Bugging out during sit x

I was just tossing around a few ideas and was wandering what everyone thought about this possibility.......

I live in a medium sized city 1 million + however 1 have 2 military installations very nearby. I might as well name it Jacksonville, Fl. I will be purchasing some rural property soon with the expectation of living there fulltime one day, possibly living both places for a while. In a sit x 1 believe my city may be spared but I would still want to get the heck out of dodge. What is everybodys thoughts on bugging out several hundred miles? Could it be done with a small commuter plane? Maybe I should find a smaller parcel closer by to bug out to or use as a secondary bug out location.

Thanks for your thoughts.

When to bug out isnt as hard as deciding how to bug out. Its one of the topicks on The ATS survival forums that nobody seems to agree on. We have talked alot about it when the forums first started, so you may want to look back for better research.

Personaly I feel a plane while being nquick is also a quick way to die. It just drews to much attention. Thats just the way I see it. I'm sure others will have there own opinions.

Personally I am working on a complete custom designed BOV. I have alot of experiance building race cars, using that knowledge is an advantage when it comes to building you own 4X4 BOV.

Remember that a plane is pretty much useless in sitX, mainly because governmet will feel weak and most likely airspace will be closed to prevent anyone from taking an advantage over the governments weakness. (This applies to all countries, not just US of A)

If the terrain is mainly open farmland/desert a 4x4 is viable option, but if you have forrested area with only major roads going through they may be very slow or useless. Motorcycles are better, but only if you know how to ride cross country with heavy loads. (not an easy feat, especially in winter)

My prefered transportation is the Mk.1 Apostol, walking is safe, stealthy and there is no place you can't get to.

100 miles trek on foot is doable, it'll take a 4-5 days if you're resonably fit, after the first 100miles your speed will most likely fall to about week/100 miles, but that rate can be sustained for an indefinite time. (as long you can keep yoursef supplied)

It wouldn't be a bad idea to make a midway stash somewere along your route, so you don't have to stop for food gathering.

Ps i've done a 90km in 48h carrying 40kg load and a rifle, all data is based on own/friends experience in forrested conditions.

My standard reply to this question has always been "It depends". While having a preselected destination is great that is betting that the destination will be safe and that transit to it will be possible. In any Sit-X there will be significant restrictions on travel, availability of fuel and routes of clear passage. More than likely some combination of panicked populace and government restrictions are going to block most travel. Getting out of high population density areas will, however, be a priority. As resources (and especially information) begins to run out things will turn ugly.

Good question... with too many variables to give a blanket answer. In my situation, I have a family that I am responsible for which will certainly limit my options.

This is my contingency plan - I own 10 acres in a very rural area of Ohio about 100 miles SE of Cleveland. There is a solid cabin on the property, a spring-fed well and a brand new septic system with leach field. The cabin is heated via a wood-burning furnace and has 2 pot-belly stoves (One in the basement next to said furnace and one in the kitchen area. It also has a huge fireplace - I also have about 7 cords of seasoned firewood under cover. The cabin is provisioned for 6 persons for 3 months.

I think that I would probably bug out much sooner than most other people given the fact I have to travel with a family and tote more supplies than I'd like - plus I'm ready to go in an instant. If there was an infrastructure failure and travel restricted to foot, we could still make it in about a week's time albeit without many luxuries that we'd like to take. We already have all of the clothing, food, water and supplies we need to live comfortably in the cabin for many years.

Being that it is very secluded, low population density and sits high atop the property affording a clear vew for several miles, I feel that it would be our safest option.

Thanks this is all great feedback. Personally I was trying to hold out until I can purchase 100 acres + and permanently move but now I will still do that but maybe in the short term find something cheap within 100 miles as a contingency. I can use the cheap small place to continue my stocking and preparations until I can work out the larger place within the next two years.

If all the roads are closed and you need to go via fields in your 4x4, isn't it going to be a severe pain in the ass climbin out every 500 yards to open a gate? And sooner or later your going to come to a dead end or other obstacle that can't be crossed for whatever reason.

How to get to a place in a desaster is THE single hardest aspect of this. You can own as much ground with a propery on it as you like but if you can't get their you are done for. We don't know what the situaton will be, so we can't even begin to figure out how to get to location X.

The best thing you can do is plan how you would get their without using the main roads in your area. Even if you can do this the roads could be jammed because of people trying to escape to anywhere. So the best advice i can offer is to leave as soon as you possibly can, don't sit and wait to see if anything happens only to be trapped inside your city and have to walk you sorry ass all the way.

On a side not, what would people advise me to do... I live in a village with no more than 3k people. I have never been able to decide what would be better for me, its in that gray area of not quite out in the country and not exactly a city.

Bless you manta. It seems like people miss an important point: Let's say you have bought a nifty little cabin out in the boonies and have taken vacations fitting it out with all manner of nifty survival goodies. Then one day Sit-X hits with very little if any warning. Panicked masses are all heading out of dodge. Do you risk it? Based on what information? How can you judge what the roads will be like 100 miles from where you are... maybe 3 or 4 hours from now? How 'survivalist' will it be sitting out Sit-X in standstill traffic 50 miles from home as the National Guard herds people from the traffic into waiting areas?

In my opinion (yes I've said it before) communications capabilities are the least considered survival preparation. It is imperative that you have real-time capability of knowing what is going on beyond your neighborhood and how thaings are developing. You must assume the phones, internet and probably power are down or maxed-out. Now what?

Given my knowledge of Jacksonville, I lived there for four years, if the area isn't developed you got some very rough land to cross on foot. Swamps and forests is what he faces folks.

For sake of arguement if you live in the Green Cove Springs/Orange Park or Switzerland areas, then you have boat options for heading south on the St. John's. Heading north just puts you at Jax NAS or passing that Newport. Being on the river is now picnic as both Cecil Field and NAS use that island for bombpractice runs. Jax Beach area is slightly if you can appropriate a good boat and do a coastal run north or south and get lucky. Again Mayport and NAS have the radar and air recon to spot you. Heading south means a long trip to the gulf and coming up in another gulf state. Odds are a bit better here, provided you can make the long trip without capture or detainment. Best part about open water is that you can fake knowledge of current events.

There are a few secondary roads to Georgia that would be hard to shut down without felling trees as the majority of forces would have to control the interstates. Or drive west and then head northwest between Live Oak and Tallahassee and make your way towards Alabama. Or you could try to ride it out in the Okefenokee if you think you can make a go of it there.

Okefenokee might be a good hiding spot because no one in their right mind would try to follow you without good knowledge of the area. That really depends on your faith in survival skills to try it. Personally I'd take my chances with the prison camps instead, but that is me. It isn't so much the gators, snakes and disease bearing insects in there so much as a wrong step is very unforgiving in places. The rumors of it being the final resting place of Flight 19 isn't very encouraging either.

Originally posted by manta

On a side not, what would people advise me to do... I live in a village with no more than 3k people. I have never been able to decide what would be better for me, its in that gray area of not quite out in the country and not exactly a city.

Depends on the town, your participation and knowledge of the people. If you are fairly prolific among the community or are good friends with people that are. If do or have thought about runnng a small mom and pop store or coffee shop or ice cream parlor you would be amazed and the stock the small town communities place in such people. Could join or start a civic group or community chamber of commerce.

If situation involved a chance of shelter in place and defend your area you would find those small towns have lots in common. Like hunting? Find others through the local taxidermist or bait shop.

Strength in numbers so in small towns it is an advantage to know and be known by as many people as you can. Being involved with different groups like little leauge goes a long way. might not be able to coach, but can help paint/repair/mow the grounds and buildings. Small towns always have some kind of festival, get involved with planing, run a booth, or clean up detail. In other words being social and donating your time can be very good. Think of it as karma investment.

One minor point in this bugging out plans has been overlooked. What about the people you encounter on the way to your hidey-hole?

I live in a small town of only 750 souls, pretty rural in itself, and a sure way-stop for travelers to safety. I will leave here for a mountain retreat that is even more remote when I judge the time is right. Small towns could become very hostile battle zones.

I know small towns. These are 'run' by petty dictators in most cases, people of long standing in the community. As an 'outsider', even passing through, you will be viewed with suspicion, and maybe outright hostility. Roadblocks, turning away travelers would be a big possibility. Gasoline and other supplies might not be readily sold to unknown persons.

Towns, roads, passage itself, may be barred on a local level before it becomes a problem in more urban settings. If the threat was perceived to be biological, that is almost a given.

While most state and federal resources are going to be concentrated on the larger centers, in a panic situation, local authority will likely be some cop with a couple of hastily added deputies. Being scared, their 'final' decisions may prove fatal to some travelers.

Also to be considered is the vigilante/mob syndrome. In a panic situation, reason gives over in the face of fear. And if you are carrying guns, food, medical supplies, cash, survival gear, etc..., these could make you a target for robbery or at least confiscation.

A hideout that can be reached with a minimum of travel, which is not glaringly prosperous looking, and away from main roads may be better than the perfect hideout that can never be reached. The ability to look innoffensive without appearing weak, would be another advantage, when you do meet folks.

Personally, my plans call for NOT moving on the news of a major disaster, precisely because I don't want to get stuck in traffic, or rounded up at the first police roadblock.

Lately I've become very insterested in shortwave radio, and am flirting with becoming a broadcaster. IF I go this route, my goal will be to broadcast from off the electrical grid (I can already receive without electrical power).

If there is economic/social unrest, my plans call for staying put until I can decide what team to play for.

In the event of storm/ dirty nuke / meteor strike, I plan to leave as quickly as possible; taking cash, weapons, and legal documents, but less emphasis on survival kit. Basically, this option is for when I think the disaster will be regional but not . . . universal. For this mode, I have a route blocked out that involves paved, two lane rural roads that lead to relatives/friends who are like minded, and we'd be welcomed into the community. Our sedan can make it on one tank of gas; the suv will need the extra gas-cans in the shed that I keep "for the lawnmower."

The month after Katrina, my town received about a hundred Katrina refugees. Some of them showed up as the storm hit. They expected to be wiped out, and were asking about the local job market, etc. Most of them had cash and vehicles, plus family keepsakes. They are doing O.K. a few have stayed and put down roots, tho some started drifting back as soon as the news said the roads were open in Louisiana. For these folks, a lot of "survival gear" would have been useless impediments, in a hotel room in a midsized city that was otherwise unaffected by the disaster.

But it turns out your high school and college diplomas are a lot more valuable when you are trying to get certificiation as a teacher or a prison guard or whatever in a new state. If you have your homeowners' documents, you can file a claim from any phone, and get the money wired to your knew bank account, IF you have all your policy numbers and title documents. Same with cars lost in a storm. Katrina was a unique experience, but your car title and some savings bonds might be worth more than a trenching tool in that particular emergency

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Great thoughts, I'm just plain ready to go and retire in the mountains somewhere. Hopefullt sit x will wait until I can get there permanently. if it never occurs I am happy and content to live out a much simplier lifestyle in the mountains enjoying all the true things god has given us.

OT
I'll shameless advertising stunt here, i've created a new thread called Regional Database that i visioned as a collection of information to help people choose their routes and strategies especially if in a foreign territory.
/OT

If it's just yourself, I say keep a two-seat ultralight trike in your garage.
pack it with an extra fuel tank and a bunch of food and you're good to go.





You can also equip these for water landing/takeoff if there's a lake near your mountainous hideaway...




edit add waterboat

[edit on 23-5-2007 by Stale Cracker]

[edit on 23-5-2007 by Stale Cracker]

This is just my curiousity,although there are many good ideas here, why is everyone making plans to bug out at the last minute? Why not prepare now and get situated in a safe place?This is what my family is doing.We are looking for a place to go now,and to stay. I shudder to think how many people will not make it to their "safe place".Because we can only speculate what will happen and what we may encounter, I feel it's best to be prepared long ahead of time.There will be so many who are unprepared,and if they see people driving in their SUV's headed for the hills with a ton of supplies, I can pretty much guarantee you won't make it there intact.Whatever your decision, best of luck to you.And to us all.

I agree whole-heartedly, AC. That's why I'm such an advocate of preparations in place. Unless the threat is somehow both acute and localized to my area, I think "bugging out" only makes people more vulnerable than they would have been otherwise.

The vast majority of folk live where they do for economic reasons. Thus, leaving now means a harder time until the coming badness begins.

My family and I took a middle course, and moved out of the big dirty several years ago. Our new home is a compromise. Less commute and less opportunity, but also less crime and more of a sense of community. A town that rolls up the streets at 8 p.m. has fewer choices, but is also less of a target for terrorism.

Meanwhile, we have a home that seems solid, in a great location for both lifestyle and endurance of hard times. Here we can do just about whatever we want as far as firearms possession and adding features to our home without getting permission from a zoning board or inspector.

I see "bugging out" as an extreme measure, viable only if my area just became the worst place in North America. Other than that, I'm staying put and rebuilding right here.

But other folks are in different stages in life. A single guy away at college doesn't have much of a support structure in the middle of a national crisis; likewise people whose jobs will evaporate in an economic collapse. If I was in Newark or Chicago, or Dallas, I'd definitely have a plan in place.

I guess you could say I enacted mine before the trouble really started.

.

If you plan on bugging out a mountain bike will get you where you need to go much faster than walking. 50-60 miles per day off-road is doable, 100 mpd on paved roads. If it is reasonably calm, you can even ride at night on roads to avoid detection or heat if your in the desert/hot climates. You can also get one of those electric motors that can assist you with hills or help you with pulling a small trailer.

dr_strangecraft, in simple form, what all is required to get started with shortwave, and how costly is it?

I live in a rural area, have an even more rural (mountain) 'hide out' close by that is suitable for a small community of rational survivors to live for some time. As my wife and I are not spring chickens, I would be interested in a useful skill that could contribute to the overall benefit of the group in a sit-x.

Edit to add: how much training is required? Thanks in advance for any info.]

[edit on 24-5-2007 by NGC2736]

I really like the ultra light idea. Might be fun. wanted to get one of those anyway. I wonder how quick you can get shot down in an ultralight anyway I totally agree with the above posts. Get out of the city and start a much better way of living. Just hope I can get out before it's too late.