Canada School Shooting, Teen Critically injured in Toronto

However, I do not see any of these coming out of Europe/rest of the first world. Perhaps we just don't hear their news? Input from some Europeans would be welcome, as I am curious if this happens over there as well?

Well, Germany had it's big school shooting, Erfurt, with 16 dead and another in Emsdetten with more than 30 wounded.

We didn't have school shootings in Switzerland, but we had some very prominent and disturbing amoks and family tragedies in the last few years.

The rest of europe, I don't know. I'll have to dig a little more.

Originally posted by Realtruth

Well it's not just the US, Canada seems to be having problems also.

Yup, we've had our fair share of school shootings since Columbine. Only eight days after the Columbine shootings a boy was shot dead in a school in Taber Alberta. Canada has seen several school shootings since then.

Originally posted by WuTang
When i lived in Calgary two years ago there was at least a gun shot a day, and often 3 or 4 shootings a week.

That is quite the exaggeration.
I live in Calgary now and have for the past 16 years. You make it sound like shootings are common place but it is far from it. It is true that as this city grows crime grows with it. In 2005 there was a spike due to some gang related violence in the month of March. That year in Calgary there was a total of 26 homicides.

Originally posted by WuTang
Tell me one thing the gun registry has done besides cost 10X more than we were told. 90% of guns used in gun crimes in Canada are UNREGISTERED. The majority of that remaining ten can best be tracked by looking up the house they were stolen from...

I've heard police officers say (in news interviews) that it helps them when they answer a call to a house to look up if any guns are registered there. Does it account for illegal guns? No. Is it perfect? No. Did it cost a ton of money? Yes. Will anything be gained by scrapping it? No. The money is already gone.

Originally posted by WuTang
As for federal politics, the conservatives are looking the least likely to steal my money *sigh*(sad to vote like that) so thats where my votes goes. In the end whoever wants it the most will suckle on Quebec's ass the longest, so they are the only winners (besides Ontario's occasional bone). Everything Harper promised for me was a lie, but thats another story. At heart I'm an roughneck Alberta separatist, as I'm sick and tired of this gigantic inefficient waste of money we call a bureaucracy

The Conservatives are just as likely to steal your money, and along the way turn Canada into a USA "war on liberties" clone. You're right that Harper lied, they all lie. They say what they need to in order to be elected. They have no intention of ever keeping promises. Why else does one get into politics except for the money and power?

Originally posted by WuTang
Beyond that, most gun crime in Canada is illegal sidearms, which aren't even possible to register. ITS A LONG ARM GUN REGISTRY. Very very few gun crimes are committed with registered long arm guns.

Well, those four Mounties in Alberta and that female police officer in Quebec were all shot by long guns, so, it does happen enough that it should not be dismissed out of hand.

Originally posted by iori_komei
On a side note, the article said Collegiate Institute, does that mean this 14 year old was in College?

Just to respond to your question here, a 'Collegiate Institute' is a High School...grades 9 to 12. Well, 12 since they dropped Grade 13 in Ontario.

The news about the shooting is indeed sad. Posters have commented that the Jane/Finch area is a bad part of town, but they are trying to engage their youth to make something better of themselves. Lots of hardworking families...yes many Caribbean immigrants...but they aren't the ones that make the news.

My personal feeling is that any gun crime should produce a mandatory 10 year sentence. We do have good gun laws, but they are generally plea-bargained off in the first 10 minutes. Make it a guaranteed 10 year bit, and these thugs would think a little differently about carrying a piece for 'status'. My 2 cents (Cdn).

Originally posted by WuTang

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
Very untrue. The sad events In Montreal during march (feb maybe) illustrate we are just as prone to large school shootings as anyone else. We had the wave of copycats after columbine too (See: taber school shooting). This seems to be a problem that occurs all throughout North America.

However, I do not see any of these coming out of Europe/rest of the first world. Perhaps we just don't hear their news? Input from some Europeans would be welcome, as I am curious if this happens over there as well?

No gun, no problem .....when your politicians will understand i mean WHEN? You cowboys
I don't say nothing happen over here but things with guns are kind of rare nowadays..and it's ok like this

[edit on 23-5-2007 by themaster1]

Ok so much to say.

Start with calgary; yes, that march was brutal, and yes; as i said before most gun crime is gang related, and most civilian casualties (ie the boy in TO last year) are crossfire related. However, by gunshots i meant people would hear guns going off at night, which took place almost nightly. Also, many shootings dont cause deaths (20 odd deaths, 60 odd shot?) (not too sure on numbers, perhaps i will whip up an email to CPS or city of cgy). Either way incidents are getting more and more common, im just hoping the gangs keep it to themselves to solve their problems with each other, not problems with unarmed every day joes.

As for the Harper hater, how has Harper eroded your freedoms? How have the conservatives shown they are as bad as the liberals. I cant believe how quick people forget. Hell there are still stories coming out every week about things people are finding out the liberals stole. I mean Harper enacted whistleblower protection, wow what an erosion of freedom BUSH NWO AAAAAH! CONSERVATIVE AAAH! That word means evil.

Harper isnt using government money for an ad campaign.
Harper isnt giving low interest loans to his local golf club.
Harper isnt stealing boxes of confidential staff information from his oppositions offices.
Harper isnt taking money for his friends that was supposed to be for a poor native community.
Harper isnt spending billions of dollars on programs that accomplish zilch (at least not yet )

So what has he done to erode our freedoms?
He appointed a senator so he could put a leading expert in a field on his cabinet, when he called for senate reform.
He had a liberal cross the floor to join his cabinet (a liberal who is considered one of Canadas leaders in the softwood lumber dispute (which by the way is finally making some progress))

Thats all i can come up with, how else has he eroded freedoms or stole money?

EDIT: As for Mayorthorpe, the guy had a giant collection of guns, yes a few were registered, but the vast majority were unregistered illegal firearms. This guy was a crackpot, and the RC were executing a non gun related warrant on him, so i dont see how the LA GUN REG helped at all in solving this crime. Even without the gun reg, this guy would still have been caught.

HOW DOES A GUN REGISTRY SOLVE GUN CRIMES?
HOW DID IT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE IN YOUR STATED EXAMPLES?
People dont kill people
People with unregistered guns kills people

My personal feeling is that any gun crime should produce a mandatory 10 year sentence. We do have good gun laws, but they are generally plea-bargained off in the first 10 minutes. Make it a guaranteed 10 year bit, and these thugs would think a little differently about carrying a piece for 'status'. My 2 cents (Cdn).

I think this exactly what we need. Its not so much the laws themselves that are the problem however, it is our appointed judges who are the ones not sending people to jail for gun crimes.
[edit on 23-5-2007 by WuTang]

[edit on 23-5-2007 by WuTang]

Originally posted by WuTang

He had a liberal cross the floor to join his cabinet (a liberal who is considered one of Canadas leaders in the softwood lumber dispute (which by the way is finally making some progress))

So the Liberal was Belinda Stronach. Oh, wait, she was the trophy Tory that crossed the floor to the Liberal Cabinet. So sorry.
I'd say this topic shouldn't really encompass any more politics than necessary to address the issue of Gun Crime. I'll Tory-bash with the rest of them, but this is a thread about the death of a 14 yr old.

Wow! I thought only this kind of stuff happen in America. Something really needs to happen everywhere or kids will know they can take a gun to school and shot and maybe kill someone to resolve there probelms. Very sad! This stuff didn't happen maybe not as often like 50 years ago. Hope the guys okay and makes it!

Originally posted by WuTang
As for the Harper hater, how has Harper eroded your freedoms? How have the conservatives shown they are as bad as the liberals. I cant believe how quick people forget. Hell there are still stories coming out every week about things people are finding out the liberals stole. I mean Harper enacted whistleblower protection, wow what an erosion of freedom BUSH NWO AAAAAH! CONSERVATIVE AAAH! That word means evil.

Harper isnt using government money for an ad campaign.
Harper isnt giving low interest loans to his local golf club.
Harper isnt stealing boxes of confidential staff information from his oppositions offices.
Harper isnt taking money for his friends that was supposed to be for a poor native community.
Harper isnt spending billions of dollars on programs that accomplish zilch (at least not yet

)

So what has he done to erode our freedoms?
He appointed a senator so he could put a leading expert in a field on his cabinet, when he called for senate reform.
He had a liberal cross the floor to join his cabinet (a liberal who is considered one of Canadas leaders in the softwood lumber dispute (which by the way is finally making some progress))

Thats all i can come up with, how else has he eroded freedoms or stole money?


[edit on 23-5-2007 by WuTang]

First of all I never said I hated Harper, just that he was the same as other politicians who use their power to help themselves more than they help society.
Secondly, you don't honestly believe that the Conservatives do not use/waste tax dollars to treat themselves to some luxuries and perks, do you?
www.ctv.ca...
How has he eroded our freedoms? How about keeping people in jail for unlimited amounts of time with no trials, charges, or even being allowed to see the evidence against them? How about the upcoming War on Drugs which the USA has proven to be a "folly and a menace."
www.canada.com...

Social conservatives have long resented the charter, contending that activist judges have usurped the role of Parliament with liberal interpretations that have extended rights beyond anything contemplated by politicians. Harper himself has occasionally echoed those views.

www.ctv.ca...

That's all I will say on the matter in this thread. If you wish to debate in another thread or on the politics board, then OK. My condolences to the family of the deceased.

[edit on 23-5-2007 by TheComte]

Harper's a minority leader, leading Canada for a short period. But I think this thread's about School killings in Canada and it's sad that any children or teens are being harmed or killed at all, within Canada or elsewhere.

I don't know what the statistics are on bullying v retaliation but I do presume bullying plays a significant role?

Dallas

So sorry to hear the child did not survive.

Well I agree with you all that the politicians are not going to do anything, but make more rules and laws, while half of the ones they have made already have not been enforced and are basically impossible to enforce 100% of the time.

Chris Rock (actor, comedian) once said in a joke, the way to end gun violence was to make the cost of a bullet $5,000.00. He then pretended to be the angry guy, saying something along the lines of, "Man you done made me so mad, I'm gonna kill you, just as soon as I get me a second job and can buy that bullet!" Chris Rock made more sense on ending gun violence than the majority of our politicians!



[edit on 23-5-2007 by goose]

Originally posted by goose

Well I agree with you all that the politicians are not going to do anything, but make more rules and laws, while half of the ones they have made already have not been enforced and are basically impossible to enforce 100% of the time.

Politicians tell people what they want to here or what people want to believe, then they get lobbied by large corporations who use them as pawns. Politicians for the most part are just like the bubble headed bleach blond news reporter, they just read what is on the prompter and collect their paycheck.

Hey Realtruth, yes I can easily see your point. But Canada's minority Gov is a little less likely to push extreme buttons. Budget time comes and they could be voted down, forcing an election. Harper understands that. As yet he's not asked for an election as he knows he's not earned the majority Cdn votes. Probably why he's so engaged in speaking 3/4 French during press conferences...he needs that big vote come election time.

Dallas

Originally posted by WuTang
However, I do not see any of these coming out of Europe/rest of the first world. Perhaps we just don't hear their news? Input from some Europeans would be welcome, as I am curious if this happens over there as well?

In my country (The Netherlands) we only ever had 2 shootings at schools (for as far as I know).

In one shooting a teacher killed a principal or something like that (1 dead, that's all).

In the second one a kid killed someone else. (Dunno the exact amount of wounded / dead, but it was low, REAL low, like, 1 or 2 low).

There also was a near shooting once, some kid wanted to kill someone after fighting over some girl, and when he shot his revolver it didn't fire, so the other kid took the revolver, went to school, and well, he gave it to the janitor.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by WuTang

He had a liberal cross the floor to join his cabinet (a liberal who is considered one of Canadas leaders in the softwood lumber dispute (which by the way is finally making some progress))

So the Liberal was Belinda Stronach. Oh, wait, she was the trophy Tory that crossed the floor to the Liberal Cabinet. So sorry.
I'd say this topic shouldn't really encompass any more politics than necessary to address the issue of Gun Crime. I'll Tory-bash with the rest of them, but this is a thread about the death of a 14 yr old.

YOu have your politics confused. David Emerson is the liberal that crossed to help with the softwood lumber dispute (van riding). It was an erosion of charter rights b/c he joined the caucus (you can't cross the floor for political gain/position IE CAUCUS) (However since he helped solve softwood disputes i can live with it)

Belinda went from conservative to liberal for no reason other than an upcoming election (which after becoming part of the minority, she quit (comedically bc her father was gonna buy chrysler, then didnt))

And unfortunately when someone gets shot in Canada, federal gun policy is always the first thing that we (and the media) bitch about.

COMTE: i agree this is not the place to discuss federal wrongdoings, however i do feel this is a fine forum for discussion on federal gun policy (although it is getting off topic ~concur~).

I would still like to see a link showing me a crime the FGR has solved, i would be interested.
(and hardcore drug policy, which i wholeheartidly disagre with, is something that i chose to accept happening with a conservative gov (not that the 30 years worth of lib appointed judges would enforce said "war on drugs" policy.

Oh yeah and i like how you cited a canwest source after ctv, i cant stand lloyd and his cronies. Bring on Newman and Sunday night Ezra!!!!

[edit on 24-5-2007 by WuTang]

Originally posted by WuTang

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by WuTang

He had a liberal cross the floor to join his cabinet (a liberal who is considered one of Canadas leaders in the softwood lumber dispute (which by the way is finally making some progress))

So the Liberal was Belinda Stronach. Oh, wait, she was the trophy Tory that crossed the floor to the Liberal Cabinet. So sorry.

YOu have your politics confused.

No, I don't have my politics confused. I'm being sarcastic.

Sorry to but in after missing 2 pages of posts but Ive come to the conclusion after reading about a kid being shot in the face for his Xbox in the UK that shootings have nothing to do with guns. The places with weak laws have shootings the places with strict laws have shootings. The only thing the laws do is pacify those afraid of shootings. They in no way deter or prevent shootings.

What I do believe is to blame is population density, conflicting ethnicities and cultures, the collapse of the family unit be it through divorce or just dual income homes. All of this and more being focused like a laser through music, television, movies, games, internet all right at the developing and tormented brain of an adolescent. Most can handle the onslaught of madness and a few cannot. Its just life and lifes variables.

Now how the hell to you legislate that?

Originally posted by WuTang

However, I do not see any of these coming out of Europe/rest of the first world. Perhaps we just don't hear their news? Input from some Europeans would be welcome, as I am curious if this happens over there as well?

Dunblane Massacre

Scroll down near the end.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Sorry to but in after missing 2 pages of posts but Ive come to the conclusion after reading about a kid being shot in the face for his Xbox in the UK that shootings have nothing to do with guns. The places with weak laws have shootings the places with strict laws have shootings. The only thing the laws do is pacify those afraid of shootings. They in no way deter or prevent shootings.

What I do believe is to blame is population density, conflicting ethnicities and cultures, the collapse of the family unit be it through divorce or just dual income homes. All of this and more being focused like a laser through music, television, movies, games, internet all right at the developing and tormented brain of an adolescent. Most can handle the onslaught of madness and a few cannot. Its just life and lifes variables.

Now how the hell to you legislate that?

finger on nose
well said