How Can you prove that God exists or not exist

Hi
I am the one who started the thread.
My question stands:
what use if Man got a proof ( logic or picture or what have you)
what proof is that??
we know from history that every time man got a proof or evidence or logic or theory it got vendicated years later, Newton by Einstein, einstein by qwarks theory, etc.
Also, what peoof is it worth, if man can not prove that we are actually existant and are not in a dream ( read Descartes: The Method)

So the best proof we had is the testimony of so many prophets came approving the previous prophet ( long chain on thousands of years) because they did not have a proof but they recieved the messege from higher beings who claimed they are massengers of God) ( ie angel Gabriel

Originally posted by adnanmuf

So the best proof we had is the testimony of so many prophets came approving the previous prophet ( long chain on thousands of years) because they did not have a proof but they recieved the messege from higher beings who claimed they are massengers of God) ( ie angel Gabriel

First off you can never prove nor disprove the existance of any god due to the nature of the belief. SO you can't even use the 'hallucinations' of the so called prophets as proof as these are unfounded subjective experiences.

You'll need to come up with something a bit better than that but as I said you cant do it!


G

but how can you explain all those prophets had the same halucination called Angel Gabriel ( The Holy spirit) you see it in ezekiel Daniel Jesus Moses David and Mohammad even though they are on span of 2000 years!!!???How come the other religions ( that don't recognize one god don't have that halucination called Gabriel). Zarathustra and the many hindu and buddist prophets and others never talked about Gabriel (the Holy Spirit) .
What can you make of a proof of God existance if it come out tomorrow ( scientific proof from NASA or what ever), since man in not complete and imperfect then his judgement and proofs are also imperfect.

Originally posted by adnanmuf
but how can you explain all those prophets had the same halucination called Angel Gabriel ( The Holy spirit)

the angel gabriel isn't the holy spirit...
and it's obvious that only the first one had the original idea and all the other people that went on drug trips just thought that it was the same person as that first person.

you see it in ezekiel Daniel Jesus Moses David and Mohammad even though they are on span of 2000 years!!!???

moses and gabriel? where does that happen?
jesus?
daniel?
i don't recall those

How come the other religions ( that don't recognize one god don't have that halucination called Gabriel). Zarathustra and the many hindu and buddist prophets and others never talked about Gabriel (the Holy Spirit) .

ok, this is a bit incoherent, but if i understand you right i'll try...
they never talked about gabriel because they had never heard of such a character...
it's quite obvious. you won't think you saw something you've never heard of

What can you make of a proof of God existance if it come out tomorrow ( scientific proof from NASA or what ever), since man in not complete and imperfect then his judgement and proofs are also imperfect.

um... news flash, nothing is perfect.

anyway, if there was proof god existed... well, i'd become a deist until the nature of said deity was determined.

Originally posted by JessicaS
I've noticed that things of faith can go either way. One person can point to one thing and say "God exists because....." and someone else can use the same point and say "God doesn't exist because..."

In the end, it's all a matter of faith, either you have faith in god, or you have faith that god doesn't exist.

The only way to prove god's existence is if God came down from where ever and started doing things. Even then... I don't think that will be enough proof.

YES. It is black and white. Either you have faith or you have doubt.

first of all, nobody has to prove that god DOESN'T exist. saying god doesn't exist is merely stating that there is no logical reason to believe in the existence of said being, it's a negative statement.

What your saying does'nt even make sents. When you say there is no God, your saying he does not exist. That is not saying there is no logical reason to believe. Maybe thinking before talking might help.

first of all, nobody has to prove that god DOESN'T exist. saying god doesn't exist is merely stating that there is no logical reason to believe in the existence of said being, it's a negative statement.

What your saying does'nt even make sents. When you say there is no God, your saying he does not exist. That is not saying there is no logical reason to believe. Maybe thinking before talking might help.

The simple thread-ending answer to this question is this.

You cannot prove that God does or does not exist.

The lens with which to see God is faith.

Faith is a hard pill to swallow, but once you do, you will be healed. It is a medicine of utmost importance. A panacea for all dis-ease.

Originally posted by depth om
The simple thread-ending answer to this question is this.

You cannot prove that God does or does not exist.

The lens with which to see God is faith.

Faith is a hard pill to swallow, but once you do, you will be healed. It is a medicine of utmost importance. A panacea for all dis-ease.

the lense you see god with is one that already has god painted on it?

no, the lense you'd see god with, were such a being to exist, would have to be reason, it's the lense that everything else in the universe is seen through

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
the lense you see god with is one that already has god painted on it?

no, the lense you'd see god with, were such a being to exist, would have to be reason, it's the lense that everything else in the universe is seen through

No, I said faith is what allows you to perceive God and enter a Personal relationship with him. Set your mind and body on his track, following his will and the personal plan he has for you.

Of reason and human logic, I'll let the Bible speak for itself.

1 Corinthians 3:18-23 (New International Version)

Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a fool (realize he knows little) so that he may become wise (in the wisdom of the Lord). For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness"; and again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile."

Also, faith is merely a tool to use. What matters is what you put your faith in.

Faith is your mirror. Receive and reflect what you may, but choose wisely. Have faith in yourself, or the being that steered occurrence and element to create you.

[edit on 28-8-2007 by depth om]

Originally posted by slymattb

first of all, nobody has to prove that god DOESN'T exist. saying god doesn't exist is merely stating that there is no logical reason to believe in the existence of said being, it's a negative statement.

What your saying does'nt even make sents.

Maybe your thinking of making 'sense', try learning to spell when your attacking someone for not making 'sents". The little red line under a word means its spelled wrong and if you right click on it it will give you a selection of spelling choices - how nice of ATS.

When you say there is no God, your saying he does not exist. That is not saying there is no logical reason to believe. Maybe thinking before talking might help.

That is like me saying to you that an invisible non interfering wiggypig created your god - is it logical/reasonable to believe my claim of the wiggypig's existence when its obvious that there is no possible way to prove or disprove my claim????


G

That is like me saying to you that an invisible non interfering wiggypig created your god - is it logical/reasonable to believe my claim of the wiggypig's existence when its obvious that there is no possible way to prove or disprove my claim????

I am not going to debate weather God exist or if he dont.
The topic as to leading I believe was that Faith is the way to find God. Which is true. The reason you wont find proof, is because of faith, if there was proof there would be no faith or free will.

Originally posted by slymattb


I am not going to debate weather God exist or if he dont.
The topic as to leading I believe was that Faith is the way to find God. Which is true. The reason you wont find proof, is because of faith, if there was proof there would be no faith or free will.

That is the truth.

God wants you to come to him and acknowledge that the feeble mind of man cannot bear the weight of his full being, and it cannot comprehend the mysteries it finds. In another 20 years there will be a new theory, a new postulate. "We now know it all!" Then God will throw mans knowledge for a loop. Back to square one.

God's word is unchanging. Laid bare for all to see from the start of things.

there were two ants argueing about evidence of God untill one of the ants did find undisputable proof according to the senses and mental or neurological nerves that ants have that he does exist.
The other ant agreed and they went back to the ants big house and the evidence stayed undisputed for five hundred years untill another ant found a mistake in the Hypothesis. A man heard the two ants talking but he could not get it because his senses and mental abilities is far superior to the ants.
End of the Story Good night and sweet dreams.

so logic of man can not prove something far superior to man abilities and senses to comprehend or detect.
However a man from a good family came 7000 years ago Noah by name, and he told his people that he saw an entity he named the Holy Spirit that came from heaven and told him that he brought a massege to Noah from God who created everything .
The man was trusted among his people and some believed him.
After a thousand year another man with same qualities among his people ( different people) came with same massege and the same story about entity named Holy Spirit...
However another man after a thousand years came and told the people he saw God directly and he saw two shapes of God ( dark and white) he never mentioned the angel Holy Spirit guy. He was not trusted and most people did not know him before.
Another thousand year passed and a nother man came with the same massage of the first one! Holy spirit from sky and a massage from God, yet after another 500 years a man came and said that he saw God directly and he saw him like three entities in one, he was not trusted by his people and His name was Paul.
and after a thousand year..... you know the rest of the story.
So who do you likely to believe, the line of prophets with the same story or the other guys with different stories and not being trusted ( the first one if you did not figure him yet his name is Zoroaster.......Nice dreams