underlying structure!


=dkp

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

Originally posted by AMANNAMEDQUEST
Wait what? I thought that is what Quantum Physics was about. Challenging Reality.

Wrong. Quantum Physics isn't about challenging "reality".

...on the contraty, retinoidreceptor, the macro world mirrors in every way to to the micro world.

for instance: we have a very real concept such as a "republican". all of the meaning inside of the concept "republican" is based on statistical probabilities, much the same as the interaction of sub-atomic particles. in other words, a person (particle) might identify with the current unified whole, "republican" (atom), but if you ask that person what exactly their position or velocity is, you will find that they probably do not agree totally with the full republican stance.

100% (or 0%) "republican" is a theoretical impossibility, but that does not make the concept any less useful or REAL.

...

on the other hand, it sounds like AMANNAMEDQUEST has been unduly influenced by "what the bleep".


dkp

Originally posted by AMANNAMEDQUEST So we do create our reality, this is where Quantum theory comes into play.

Of course we create OUR reality. But there is a "reality" if we are aware of it or not. If I have Alzheimer's disease and think I am 15 when I am really 86, that may be "my reality" but in actual reality I am 86 not 15.

And no...that has nothing to do with Quantum Theory.

Originally posted by tgidkp

...on the contraty, retinoidreceptor, the macro world mirrors in every way to to the micro world.

If that was so...then Quantum Physics wouldn't even exist and only Classical Physics would.

The reason why Quantum Physics is being explored because the subatomic world exists in a totally different and strange way compared to our macro world.

It's been months since this thread became inactive, so I'd like to revive it with an excerp from the Prologue to a great book... one that I'm re-reading at the moment and found that, in a way, ties in nicely with the topic at hand;

From Memories, Dreams and Reflections by C.G.Jung, Vintage Books Edition[revised] Random House New York, 1973

Life has always seemed to me like a plant that lives on its rhisome. Its true life is invisible, hidden in the rhisome. The part that appears above ground lasts only a single summer. Then it withers away - an ephemeral apparition. When we think of the unending growth and decay of life and civilizations, we cannot escape the impression of absolute nullity. Yet I have never lost a sense of something that lives and endures underneath the eternal flux. What we see is the blossom, which passes. The rhisome remains.

In the end the only events in my life worth telling are those when the imperishable world irrupted into this transitory one. That is why I speak chiefly of inner experiences, amongst which I include my dreams and visions. These for the prima materia of my scientific work. They were the fiery magma out of which the stone that had to be worked was crystallized.

Jung was 83 when he wrote those words.

notes;

Rhizome: An underground stem which is capable of producing a new plant similar in all respects to the parent plant

www.bluewaterlawnservices.com...

irrupted, irrupting
1. To burst into or enter (a place, etc) suddenly with speed and violence.

www.allwords.com...

What a quality-thread.

Good idea of reviving it. Us quality-seekers should be going through the archives cultivating the re-growth of these rare plants of threads.

Now excuse me while I go read the rest of the thread.

[edit on 17-12-2007 by Skyfloating]

I can only blame being so new to ATS for missing this thread the first time it came up. A great thread and very great work on your part in expressing the needed ideas my friend. You have put forth something with this thread that is wonderful. A star and a flag, and more if I only could.

Our journey must not only be outward, but inward.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

The film "What the bleep do We Know" is farther from Quantum Physics than you can get.

I agree that film was a little too cult-ish for me, but one of the scientists grabbed my attention.

www.tillerfoundation.com...

Personally, I feel he is on the right path.