question about aliens

Originally posted by Gazrok
Sure there's a logical connection. Religious fanatics are already killing their fellow humans who they feel are heretics and not the children of "their" God. You don't think it a logical conclusion to extend this classification of heretic to Aliens?

It surely would be nice sometime if someone responded to my post understanding what I said. I was responding to this quote, which should have been seen in context:

Religions will be thrown into turmoil as the proof of alien lifeforms will essentially disprove the existence of God.

I say again: WHY would "proof of alien lifeforms DISPROVE the existence of God?" I ALSO said, quite specifically, that earth-centric religions might suffer. There are your fundies.

Christianity states God made man in his own image. Wouldn't the presence of a more sophisticated being, unlike God's stated image, undermine such a claim,

I doubt it. They are all humanoid. Just a rough image. Besides, that is a pretty literal interpretation. Many Christians are somewhat circumspect about literal interpretations. The earth was supposedly made in 4004 BC on October 23rd at 9:00 in the morning, too. But even the Vatican is willing to say this is a metaphor and that they are comfortable with the findings of science. Perhaps you would not believe the state of modern Christian theological thought. It effectively says that Jesus was a charismatic guy with a popular message speaking in the language of his times.

The arrival of aliens (publicly) would be seen as either the second coming or armageddon by various groups.

I actually agree with this, but I don't think it's much of an unknown. Mainstream religion, imo, will go along with it. The crazies, well, they are already crazy and doing crazy things. What's one more? They are not in a position to sieze pitchforks and go kill aliens, even if they wanted to. Aliens are not going to march down the main street in Okefenokee with placards claiming God is dead and Jesus is gay. They'll stay out of the way.

I actually think 'the government' (like it's one entity!) has more to fear from a very angry populace for withholding the story. On the other hand, I think it is perfectly possible to handle this, too. I can just see senators getting up shaking their fists at the white house demanding answers for their constituents. And I can just as easily see the White House saying, "Hey, we just got here. We didn't know anything about this either."

It would certainly be a circus for awhile. It's one I would certainly enjoy seeing. But it won't wreak havoc on civilization. So Spock took off his wool hat finally and exposed his ears. Big deal.

Ed for spelling

[edit on 24-5-2007 by schuyler]

Grim, how can I prove that something might not exist? Surely to argue your case you have to prove that they exist.

I can't prove something that can't be proven. And neither can you.

Of course, I don't know either way. But I do know to rule out the military/air force/governments would be denying ignorance.

Originally posted by thesneakiod
Grim, how can I prove that something might not exist? Surely to argue your case you have to prove that they exist.

I can't prove something that can't be proven. And neither can you.

Thats exactly my point, and exactly why I think that you need to be open minded when discussing such topics. To just say that they do not exist is small minded.

Me , you or anyone else (as far as we are aware) cannot prove the existence of aliens but that does not mean they don't exist. We can't (yet) prove that they exist and as a result we can't (yet) prove that they do not. In order for us to be able to prove that they do not exist is to explore every single planet in the universe and then come the conclusion. Something that is way beyond our current level of technology. Therefore, the only logical conclusion is to say they might exist.

The fact that life has evolved on one planet doesn't mean that it cannot evolve on another, therefore, we can only speculate on what might be out there.

[edit on 24/5/07 by GrimUK]

Originally posted by thesneakiod
Grim, how can I prove that something might not exist? Surely to argue your case you have to prove that they exist.

I can't prove something that can't be proven. And neither can you.

Of course, I don't know either way. But I do know to rule out the military/air force/governments would be denying ignorance.

Again, you're stuck with the problem of trying to prove a negative, which is impossible because you can never know all of possibilities. Even if you could rule out the U.S. Air Force as being the source of these possible alien craft, you still need to rule out the U.S. Navy, which has a very active aircraft development program. And just because you ruled out the projects you know of, what about the black projects that only a few people are even aware of? How many black project UFOs are flying around? Who knows?

The sad thing is that even if there was positive proof of one brand of alien intelligence, it does nothing to prove or disprove any other sighting or encounter. And some UFO sightings can and have been EXTRA WEIRD. Far too weird to simply be explained as Star Wars aliens who look and act kind of like us who have traveled here from another planet. What about explanations for all that stuff, too?

I don't know. It would be nice if it was as simple as Star Wars, but the minute you get past the superficial common understanding of UFOs, the more complicated and bizarre it becomes, and ordinary explanations just don't fit.

So as far as the "truth" is concerned, I seriously wonder if it might just be beyond our understanding.

I don't know if flying sauce pans exist, but I'll tell you,
those cattle mutilations are Aaaawwwsome!!
I mean your butt is 'cored' out and your b*llocks are
surgically removed (ouch!)

I understand about doin' lectures and ripping off the
suckers who believe in this garbage, it's part of
life and it's good for the economy, but sheesh! have
you noticed how many of these people who show up
at these meetings are geeks!
They've never had a girlfriend and they have all the
episodes of X Files on Beta-Max (saddoes)

Oh and they always wear white T-shirts with a pithy
quote about Roswell on the front. Bonus!

No grim, the fact that there is no proof is evidence that they don't exist. Here, on, or around this planet I mean, not in the universe. I never said that.

I am open minded. Very much so that im here. And I have been for a while. And ive argued for both sides. I just don't see how with all the technology we have, you don't believe they could be man made.

And while this is all speculation, the fact remains that we're no closer to discovery than we were fifty years ago.

Originally posted by thesneakiod
No grim, the fact that there is no proof is evidence that they don't exist. Here, on, or around this planet I mean, not in the universe. I never said that.

I am open minded. Very much so that im here. And I have been for a while. And ive argued for both sides. I just don't see how with all the technology we have, you don't believe they could be man made.

And while this is all speculation, the fact remains that we're no closer to discovery than we were fifty years ago.

You could argue this to discredit your own statement that they are man made, where is your proof? Surely if we go by your logic, if there is no proof that they are man made then they too do not exist.

My agrument is that you cannot prove it either way and therefore you can't simply say that it is one thing and not the other. If you read my posts I think I made it quite clear that without proof of either you can't state one side of the argument to be fact.

I never once stated that UFO's are not man made, on the other hand I never stated that they are alien, which, as I have stated is my point. You can't say for certain that UFO's are either man made or alien, but since we don't know whether aliens exist or not we can't count them out.

As with your last statement, you are absolutely right, we are no closer to disclosing the truth, but this too does not mean that aliens haven't visited our planet and does not mean that they are man made.

Malakiem,
You my friend, are in luck !
We here at ATS have a few people who are in direct contact with our
"alien" friends on a daily basis . One has even been talking with them
for the past 17 years !!

I'll not divulge names, that would be glory-mongering.

I'll wait for them to respond on their own.

Lex

Originally posted by SuicideVirus

Originally posted by malakiem
Hi everyone, i've been hearing lately about how certain high ups in our government get briefed on the whole alien thing and know things about it. But my question is do you guys feel that anyone on earth might know the truth about aliens?

Does anyone know the truth about anything? I sure don't. History lessons are just agreed upon rumors. Religion is crazy stories you teach your kids to get them to behave. The news is just the same thing every day with slightly different names. Politicians say they'll stop the war if you elect them, then seem to forget about that after you do. The people you hire to protect and take care of you figure the best way to do that is to lock you up.

Aliens? Of all the possible truths, which one will make you happiest? If you knew the truth, do you think you would get to ride around to different planets and have fun like on Star Trek? Or would it make you happy to know that the Universe is teeming with life, and Earth is just a soggy little backwater inhabited by creatures that barely deserve notice by the more intelligent, long-lived, successful creatures?

Knowing, not knowing, whatever. What good is the truth?

The positive truth that would make the happiest would be to know the the universe and other dimensions were teeming with life. But if i did know the truth i wouldn't think i would be entitled to take a trip in a spaceship like star trek. My wish would be to have a confirmation to know there is, to know that were not the only intelligent things in the universe. To know that what you said in the first paragraph isn't the staple of life. To know that life isn't as linear, that time travel might be real, magic might be possible, invisility can be done. To know how to universe works, and to know how humanity got here, were we really evoled from apes? Or is it a big coincedance that we share dna and alot of similar features with them. But to answer your question, to know aliens are real would make me the happiest. To know if there evil or not wouldn't depress me or make me worry. But i can't honestly say how an alien acts from a human standpoint. Because all we know, certain things here could only be understood by man, like good and evil. Or even corruption. Knowing or not knowing to me is like having a little piece of the pie, to fill in a blank hole. It's sad to feel like going through life and there's really no surprises but a straight line until we pass. Know what i mean? Hope this answers you question suicide virus, hopefully you come back to the thread again. I Also had a thought, maybe they keep it secret to get that feeling of importance. That feeling of "i know something you don't". That special feeling. Maybe that's one reason.

Lexion: Who, like nancy lieder?

[edit on 24-5-2007 by malakiem]

[edit on 24-5-2007 by malakiem]

yeh we can always depend on lexion giving completely oblique claims with no attempt to back it up. And all just to be involved with the discussion while at the same time contributing NOTHING to it.

Originally posted by malakiem
It's sad to feel like going through life and there's really no surprises but a straight line until we pass. Know what i mean?

I don't know if it's sad. What about the lowly blood cell? It's alive, you know, floating around in your bloodstream, doing its job of lugging oxygen around to the various other cells in your body, which are also quite alive and conscious. And then one day the little timer in that blood cell switches off, and it's job is over and it dies and reverts back to the mix of chemicals it's made up of. Then some other little critter sucks up those chemicals so that it can live. And so it goes, on and on.

When that blood cell dies, is it sad if it never has an afterlife, if its tiny little consciousness never experiences Blood Cell Heaven?

Is it sad that it never really knew the truth? That as tiny as it was, it was still very necessary to keep you alive, in order for you to play that great song on the guitar, or look up into the starry sky and think about aliens? Because it didn't. The truth was far beyond its ability to understand. It was just an ignorant little blood cell that lived and died. Just like you and me and every human being on Earth.

I guess that's the funny thing about truth. It's one of those things where the closer you look at it, the less it exists. So when you ultimately get to it, there's nothing there.

Originally posted by thesneakiod

yeh we can always depend on lexion giving completely oblique claims with no attempt to back it up. And all just to be involved with the discussion while at the same time contributing NOTHING to it.

Ask, and Ye shall receive :

Originally posted by EarthSister

I know because I have personally known many people of many alien races for a long time. My husband and I have been working with them for seventeen years, learning about them and helping other humans who have contact, and the scientists and investigators, understand the goings on about them. We know them as people like we are people, just all different race to race, all as alien from each other as we are from any of them.

Enjoy,
Lex

Edit to fix a speeling erorr.



[edit on 25-5-2007 by Lexion]

Does it really matter whether or not we believe in extraterrestrial intelligent life? What I believe is more important is for the average person to become more aware of their world, including hovering objects in the sky.

I have become aware of 'black rectangles' hovering in the daytime. Around 1990, I used to see black dots in the sky that would appear in my peripheral vision, and I would see them on very sunny days. As time went by the dots appeared closer and took on more shape. Now the black objects are the size of 10 story buildings, only horizontal, and they move slowly in the sky, if at all.

I can train my eyes to see them for about a second or two. They then dissapear and I look away from where I saw them, and I can see them again for another second in the same place or maybe moved a little bit.
Sometimes the 'black rectangles' are hooked together in the sky so it looks like they are twice the length. I have also seen them in an L shape.

It doesn't matter where you are, every place I have been where there is a major city or highway, or bridge, the 'black rectangles' are there. I have travelled all over the Bay Area in California, I have seen them at the San Jose flea market, at an offramp in South San Francisco, in Hawaii, in Los Angeles, Riverside, and Seattle, WA are all places that they hover. I have seen them so many times over the last 18 years, that I think they are everywhere.

Everytime I leave my house and look up, I see them. There are at least 1 to 3 within viewing distance no matter where I am.

Periodically, I have checked the internet to see if anyone else is having this experience. I believe that Zypher has seen in Dublin, CA what I see. The 'black rectangles' tend to stay near major highways and they love bridges.

One time a 'black rectangle' was about 25 to 50 feet above my car by the San Francisco airport. I saw this one for about 4 or 5 seconds until it peeled away from my vision from left to right. The way it dissapeared showed me that it was still there, just out of sight.

I don't know if these objects are natural, man-made, or extraterrestrial.
One theory I had was that the black objects were some kind of tear or rip in the sky, due to some change in the atmosphere. This seemed less plausible after the black dots turned into black lines and then black rectangles.

Another possibility, there is a new technology that the US has created where the aircraft are actually just blades that spin so fast no one can see them. (Like when you look at a fan and can see the blade for a second) Maybe we have aircraft that work like helicopter blades without the helicopter and people are inside the blade. This could also be extraterrestrial technology. It would explain why I can see them only for a second or two. Also if the blades stopped rotating, then anyone who is not really looking could see them, until they start rotating again.

I know of one person in LA who can see them, and I have not kept in touch with him, he was in a UFO group with me. I stopped going to any Mensa meetings or UFO groups because other things are happening in my life that is alot more "normal" and fun. To me, alien craft are a part of my life and I have been waiting for more people to see what I see. I did not think it would take this long.

Everyone who reads this, can see the 'black rectangles' in the sky. They are really obvious once you know how to see them. You have to be a little out-of-body and using your "third eye" or peripheral vision. It is kind of like turning to see someone is looking at you and you catch them. They are sometimes 100 feet off the ground and sometimes a mile away or so. Maybe you will see black dots at first. Just be more aware of the sky when it is sunny and you are outside.

This is not a joke. My eyes have been checked for diseases as well as my brain. I am actually a little near-sighted so I guess it doesn't matter if you have 20-20 vision.

Dougl, sounds to me like you have an eye condition called Floaters. I'm not taking the p*** I have them too. Its a condition where the vitreous fluid within the eye solidifies and cause black or transparent floating spots in your vision. The spots can take any number of shapes and forms and can be undetectable to opticians unless its a pretty bad case. The fact that you see them more when its bright or sunny, and that you are near sighted are classic indications that this is what they are. Take a look at this website:

Wikipedia

There's loads of info out there just google it.

[edit on 26/5/07 by GrimUK]

Thank you for the suggestion, but I do not have "floaters" I have had my eyes checked periodically and I have told several different eye doctors what I see in the sky. They found absolutely nothing wrong with my eyes. I did check again on the internet about floaters and it is nothing like what I see.

It is amazing how people can dismiss so easily things that they cannot experience or explain.

I hope there is someone out there who has an open mind to the possibility that the 'black rectangles' are in the sky. Look on the internet about 'black triangle' and you will see something like what I see in the skies.

Dougl, I'm not dismissing your claim, just trying to offer you some alternative explanation to your condition. I believe you when you say that you see these black rectangle and if you have had professional advice and they can't explain it either, then I too remain perplexed

Just one point though, you keep mentioning black rectangles and then right at the bottom of your last post you say triangles, are you making this up or was it a genuine mistake?

Have you ever seen anything else, or are they always black rectangles?

[edit on 26/5/07 by GrimUK]

[edit on 26/5/07 by GrimUK]

Quasar - don't move to Australia. I live in Oz and it pains me to watch it sink into the morass of Californication. Move to New Zealand - it still has honour and morality. I'd move myself but family comes first.



Disclosure about UFO/ET will come when earth governments have manipulated the masses to where they want them. The wrangling, posturing and warring that occurs now is to get the US and its puppet states in a position to establish their ascendency post-disclosure.

Hi, No, I am not making this up. I only suggested the possibility that my 'black rectangles' are similar to what is on the internet right now where they show a picture of a 'black triangle' and it looks more elongated and possibly similar to what I see.

I see the black rectangles for about a second or two and then they fade out of my vision. They are usually still in the same exact location even if I am travelling in my car. I can see them also when it is not real sunny too.
In the early 90's the objects were farther up in the sky so they appeared like dots and slowly over the years, they have gotten closer to the ground.
The closest black rectangle was above my car and it was alot bigger than my Toyota celica. The way it dissapeared was similar to that toy (I cant remember the name of it but you can draw on a piece of cardboard and you take the wax paper and lift it and the drawing dissapears.) the black object dissapeared from left to right just like that toy. These objects are now closer to us and they are always present and like I said there are one to three of them in the sky no matter where I go. I usually have to look at them a certain way to see them. Sometimes, I don't see them and sometimes I forget about them and bam! they are right there, again. When I am out of the Bay Area, I notice that the 'black rectangles' in the sky are at a farther distance in other areas of the west coast and they sometimes are just several black dots in the sky. I have seen several hovering over the bay when I cross the Bay Bridge or the San Mateo Bridge.

If this was a visual problem that I have, why do I not see them inside? I know what you are saying about "floaters", that happened to me a few times after I have sneezed really hard. Those are on the surface of the eye and move about when my eyes move. The 'black rectangles' are fixed in the sky most of the time. They do not move about like "floaters". Plus they are solid black and have no reflection. I do not see any details like flashing lights, gizmos. The flying black rectangles are solid and have 90 degree edges that are sharp and distinct. These flying rectangles do not always lie horizontal to the ground. Sometimes they hover at an angle and sometimes the 'black rectangles' are attached together.

I do not see them at night. The only reason I can see them so well in the sky when it is sunny is because they are completely black. They just don't belong there. I don't know if they are UFO's or sentient, they could be holes in the sky for all I know. I believe that they are sentient because of the fact that they were farther away and they creeped closer to the earth maybe because no one could see them and also I believe they are sentient because they move and sometimes connect to each other. I feel like they are watching us. What I thought was going to happen was that everyone would start seeing them. I think that Zephyr saw one and that is why I am writing this (see Black-Hole type of UFO sighting over Dublin)

Maybe they are waiting for us to destroy ourselves with global warming and nuclear war. I wouldn't blame them if they inherited the Earth because we destroyed ourselves. Kind of negative, I know, but why would there be so many?

Oh, and they are definitely black rectangles and not triangles to my perception. Thanks, Dougl

Thanks for clearing that up Dougl. I must agree with you now, doesn't sound anyhting like Floaters. I just hope that what you are seeing isn't a threat to humanity

It astounds me that some people still believe stuff they
find on the internet, it's just tosh!
Most people cruise the net looking for any rubbish that'll
show that they're not alone and there's more to their sad
existence.
This may seem mean, but think about it, you're in the prime
of your life and your here... alone, tapping away stories to
total strangers.
Okay, the world is mysterious, people die and YOU don't
know how it happened, but that doesn't make a conspiracy.

An object is SUPPOSEDLY seen and whooooa, that's it, we're
all Mulders and in the end we get the gal.
No, sorry... look around at your room, this is it.

Any images you see of UFO's are hoaxes, no aliens, no
conspiracies, just you, wishing your life was more exciting.