Space Hoax: Coast to Coast

I'm a science freak, but i've always been skeptical about Space Travel (e.g. Moon, Mars).

Scientists agree that space material such as rocks and dust surround the atmosphere. No Spaceship has the ability to manuever around such things and at that speed, rocks the size of a quarter could cause a lot of damage.

No other country believe its possible to travel to the moon. Japan, who we all know is 40 years more advanced in technology, has already stated that its impossible to travel to the moon.

Russia agrees, because they have failed in their efforts also.

So my question is, Can man actually make it to the Moon? Before you answer, think about the visual proof. There is NO visual recording to prove that its possible. 40 some odd years have pass since Armstrong supposedly walked on the moon. Film and Video technology has increased substantially since.

There is no Video Document showing the Start of a flight all the way to the Finish. We simply go from Launch-Cut-Time Lapse-We're in Space.

And the times they tried to make video proof in front of large crowds, the Spaceships explodes
So is this another version of the Tower of Babel? Genesis 11: 1-9
www.biblegateway.com...

If we try to explore the heavens, will we be destroyed?

Originally posted by Judaz_Escariot
Scientists agree that space material such as rocks and dust surround the atmosphere. No Spaceship has the ability to manuever around such things and at that speed, rocks the size of a quarter could cause a lot of damage.

It's not like there's tons of rocks and dust up there. If there were enough to make it too risky for spaceships, how would all those thousands of satellites go on unharmed?

No other country believe its possible to travel to the moon.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to call BS on that one. Unless you can provide some links. If no other Country believes it's possible, then how/why did the ESA send there SMART-1 probe to the moon? Why are China and India planning to send probes? China also plans to send people in the near future as well. Clearly other Countries believe it's possible.

Japan, who we all know is 40 years more advanced in technology, has already stated that its impossible to travel to the moon.

More BS, both on them being 40 years more advanced and about them stating it's impossible to go to the moon (I'd like to see your source of information). Seeing has how they are planning to send a probe to the Moon called SELENE this year. They were also planning one called LUNAR-A, but it was canceled mostly due to some faults with it's thrusters. The seismic penetrators for that probe will be used on a future Russian probe how ever. Japan is even considering possible manned missions sometime in the future.

Russia agrees, because they have failed in their efforts also.

No they do not agree. Only there manned mission to the Moon failed and only because they could not get the N1 rocket to work correctly (although with more funding and time I think it would have worked). They did send many unmanned probes to the Moon and even had several sample returns. They also sent many probes to Mars and Venus as well.

So my question is, Can man actually make it to the Moon? Before you answer, think about the visual proof. There is NO visual recording to prove that its possible.

Umm yes there is. There are tens of thousands of photos from the Apollo missions alone and many many hours of video footage, plus all the photos from the pre-Apollo probes and landers, plus the photos taken by all the Russian probes and rovers. I'd say there is tons of visual proof that we can go to the moon, be it manned or unmanned.

There is no Video Document showing the Start of a flight all the way to the Finish. We simply go from Launch-Cut-Time Lapse-We're in Space.

There was no constant 24/7 coverage of the entire missions, but there rarely is that kind of documentation of any event. So I don't see why you think there should be of Apollo. There are many hours of video though.

And the times they tried to make video proof in front of large crowds, the Spaceships explodes

What are you talking about?

[edit on 16-5-2007 by jra]

Originally posted by Judaz_Escariot

No other country believe its possible to travel to the moon. Japan, who we all know is 40 years more advanced in technology, has already stated that its impossible to travel to the moon.

Russia agrees, because they have failed in their efforts also.

First of all what evidence do you that japan is 40 years more advanced in technology?

And please not just your opinion.

Secondly what about all the probes sent to many of the planets and this solar system. Are they just fakes or hoaxes?

When you start a thread like this and make outrageous claims please provide some evidence so that we can all evaluate it.

Otherwise when you state opinion as fact its like the old saying opinions are just like a@@holes.... and everyone has one.

I like the ahole analogy!!


Anyways I cannot for the life of me understand how the thread starter is a science freak and yet does not believe interplanetary travel is possible(even to the moon!).



[edit on 17-5-2007 by Daedalus3]

Originally posted by Judaz_Escariot
No other country believe its possible to travel to the moon. Japan, who we all know is 40 years more advanced in technology, has already stated that its impossible to travel to the moon.

Russia agrees, because they have failed in their efforts also.

From where are you getting this information (or should I call it disinformation)?

Russia has failed in some of their efforts, but by no means all of there efforts. The Luna 16, 20, and 24 probes have gone to the Moon and returned samples of Lunar Material. They have also sent many other probes to the Moon.

Japan has set a date to have a human habitat at one of the Moon's polar regions by 2024 according to this article on the official Japanese Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA -- the Japanese version of NASA) website.
Link: www.jaxa.jp...
I read elsewhere the year was 2030, but the point is JAXA has never stated that it is impossible to go to the Moon, and they are in fact planning to send humans there within a generation.

[edit on 18-5-2007 by Soylent Green Is People]

JRA, I guess I'm getting my info the opposite place from where you're getting yours. Do you have a link to support your video footage claims from start to finish?

My proof comes from common sense and Naked Science. I'm sure they have their archives to support my claim on their website.

My thing is, WHY is it that EVERYTIME "Space Travel" happens, nobody knows about it until they report 'satellite' footage on your local news?

"Japan is one of the most technologically advanced countries in the world. The tug-of-rope pull between technology and history is amazing. "
googolplex.cuna.org...
-The VERY FIRST link when i typed in 'Japans technology compared to America' but feel free to browse them for more info.

Satellites are in NO WAY close to the moon! They are barely out the atmosphere, but Tower planted around earth make up for the 'satellites' shortcomings (weather and missed signals)

Also Google Search 'Did Russia believe the Americans made it to the moon first?' And the same thing with the SELENE, India, China etc. Will they provide start-to-finish footage, or will it be a George Lucas Edit?
-And you mention photos?
Why are Buzz and Neil on a film set?

Daedalus3, I love 'eh'hole analogies too I am a science nut, but I dont like science that cant be explained or has many loop holes that make people cry "What a Hoax!" You and I both know, Interplanetary Travel for humans will never come...we're still waiting on the hovering cars people said we would have by the millenium. I believe people get Science and Science Fiction mixed up.

Soylent, where are you getting your sources? Russia denies existence of a Space Race, Lunar Material can be nothing more but volcanic rocks from Hawaii, and Japan realize that they're ahead of times, but still to this day, it makes no sense. In the 60's they claim it could be done. Now in 2030, nearly 70 years later, they claim to send 'humans' there? WHY THE DELAY?

I guarantee something will come up. Everytime media covers a Space Travel, something always come up. Like that Lance Bass guy...they covered him from training till it was time to travel...and what do you know...he needed 3 Million Dollars. Once he had the money, something else came up and he had to sign a Confidentiality Agreement...


[edit on 22-5-2007 by Judaz_Escariot]

Originally posted by Judaz_Escariot

I am a science nut, but I dont like science that cant be explained or has many loop holes that make people cry "What a Hoax!" You and I both know, Interplanetary Travel for humans will never come...... I believe people get Science and Science Fiction mixed up.


[edit on 22-5-2007 by Judaz_Escariot]

I thought science nuts like tough problems they can solve. We certainly will not have interplanetary travel if we have already accepted it's impossible.

Originally posted by Judaz_Escariot
JRA, I guess I'm getting my info the opposite place from where you're getting yours. Do you have a link to support your video footage claims from start to finish?

I can't help but mention you never did provide a link for your claims.

Originally posted by Judaz_Escariot
"Japan is one of the most technologically advanced countries in the world. The tug-of-rope pull between technology and history is amazing. "
googolplex.cuna.org...
-The VERY FIRST link when i typed in 'Japans technology compared to America' but feel free to browse them for more info.

I looked over this entire page and found nothing in relation to space travel, so it really isn't relevant to the topic.

Originally posted by Judaz_Escariot
Why are Buzz and Neil on a film set?

Prove to me that this is Buzz and Neil and i'll try and find you a reason why they would be on a film set. But, until you can prove to me that they are who you say they are, i have to assume they're actors on a film set.

Originally posted by Judaz_Escariot
we're still waiting on the hovering cars people said we would have by the millenium. I believe people get Science and Science Fiction mixed up.

I've seen countless television shows on The Science Channel all about how science fiction writers are just as responsible as the scientists and inventors for creating some of the technologies we have today.

Scientists agree that space material such as rocks and dust surround the atmosphere. No Spaceship has the ability to manuever around such things and at that speed, rocks the size of a quarter could cause a lot of damage.

Regarding space rocks flowting in space I am not aware of any asteroid belt betwen earth and moon, space debree objects are small in diameter and I don't think it would cause major damage to the space craft.

Since satelites like pioneer and voiager made it far in space past mars and colected images then it's posible for a craft to travel in space with out sustaining damage.

Your argument is silly, satelites that orbited the moon have snap shots of the moon from close range, satelites that have gone further is space made snap shots of planets like mars, so if space travel by craft is not posible how did they get those photos of mars and other planets?

How would a craft be able to get to take pictures of mars if you insist that no space craft is capable of space flight.


www.astro.uva.nl...

maybe the moon landing was a hoax but not based on your idea because it's silly.

No other country believe its possible to travel to the moon. Japan, who we all know is 40 years more advanced in technology, has already stated that its impossible to travel to the moon.

We have been further away than the moon.

So my question is, Can man actually make it to the Moon? Before you answer, think about the visual proof. There is NO visual recording to prove that its possible. 40 some odd years have pass since Armstrong

If drones can travel deep in space and take pictures from close range of planers with out damaged equiptment then I don't see why it's not posible to go to the moon.


Voyager2 snap shot of jupiter while passing by, all equiptment functioning properly.


Your clames are bougus.


[edit on 22-5-2007 by pepsi78]

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URLed 1rst pic - stretching page

[edit on 22/5/07 by masqua]

Satellites are in NO WAY close to the moon! They are barely out the atmosphere, but Tower planted around earth make up for the 'satellites' shortcomings (weather and missed signals)

maybe you better have a look at the above pictures.

Originally posted by The Cyfre
[

Originally posted by Judaz_Escariot
Why are Buzz and Neil on a film set?

Prove to me that this is Buzz and Neil and i'll try and find you a reason why they would be on a film set. But, until you can prove to me that they are who you say they are, i have to assume they're actors on a film set.

According to this wikipedia article
en.wikipedia.org...
it is a picture of Neil and Buzz, but Judaz_Escariot hasn't proved that this is a movie set...It just looks like some building with a high roof to me -- it could be inside a hanger at one of the NASA facilities. Armstrong and Aldrin spent hours and hours practicing and rehearsing their moon walk, just like todays astronauts practice their space station-building spacewalks in full spacesuits and in a large swimming pool. This photo was taken during one of those moon walk practice sessions.

On top of all that is the fact that this was an official photograph released by NASA...did you ever ask yourself why would NASA release a photo that shows them filming a hoax of the Apollo 11 mission? Answer: Because it isn't a picture of a movie set all all, it's just what you would expect the Astronauts to be doing...Practicing.

[edit on 22-5-2007 by Soylent Green Is People]

Originally posted by Judaz_Escariot
Scientists agree that space material such as rocks and dust surround the atmosphere. No Spaceship has the ability to maneuver around such things and at that speed, rocks the size of a quarter could cause a lot of damage.

There are no rocks or dust surrounding the atmosphere, there is dust in the atmosphere,
but that does'nt effect anything, except peoples allergies.

It is true that if a vessel was moving at an extreme speed, like 5+ PSL (Percent the Speed of Light)
would have the risk of smaller objects that normally would'nt provide a threat becoming so,
but we do not have spacecraft that travel that fast, and beyond that when we do we have
brute force ways of dealing with that (large protective impact shields in the front of the craft)
and will in near future have more sophisticated ways to deal with it via electro-magnetic
shields that extend several kilometers in front of the ship and pushes things out of the way
before the ship hits them.

My thing is, WHY is it that EVERYTIME "Space Travel" happens, nobody knows about it until they report 'satellite' footage on your local news?

I take it you've never seen a shuttle launch or for that matter a normal rocket launch.

In the last year alone there has been extensive coverage of shuttle activity, including
live broadcasts of the Shuttle launch, as well as the pictures from the cameras on the
outside of the shuttle itself that show it's orbital ascent as it goes.

Satellites are in NO WAY close to the moon! They are barely out the atmosphere, but Tower planted around earth make up for the 'satellites' shortcomings (weather and missed signals)

There are many satellites beyond the moon, the various Mars satellites, Cassini,
the New Horizons probe (on it's way to Pluto) and the Voyager probes which themselves are
near the outskirts of our Solar System.

There are many other satellites to that I have not even mentioned, including ones in
orbit around the Sun, others that are en-transit and several orbiting other bodies.

Why are Buzz and Neil on a film set?

It is not a film set, it is a mock lunar equipment testing area, they used it to test the various
instruments before launch and to allow the astronauts to get use to handling the
tools in there space suits in that terrain.

You don't think they'd just launch things without testing them first do you?

Russia denies existence of a Space Race,

Russia, nor any country for that matter has ever denied that space travel is possible or
that there was not a Space Race in the mid-20th century.

In the 60's they claim it could be done. Now in 2030, nearly 70 years later, they claim to send 'humans' there? WHY THE DELAY?

Yes, scientists did say that we could make it to Mars, and indeed we have been able to
for awhile, the problem is that NASA stopped getting funding after the Lunar Landing,
people stopped caring about Space exploration and advancement.

If NASA would have continued getting the funding it had gotten, we would have already
had a Manned Research base on Mars, several bases, and colonies on the Moon and
many orbital habitats.

I guarantee something will come up. Everytime media covers a Space Travel, something always come up. Like that Lance Bass guy...they covered him from training till it was time to travel...and what do you know...he needed 3 Million Dollars. Once he had the money, something else came up and he had to sign a Confidentiality Agreement...

The only reason Lance Bass did not go into orbit is because he did'nt have enough money.

Several 'civilians' have gone into space in the last few years, including the last three who
even stayed on the ISS.



EDIT:
Forgot to add the 'New' in 'New Horizons'.
Added first Q&A.

[edit on 5/22/2007 by iori_komei]

Originally posted by Judaz_Escariot
JRA, I guess I'm getting my info the opposite place from where you're getting yours. Do you have a link to support your video footage claims from start to finish?

I never did claim there was video footage all the way from start to finish. Not 24/7 anyway. But there are still tens of thousands of photos and many many hours of footage.

My thing is, WHY is it that EVERYTIME "Space Travel" happens, nobody knows about it until they report 'satellite' footage on your local news?

Huh? I'm not sure I really understand what you're saying. Are you trying to say that you don't know about any space related activities until you see it on the News? If so, then clearly you're not looking hard enough. It's quite easy to find information on upcoming missions.

-The VERY FIRST link when i typed in 'Japans technology compared to America' but feel free to browse them for more info.

It says "one of the most technologically advanced countries...". And I agree, they are very advanced, but where do you get the idea that they are 40 years more advanced than anyone?

Also Google Search 'Did Russia believe the Americans made it to the moon first?' And the same thing with the SELENE, India, China etc. Will they provide start-to-finish footage, or will it be a George Lucas Edit?

Why do you expect them to provide 24/7 footage of there missions? That's an unreasonable thing to hope for.

Why are Buzz and Neil on a film set?

That's not a film set. They're training. You can find lots of photos like this of the astronauts training on Earth from official NASA archives.

I am a science nut, but I dont like science that cant be explained or has many loop holes that make people cry "What a Hoax!"

Just because you may have trouble understanding it, doesn't mean it's a hoax. Sometimes you just have to take the time to try to read and learn more about the subject.

Russia denies existence of a Space Race

They originally denied that they were trying to get a Man on the Moon, due to the fact that there N1 rocket kept blowing up. They were trying to save face by denying it. But we know that they were trying to get a Man to the Moon, they even had plans for a Lunar base up until the 80's. Russia doesn't deny it anymore, as there is a lot of information about the former USSR space program available now.

They never denied all the probes they sent to the Moon, or to Venus and Mars however.

Lunar Material can be nothing more but volcanic rocks from Hawaii

Yeah, so all those geologists all over the world, who have studied the samples can't tell that they're volcanic rock? Give me a break. Volcanic rocks do not contain the same characteristics that Lunar rocks do. Volcanic rocks are not pitted with micro meteorite impacts, they have not been formed under 1/6th gravity, they have not been exposed to long periods of solar radiation. Lunar rocks are also 100% devoid of any water. Something you won't find on Earth rocks as far as I'm aware.

In the 60's they claim it could be done. Now in 2030, nearly 70 years later, they claim to send 'humans' there? WHY THE DELAY?

It costs a lot of money to go to the Moon, there is also a large public disinterest in returning as well, because of the high costs. That's basically the main reason why we haven't gone back.

I guarantee something will come up. Everytime media covers a Space Travel, something always come up.

I've seen plenty of media coverage of space related things and "something" doesn't always come up...

Like that Lance Bass guy...they covered him from training till it was time to travel...and what do you know...he needed 3 Million Dollars. Once he had the money, something else came up and he had to sign a Confidentiality Agreement...

But there have been at 4 other space tourists to the ISS, and a 5th one who went up in April of this year, so explain that one then. Also Lance didn't didn't have the money to go, that was the problem.

[edit on 22-5-2007 by jra]

No other country believe its possible to travel to the moon.

China does. It announced a moon venture in the near future.

Japan, who we all know is 40 years more advanced in technology, has already stated that its impossible to travel to the moon.

They're not in a good position on the Earth do do a launch, but they're launching a moon probe.

There is no Video Document showing the Start of a flight all the way to the Finish. We simply go from Launch-Cut-Time Lapse-We're in Space.

During the earliest flights, there was 24/7 coverage of any form of space travel. Fred T's dad and I were among the millions who sat up and slept in front of the tv in order to not miss a single second of it.

You might not have seen it... but WE did.

And the times they tried to make video proof in front of large crowds, the Spaceships explodes

Got a source for that?

For the record, my parents lived in Florida and watched launches. I've seen one personally. So everyone in Florida would be WELL aware of explosions.

If no one has been to the moon then how did this get there?

a couple of Laser Ranging Retro reflectors have been left there, any country in the world (who has the technology and inclination to accurately fire laser pulses to the moon and time them) can measure the distance between Earth and the Moon.

They were supposedly placed by hand, but even if they weren’t - they were still PLACED SOMEHOW. Kinda blows the original posters theory out of the water me thinks!

p.s. I don't think the official line is whole honest truth - but is it ever?

reply to post by Judaz_Escariot



I fully aggree. All this "space race of the cold war era" was in reality the race of creating misinformation about space travel. All these Gagarins, Geminis, Mercuries etc, the further we go back in time the video evidence we have at hand completely peters out. It is disgusting to think that some morons out there still believe USSR could have had the technology to send Yuri G into space in 1961 but not install a camera into his cannonballesque spacecraft that could record a proper footage of this. What a joke. And what of the first space-walk footage dated 1965? There isn't even a moment where we see this cosmo-nut's body floating in space in its entirety. It's just a cheap illusion created by tilting a camera sideways to the backdrop of something that could look like a planet and making it look like a space walk by simply not showing the feet of the actor.. Disgraceful. Not that any of the US imitations of these movies look much more realistic or convincing. In fact in the Appaller movies there are tons of glaring scientific and cinematic mistakes that pretty much constitute 100% proof that they were fake. Like the A-15 hammer and the "feather" experiment. Turns out either that hammer was dropped on earth and showed in half speed or Astro-dork Scott was just 115 cm tall. What a joke.

I've read a little of the hoax arguments. The lunar reflectors may have been placed there by the RANGER crafts and the Lunakhod 1. The RANGER 6&8 crafts both landed in the Mare Tranquillitatis for Apollo 11. The RANGER 7 for the Apollo 14 and Russia's' Lunakhod1 in the Mare Imbrium for Apollo 15. The RANGERs were meant to withstand a crash landing and to send back data.

Originally posted by TamtammyMacx
I've read a little of the hoax arguments. The lunar reflectors may have been placed there by the RANGER crafts and the Lunakhod 1. The RANGER 6&8 crafts both landed in the Mare Tranquillitatis for Apollo 11. The RANGERs were meant to withstand a crash landing and to send back data.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
At no point does it say anything about rangers being designed to withstand lunar impact at several kilometers per second.

There were variations I believe RANGER 4 and RANGER 3 were variations that had retrorockets ect. for decent. Who really knows what configurations actually went. Some were lost and remained in heliocentric orbit, I guess. That would have been great for communications.


One of the many lunar experiments was to study radar reflectivity.?

[edit on 8-2-2009 by TamtammyMacx]

Originally posted by TamtammyMacx
There were variations I believe RANGER 4 and RANGER 3 were variations that had retrorockets ect. for decent.

One of the many lunar experiments was to study radar reflectivity.?

Ranger 3's flight plan called for lunar impact. The retrorocket was supposed to make it somewhat survivable for a secondary balsa wood covered seismometer, but since it was designed to bounce until it came to a rest there's no way it could have accurately deployed a retroreflector. As you alluded to, Ranger 3 missed, and ranger 4 malfunctioned and hit the lunar far side instead. Neither is even close to accounting for the apollo retroreflector locations. My understanding is that radar reflectivity was to be studied just prior to impact, not from the surface.