Secret plans to turn staff into police informers

From The Times
May 21, 2007
BY Francis Elliott, Chief Political Correspondent
Full Article

Council workers, charity staff and doctors will be required to tip off police about anyone whom they believe could commit a violent crime, under secret Home Office plans.

Civil liberties campaigners last night said that the proposal raised the prospect of people being placed under surveillance and detained even though they have committed no offence.

It would seem it's becoming a world-wide police state. I wonder if there would be any liability involved if it could be proven that a person had knowledge that another could be considered a risk, yet didn't feel compelled to report it. Could we hold this person responsible if this were to pass?

I think things are getting a little wacky with domestic surveillance and homeland threats. Reminds me of a witch hunt.

Would this benefit the general public or do more harm in the long run?

[edit on 21-5-2007 by tyranny22]

Just remember if you have not done anything wrong you will have nothing to worry about. So says the Targeted Individual who is currently under 24/7 survellence.

You would think a thread like this, on a forum like this would get more play. It's a shame that it has not. This is part and parcell of what's coming down the line.

How many times do people say things out of context, or act in a manner that is not normal for them or unbecoming to what one person considers normal.

The problem with these meseaures is they will again be used wittingly or unwittingly to target specific individuals, and the other problem is you will have people who will use it as a revenge or blackmail service. Wither to blackmail someone directly or indirectly.

I mean if they want someone to do something all they have to do is ask council worker, or doctor to recommend that person for 24/7 survellence. It's like pre-emptive war measures, and you see how well that worked out. We will have people being placed under 24/7 survellence till some of them either hurt themselves, or hurt others, then the people behind it will feel justified and be able to say, we were right in our original assesments, not taking into any consideration, that when you place people under these sorts of long term survellence measures, that these are the end results that you will get.

I think this would be interesting to study, but it's all little tentacles of the octopus, that is this push for global dominance, and a controlled society, by spies, snitches and other survellence measures. It's really horrible that we do not discuss this stuff, and petition it.

Although petitioning this stuff now adays, might just get you on a list to be monitored in the future. All overt appearences of dissidence will be treated the same way.

However, some senior Whitehall officials are concerned at what they consider to be a significant extension of information-gathering which will, in any case, be ineffective. There are concerns too, that the system could be used to spread malicious smears.

You think? Ofcourse it could, and ofcourse it will.


[edit on 21-5-2007 by Harassment101]

Originally posted by Harassment101

You would think a thread like this, on a forum like this would get more play. It's a shame that it has not. This is part and parcell of what's coming down the line.

How many times do people say things out of context, or act in a manner that is not normal for them or unbecoming to what one person considers normal.

Although petitioning this stuff now adays, might just get you on a list to be monitored in the future. All overt appearences of dissidence will be treated the same way.

[edit on 21-5-2007 by Harassment101]

Yes. It's a shame that it's become common place for news article such as these to no longer draw attention from the very people it affects. A sad police state of affairs.

In the United States you could be black listed for coughing in the wrong direction it would seem these days. I was talking on the phone the other night and got to talking about Bush and his administration and started in on my opinion about war crimes and what not. Then, that in turn led to discussion about traitors and punishement for deserters; talking about hangings and firing squads. It's enough to make a man paranoid being on a forum such as this and saying the wrong combination of word on the phone.

Who knows who could be labeled a domestic threat these days. One day you or I could end up missing. Thrown in a complex somewhere to await a military tribunal. And there's nothing anyone could say or do about it. The thing is, it's not too late. We all could try to change this legislation ... with the right support.

Just like the old day Witch Hunts. Im sure back then the same old petty jealous BS went on, so whenever a woman batted an eye and another man and his wife saw it, she could run to the witch police and claim that woman is a witch. 99% of the time a claim was all they needed, so petty squabbles would be handled by turning in your neighbors.
The current form is nothing new though really. After 9/11 the police even recruited plumbers or the pizza delivery guy.. (Hey that bastard shorted me on my tip, hmmm that flour on the counter looks more and more like coc aine to me every minute)
Yea its always the same argument from people. "if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear."
Lets look at this scenario. The guy comes to install your DSL modem and comes across a few perfectly decent images of the familys 7 year old daughter on the pc. The pics are decent and he only sees a few but this 20 year old kid, not knowing the girl is family, starts thinking well if he has these types of images here, then the really bad ones must be hidden deeper in the hard drive. He informs police, they come and arrest the man and take the computer, the mans not able to afford bail so he must set in jail, losing his job, while he waits on forensic experts to deep search his drive.
The man has no porno but hes got sites like this in his favorites where hes made some rants against America, could even say something like, well the US deserves to lose in Iraq etc...
Now its gone from searching for child porn to searching for terroristic threats in his posts or email... If his life wasnt ruined after the false child porn charges, it will be now..
Yes, i know that was a very extreme case scenario but its not unlikely. I dont take chances and am very careful how I word things in anything I do.

This is a global phenomenon. I have been a targeted individual for 14 years here in Canada. Now because I have become an activist and I am very vocal in my city about this, it would appear that efforts are being made to shut me up by trying to pin a mental health rap on me. I have signs all over my car about gang stalking and I am very visible here in Nanaimo, B.C. as well as very vocal.
Just 2 days ago, I was paid a visit by what is called here 'car 87'. This is a program in the Vancouver and Vancouver Island area. This program is meant to address mental health issues in our area. One police officer and a psychiatric nurse pay a visit to anyone who is deemed to be a threat to themselves or others. Well, it would appear that I was deemed a threat in some way. Fortunately, I had the foresight to request that a witness be present to video tape this 'interview' and for some reason the car 87 team did not want to be video taped. I told them I used to work for both corrections and child welfare where I had knowledge that reports resulting from such interviews could be skewed. The female, who I will presume was the psychiatric nurse, was noticeably perturbed with my request to video tape the interview and she said she would not agree to be video taped. Of course my response was no interview then.
Gang stalking/organized group stalking is the outcome such 'reporting' and yes such 'reporting' can come from citizens who are hell bent on destroying someones life. My stalkers have tried to discredit me and tried unsuccessfully to isolate me from my family and friends. Because I am so believable in my community; I have the support of my family and friends; and I have much knowledge of the justice system, my stalkers are having a difficult time 'handling' me. Others who fall victim to such a phenomenon, are no so lucky. Their lives are destroyed and generally speaking they do not have the skills or the money to fight this. I do not have the money but I definetly have the skills to out smart these guys. If there is anyone out there who believes they are a target of such harassment for Gods sake do not go to the police unless you have concrete evidence otherwise you may end up in a mental institution as many other targeted individuals have found out. Once they discredit you like this it is very difficult to fight them. Anyone who feels they may have been fallen victim to this ever growing travesty of justice and would like help can contact me.
[email protected]

Originally posted by tyranny22
I think things are getting a little wacky with domestic surveillance and homeland threats.

Man you got that right. Ive just been officially warned, and threatened with fines, because I look at Iraq/America/Bush and so forth while on a midnight shift.
My managers, an official from melbourne and a direct phone interview with the American Home Base of my company, asking me where my 'morals' stand, and the sort of people I associate with.




[edit on 22-5-2007 by Agit8dChop]

Originally posted by Agit8dChop

Originally posted by tyranny22
I think things are getting a little wacky with domestic surveillance and homeland threats.

Man you got that right. Ive just been officially warned, and threatened with fines, because I look at Iraq/America/Bush and so forth while on a midnight shift.
My managers, an official from melbourne and a direct phone interview with the American Home Base of my company, asking me where my 'morals' stand, and the sort of people I associate with.

[edit on 22-5-2007 by Agit8dChop]

wow. that's crap. next thing you know they'll be telling you what your morals are and where you stand on the issue. what ever happened to universal freedom of thought, speech and expression?

seems now that if you're not inline with the mainstream views of things you could be "labeled".

Where does the line get drawn that enough is enough?
The hardest part of informing is convincing others that it is for the good of their neighbors. Once citizens are ok with reporting on each other, then the easy part is begun. What is legal today is now no longer legal and the line shifts. You are getting reported for almost anything.

where does it end?

Originally posted by iamcanadian2
Now because I have become an activist and I am very vocal in my city about this, it would appear that efforts are being made to shut me up by trying to pin a mental health rap on me.

This seems to be the route that we are following here in the UK with the expansion of Home Office powers.

Revisions to broaden the scope of the Mental Health Act allied to the NHS 'Spine' central database and pre-emptive assessment of 'potentially violent' citizens make such an option a whole lot easier. Even frequenting this site and discussing these issues can even lead to an individual being labelled paranoid/unstable/delusional and give cause for intervention, and if so warranted, enforced detention and medication.

If you think that I'm going kooky and paranoid on this subject, just re-read Agit8ed's post above!

Council workers, charity staff and doctors will be required to tip off police about anyone whom they believe could commit a violent crime, under secret Home Office plans.

[...]

Danger signs used to identify an individual as a potential perpetrator might include a violent family background, heavy drinking or mental health problems.

I drink heavily almost every single day and if some Rat Bastard Government agency starts harassing me about it then I most probably will commit a "violent crime" -- against them.

Get the [REDACTED] out of my life you [REDACTED] Pigs!

Back to the caves!

Originally posted by tyranny22
From The Times
May 21, 2007
BY Francis Elliott, Chief Political Correspondent
Full Article

.

Would this benefit the general public or do more harm in the long run?

[edit on 21-5-2007 by tyranny22]

I think to an extent civil liberties is everyones god given right, however as long as it does not affect the security of the nation.



probably would not cause much harm at all. if any, kind of make everything a little more structured.

This post originally came from a multistalk forum I belong to. I thought I would share with you as well.
Debbie


I'm echoing this article, originally posted by Allen Barker -
many thanks to Allen for finding this obvious threat to
targets of organized stalking and electronic harassment:

Revealed: Blair's secret stalker squad

www.dailymail.co.uk...
in_article_id=457934&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

Fears that doctors could be used to lock up terror suspects
without trail by JASON LEWIS

Last updated at 21:21pm on 27th May 2007

The Government has established a shadowy new national
anti-terrorist unit to protect VIPs, with the power to detain
suspects indefinitely using mental health laws.

The revelation is set to reignite the row over the Government's
use of draconian measures to deal with terror suspects amid
accusations they are abusing human rights.

The Fixated Threat Assessment Centre (FTAC) was quietly set up
last year to identify individuals who pose a direct threat to
VIPs including the Prime Minister, the Cabinet and the Royal
Family.

It was given sweeping powers to check more than 10,000 suspects'
files to identify mentally unstable potential killers and
stalkers with a fixation against public figures.

The team's psychiatrists and psychologists then have the power
to order treatment - including forcibly detaining suspects in
secure psychiatric units.

Using these powers, the unit can legally detain people for an
indefinite period without trial, criminal charges or even
evidence of a crime being committed and with very limited rights
of appeal.

Until now it has been the exclusive decision of doctors and
mental health professionals to determine if someone should be
forcibly detained.

But the new unit uses the police to identify suspects -
increasing fears the line is being blurred between criminal
investigation and doctors' clinical decisions.

It also raises questions about why thousands of mentally ill
individuals have been allowed back into the community -
including some who have attacked and killed members of the
public - while VIPs are being given special protection.

Scotland Yard, which runs the shadowy unit, refuses to discuss
how many suspects have been forcibly hospitalised by the team
because of "patient confidentiality".

But at least one terror suspect - allegedly linked to the 7/7
bomb plot and a suicide bombing in Israel - has already been
held under the Mental Health Act.

The suspect, who was subject of a control order and cannot be
named for legal reasons, later absconded from the hospital and
his whereabouts are unknown.

Hi tyranny22.

Who knows who could be labeled a domestic threat these days. One day you or I could end up missing. Thrown in a complex somewhere to await a military tribunal. And there's nothing anyone could say or do about it. The thing is, it's not too late. We all could try to change this legislation ... with the right support.

It seems that people are just waiting for it to get that bad. They don't seem to want to face the reality that it is that bad in some ways. It's like it's not registering yet, cause people have not been hauled off to the jails that they are building as enemy combatants. I guess people are waiting for that to realise hey, it's that bad.


Hi Kr0n0s.

Now its gone from searching for child porn to searching for terroristic threats in his posts or email... If his life wasnt ruined after the false child porn charges, it will be now..

Don't forget the part afterwards, where he tells them where to go and where to stick it, and then they have him investigated for the rest of his life for being nuts or disturbed.



Hi iamcanadian2.

What were you calling it before you were calling it gang stalking? When did you realise that you were a target of this harassment? How?


Hi Agit8dChop.

Man you got that right. Ive just been officially warned, and threatened with fines, because I look at Iraq/America/Bush and so forth while on a midnight shift.

That is really scary. I just shaking my head. Officially warned? What is that?

Oh but as others on this forum will tell you, if you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about. I wonder if they just get paid to say it sometimes, or if they have said it so much they believe the retoric.


Hi tyranny22.

wow. that's crap. next thing you know they'll be telling you what your morals are and where you stand on the issue. what ever happened to universal freedom of thought, speech and expression?

seems now that if you're not inline with the mainstream views of things you could be "labeled".

Seems like this is how society has always been to a degree. Kids in school who are not fitting into the mindless conformity of it all are getting labeled. This just makes them outcasts, and label someone a certain way, treat them that way, and eventually they might act out that way. Oh well.

So they will tell you what to think, how to feel, and from what I can see, most people will like. They are just so accepting of this. That's the hard part.


Hi shadow watcher.

Once citizens are ok with reporting on each other, then the easy part is begun. What is legal today is now no longer legal and the line shifts. You are getting reported for almost anything.

Well said. Get them use to telling on one another for extreme things and then the simple things will follow. They don't even blink about it, and they seem to like it. I have never wanted to live in East Germany due to the whole snitching thing, growing up here it always sounded so awful, and I thought my fellow citizens felt the same way. I was wrong.


Hi citizen smith.

Revisions to broaden the scope of the Mental Health Act allied to the NHS 'Spine' central database and pre-emptive assessment of 'potentially violent' citizens make such an option a whole lot easier.

So many scenarios I can think of.

What if you get a big medical bill and refuse to pay?

The doctor does something uncoth and reports you before you can report them?

What if you are into alternative medicine, or prayer for healing and they think it's nutty?

What if you tell them off for something legit?

What if your enemy bribes your doctor to report you as nuts?


They are making it so easy to take away peoples will's. When you do finally wake up and see the system for what it is, you will be labelled, if you don't go along with it. Who knew the world was like this.


Hi Morbo.

I think to an extent civil liberties is everyones god given right, however as long as it does not affect the security of the nation.

So you are going to be ok with the chipping and tagging, and possibly camera in your bedroom and car? Ok. As long as it's good for the security of the nation. Yeah.

probably would not cause much harm at all. if any, kind of make everything a little more structured.

Hitler's regime was pretty structured. Was that what you had in mind, or something more Stalin like?

[edit on 29-5-2007 by Harassment101]

Originally posted by Morbo

I think to an extent civil liberties is everyones god given right, however as long as it does not affect the security of the nation.

Perhaps the younger generation in this nation has been already prep to take anything a control government will do, but for the older generation that knew before. . . and now is facing the after. . . we will fight with nails and teeth to preserve those god given rights so the younger generation still understand what democracy and freedom means.

probably would not cause much harm at all. if any, kind of make everything a little more structured.

How more structured you want your own for the people elected government?

Or you forgot that government is elected to serve the people no the people to serve the government.

Perhaps you may feel better under a dictatorship. . .

[edit on 29-5-2007 by marg6043]

"Report impaired drivers" - I've seen that sign, on an expressway, with a phone number to call. So, if I don't like you, I will watch you while you are having a couple of drinks at your favourite bar, and I will report you after you drive off.

How far is it from "report impaired drivers" to "report suspicious individuals"?

Originally posted by swimmer
"Report impaired drivers" - I've seen that sign, on an expressway, with a phone number to call. So, if I don't like you, I will watch you while you are having a couple of drinks at your favourite bar, and I will report you after you drive off.

How far is it from "report impaired drivers" to "report suspicious individuals"?

well actually, that's entrapment. if you were driving along and seen me swerving and called, that's totally legit.

So, I guess what I'm saying is ... Don't report terrorist if they're smuggling in nuclear arms, just report them when they start assembling them.

LOL.

Seriously, I understand the point you're making, but don't know if it's comparable.

How far is it from "report impaired drivers" to "report suspicious individuals"?

What's the difference they ask people to report both. It goes in degrees don't it, and then you don't even notice it, and one day all your freedoms and rights have slipped away.

I don't understand some of the younger ones up and coming, they don't seem to get. (Neither do some of the older ones, but the younger generation seem accepting of this new snitch society.) Maybe cause they have had the MTV, the Jerry Springer, the obey, conform, do what you are told. The extreame PC upbringing that we thought was going to make them better people, maybe it made them more mellowed, and whimpy and willing to accept this.

I just don't get how a nation of people could come to this in such a space of time. I do understand now that these plans have been in the works for years. Degree, by degree, till one day, you are that frog in boiling water and you are cooked, before you know it. (It's true I guess, if you put a frog in boiling water they will notice, if you put them in cold water and turn it up, degree by degree they will not notice it. Who knew we were so like our Amphibian friends.)

I get that a lot of people just don't want to beleive it, and just won't believe it, and I don't blame them, but I do realise that unless they get it, and on a massive scale really soon, we won't be able to change this. If we even can change this.

All we need is one more big disaster, be it plauge or otherwise, and they will have them. They already have the infastructure and enough people snitching to control the populous. The overt forms of tracking are also right on target. It would not take much, just one really bad event, and then you have full on police state. (That even can be orchastrated or otherwise.) Then by the time everyone is ready to protest it's too late. They are not testing out none lethal weapons in Iraq for nothing. They are also not just building additional jails on American soil for nothing. I think they realise that there might be a time when the sheeple snap out of it and try to rise, and they will be ready. Will we?

Hi iamcanadian2.

What were you calling it before you were calling it gang stalking? When did you realise that you were a target of this harassment? How?

Hi harassment 101
It was three years ago that I realized I was in the middle of something big. Three years ago my dog went missing and I was broken into. I decided to do my own investigation and discovered there were many such break ins in my neighbourhood and there had been such break in for years. I found a woman who had suffered the exact scenario as I did only she came home to her dog dieing on her doorstep. She was broken into the day after I was. I discovered that my neighbours on both sides of me were involved in the break in. Because I was nosing around my neighbourhood gathering info the surveilance was beefed up. In the beginning I called them 'the bad guys' and I found that the ones who were following me had ties to my neighbours. My neighbours harassed me, but I also harassed them. In addition, I also followed the ones that were following me. It was at a later date that suddenly I saw that the people who were following me were ordinary citizens, were American tourist, and also I was followed by the Canadian military. This is when they were making it apparent to me that I was followed. By this point, I did become concerned and started to tell my family and of course they thought I was delusional. I knew by this time every conversation on my phone was monitored. One day I was going out with my sister and her husband in their car, so they baracaded my street by setting up a RV in the middle of the road and had a man and a woman sitting outside the rented RV reading newspaper while lounging on lawn chairs. This of course helped in my efforts to prove to my family that something strange was going on.
In my efforts to find out what was going on I just kept researching the Illuminati on the net. Somehow I stumbled onto this forum (ATS) and it was you (harassment 101) who read one of my posts and sent me to gang stalking world. That is when I found a name for this global phenomenon. I subsequently posted something on gang stalking world, but it would appear that now I am not able to access my account at gang stalking world any longer. I have become an activist and now paraded around my home town here in Nanaimo, B.C. with signs all over my car about gang stalking. I am a member of a multistalk forum, where I have managed to connect with others who are targeted Individuals (TI's). In addition, I would like to add that I have found in my area alone 6 people who are also TI's. I live in a city of only 80,000 people so that gives you a good perspective of how big this global phenomenon is.
These 'guys' do not scare me and I determined to expose this crap to the world. I now have the support of my family and the perps have not been able to discredit me even though they tried by sending car 87 (I mentioned this on previous post) to my door. I am believed in my community and thus I am a threat to the perps.
Debbie

[edit on 2-6-2007 by iamcanadian2]

Originally posted by tyranny22

I think things are getting a little wacky with domestic surveillance and homeland threats. Reminds me of a witch hunt.
[edit on 21-5-2007 by tyranny22]

In my opinion its nothing like the Salem witch hunts. The Salem witch hunts it was not only government but you friends and neighbors on the look out. This in reality is just the government. People have lost the want to care so they are not going to turn in any one.

I base this opinion on the fact that we have let alleged criminals stay in office and not thought twice about it. We wine moan and groan about it but we never do any thing.

It is just my opinion based on my own personal observations. I've been wrong before but I dont think I am wrong this time.

Originally posted by angryamerican

Originally posted by tyranny22

I think things are getting a little wacky with domestic surveillance and homeland threats. Reminds me of a witch hunt.
[edit on 21-5-2007 by tyranny22]

In my opinion its nothing like the Salem witch hunts. The Salem witch hunts it was not only government but you friends and neighbors on the look out. This in reality is just the government. People have lost the want to care so they are not going to turn in any one.

I base this opinion on the fact that we have let alleged criminals stay in office and not thought twice about it. We wine moan and groan about it but we never do any thing.

It is just my opinion based on my own personal observations. I've been wrong before but I dont think I am wrong this time.

I am in agreement that it is the government that is involved in surveilance, but as far as the general public NOT being involved, I DISAGREE WITH GREAT ENTUSIASIM. I have discovered that our local community watch program (Citizens on Patrol) are involved in the stalking and harassment of Me, my sons and 6 other people here in my area. The Citizens on Patrol have been
grossly misinformed. Falsified files have been presented to the Citizens on Patrol and they believe what is presented to them because of course ex police officers are in charge of the community watch programs. The most popular form of slander is to accuse the target of being a pedophile because everyone hates a pedophile. Not only do the citizens on patrol monitor targets like me but they are encouraged to nose around their neighbourhood and report on any suspicious behavior and suddenly someone else becomes a target of this covert war. The end result of this covert war is that the stalkers will try to ruin your life first through slander; interfere with your employment so that you get fired and cannot find a job and become destitute; try to discredit you in the community by harassing and stalking you and when you call the police of course they do not believe you; then your family starts to disbelieve you and voila, you are now discredited and no one will believe you. Because you lost your job or can not find work you now have no money to fight these guys.
Well guess what, they have not been able to do this to me as I am self employed, my family and friends believe me, and now the general public are taking me seriously.
This kind of crap does exist my friend, just research gang stalking on the net and you will find more than enough info from different sources to confirm what I am saying. I would send you to a site that I use as info, but it seems that after I put an ad in 23 cities across Canada about gang stalking and advertised the site www.catchcanada.org , this site suddenly went down. They counter much of the activism I currently do, but they have been unsuccessful in discrediting me. Did you happen to read a previous post of mine on this topic about me and how they sent car 87 to my door? This is so very real and I know it is hard to believe for the average person until..........IT HAPPENS TO YOU!!!

Debbie

[edit on 2-6-2007 by iamcanadian2]

[edit on 2-6-2007 by iamcanadian2]

[edit on 2-6-2007 by iamcanadian2]

[edit on 2-6-2007 by iamcanadian2]